I'm newer to 5e and I'm playing a Forge Cleric. Likely going to hit level 4 in the next 2-3 sessions. Currently have Wisdom of 16 (+3) and have been told by one of the other players with a lot more experience that taking the ASI to get Wisdom from +3 to +4 is the smartest play. That said, I mostly use my spells for cure wounds with the occasional guiding bolt thrown in for good measure. I recognize it also impacts several skill checks and passive perception.
I was leaning towards getting the Heavy Armour Master Feat instead as it will give me +1 in strength (gets my character's strength high enough to wear plate armour. Currently wearing chain mail so that will be a +2 to AC once I can afford it) and immediately reduce damage by -3 from non-magical melee attacks which could come in clutch, especially at the lower levels.
I feel like the Feat in this case would be more beneficial long term than increasing my wisdom by +2.
I would appreciate any additional opinions in case it is clearly better to increase wisdom from 16 to 18.
So I recommend looking at the new spells you will be casting at 5th and 7th (3rd and 4th level spells). Generally there will be a lot more saving throw based spells and make more use of your spellcasting stat. When you need to banish something you really want it to fail its save.
As a Forge Cleric though Armor is kind of your thing, so HAM is a nice choice character wise. As you go up in levels it becomes less important. It will really depend on your DM. If thy continue to throw low level mobs at you then it is extremely valuable. If not in a few levels it won't be that valuable.
If you're wanting to bank on plate, take a look at the cost and the rate at which you're earning things, and probably also talk with your DM about future reward expectations, to see if it seems feasible that you'd earn enough gold before hitting 8th level to be able to buy plate before your next ASI. I'd call it unlikely, but I don't know your setup. Also, if you're mostly using your spells for healing, are you not attacking or are you doing ranged or melee? If melee, getting your STR up to 16 and not just a +1 will improve your melee attacks overall. I'm not saying don't take HAM, I'm just trying to throw in some additional factors to consider to see how much benefit you'll get out of it now vs later.
to clarify, most of the spells I am casting are cure wounds and the occasional guiding bolt. Otherwise I am typical in melee battle with my mace. That said at Level 4 I will get an offensive cantrip (probably Toll the Dead).
As a general rule, ASIs will give a larger increase in your overall power while feats will be more interesting. I tend to prefer feats to ASIs because increasing your power faster typically only means the enemies are stronger while taking feats changes what you can actually do.
I prefer ASI. Missing sucks. ASI helps you to miss less and hit harder. especially on a caster, I would nearly always try to get my primary casting stat to 20 before I worry about feats.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Take whatever feels cooler to you. (And don’t worry about “affording” plate armor. By the time you can afford it, you will have likely found magic armor.)
Unfortunately the -3 is kinda useless by around 6thish level, so you won’t get a lot out of that. Like Lunali said, the higher, faster ability scores just means the DM will throw deadlier stuff at you. It’s an illusion supported by the illusion of CR. So if you want to be a never missing, hard-hitting bad apple, that just means monster AC, Saves and DCs go up too. But if you take a feat like Crusher for example, it raises your Str by 1 (for your prerequisite), and it lets you knock blokes about while you konk ‘em on the head. (Or piercer/slasher, whatever your weapon style.) Or the Skill Expert feat. That’s also a chicken dinner right there.
Another alternative is to take a feat that gives you a +1 Wis right now and does something cool for you. Like maybe Fey/Shadow Touched, or Skill Expert, or Observant. Observant is a great feat, especially tacked on top of a high Wis score means even if you’re not not proficient in either Perception or Investigation, your Passives will be as if you have permanent advantage, only it’ll still stack with advantage too. And if you are proficient you’ll notice a cricket fart on a breezy day from 5 feet away, or those Orcs attempting to sneak up on you from far enough away to come up with a pithy 1-liner about bathing or attacking from downwind. Then, next ASI you can take a +1 Wis and a +1 Str and get both the +4 and the Str requirement. (Because it’ll be a while if you expect to have to shell out the gp for it.)
If the rest of the party are all getting much more powerful you will be getting more powerful bad guys thrown at you anyway, are the rest of the party building optimised characters or not.
My clerics have tended to use cantrips rather than weapons, so they are not dependent on too many abilities, if you are going to take toll the dead will you be going that way?
Speak to your dm about expectations of items, many DMs treat plate like a magic item, so if you can not wear plate you might be able to get +1 chain at a similar level.
I’d go with the asi. Makes your spells work better, and you get to prepare one more per day. Also, as you level, you’ll find you have access to more powerful spells, and more offensive spells, and have more spell slots, and often will end up casting more than you melee. And as sposta said the benefits of HAM taper off starting at level 6, by level 10, it almost never comes up (lots of enemies will have attacks that bypass it, although that will be campaign dependent).
The choice between feats and ASIs in my opinion really depend on how high a level you're expecting to reach in the campaign.
It's highly unlikely it'll go to 20, more likely 12ish which means you'll typically get 3 ASI/feats (4 for Rogues, 5 for fighters, +1 for Variant Human). Feats tend to offer bigger gains the earlier you get them so my gut says to grab a feat at level 4 and then use ASIs with the later advances.
If you're making a build that needs two feats, like a PAM GWM barbarian/fighter/paladin, I'd take the variant human so it comes online at level 4.
Varies I went with +2 Wisdom and got advised about the Warcaster Feat which is useful.
Been thinking about this and figured I should have gone with Skilled instead to add 3 skill proficiencies however the Wisdom boost means an extra spell, increase to spell attack, wisdom skills and saves.
In a regular group going Skilled at 4th and then multiclassing to Ranger to gain the Stealth skill using Tasha's to gain Skill Expertise in the Survival skill looks very interesting.
However I went with Wisdom as the other multi-class option of Fey Warlock got cut off when another player revealed they were going Hexblade and then tried to claim the character's didn't know about it only if the DM had bothered to read the character sheet's properly would have realised the Cleric is familiar with the Feywild and the Shadowfell so dropping a Shadowfell weapon and try to claim the Cleric wouldn't notice...
Perhaps had he asked for an Arcane check he might have been able to cover up that mistake sorry for going off topic, but there's plenty of options has anything caught your eye?
I'm newer to 5e and I'm playing a Forge Cleric. Likely going to hit level 4 in the next 2-3 sessions. Currently have Wisdom of 16 (+3) and have been told by one of the other players with a lot more experience that taking the ASI to get Wisdom from +3 to +4 is the smartest play. That said, I mostly use my spells for cure wounds with the occasional guiding bolt thrown in for good measure. I recognize it also impacts several skill checks and passive perception.
I was leaning towards getting the Heavy Armour Master Feat instead as it will give me +1 in strength (gets my character's strength high enough to wear plate armour. Currently wearing chain mail so that will be a +2 to AC once I can afford it) and immediately reduce damage by -3 from non-magical melee attacks which could come in clutch, especially at the lower levels.
I feel like the Feat in this case would be more beneficial long term than increasing my wisdom by +2.
I would appreciate any additional opinions in case it is clearly better to increase wisdom from 16 to 18.
Thank you.
So I recommend looking at the new spells you will be casting at 5th and 7th (3rd and 4th level spells). Generally there will be a lot more saving throw based spells and make more use of your spellcasting stat. When you need to banish something you really want it to fail its save.
As a Forge Cleric though Armor is kind of your thing, so HAM is a nice choice character wise. As you go up in levels it becomes less important. It will really depend on your DM. If thy continue to throw low level mobs at you then it is extremely valuable. If not in a few levels it won't be that valuable.
If you're wanting to bank on plate, take a look at the cost and the rate at which you're earning things, and probably also talk with your DM about future reward expectations, to see if it seems feasible that you'd earn enough gold before hitting 8th level to be able to buy plate before your next ASI. I'd call it unlikely, but I don't know your setup. Also, if you're mostly using your spells for healing, are you not attacking or are you doing ranged or melee? If melee, getting your STR up to 16 and not just a +1 will improve your melee attacks overall. I'm not saying don't take HAM, I'm just trying to throw in some additional factors to consider to see how much benefit you'll get out of it now vs later.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Hi Pocketmouse.
to clarify, most of the spells I am casting are cure wounds and the occasional guiding bolt. Otherwise I am typical in melee battle with my mace. That said at Level 4 I will get an offensive cantrip (probably Toll the Dead).
As a general rule, ASIs will give a larger increase in your overall power while feats will be more interesting. I tend to prefer feats to ASIs because increasing your power faster typically only means the enemies are stronger while taking feats changes what you can actually do.
I prefer ASI. Missing sucks. ASI helps you to miss less and hit harder. especially on a caster, I would nearly always try to get my primary casting stat to 20 before I worry about feats.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Take whatever feels cooler to you. (And don’t worry about “affording” plate armor. By the time you can afford it, you will have likely found magic armor.)
Unfortunately the -3 is kinda useless by around 6thish level, so you won’t get a lot out of that. Like Lunali said, the higher, faster ability scores just means the DM will throw deadlier stuff at you. It’s an illusion supported by the illusion of CR. So if you want to be a never missing, hard-hitting bad apple, that just means monster AC, Saves and DCs go up too. But if you take a feat like Crusher for example, it raises your Str by 1 (for your prerequisite), and it lets you knock blokes about while you konk ‘em on the head. (Or piercer/slasher, whatever your weapon style.) Or the Skill Expert feat. That’s also a chicken dinner right there.
Another alternative is to take a feat that gives you a +1 Wis right now and does something cool for you. Like maybe Fey/Shadow Touched, or Skill Expert, or Observant. Observant is a great feat, especially tacked on top of a high Wis score means even if you’re not not proficient in either Perception or Investigation, your Passives will be as if you have permanent advantage, only it’ll still stack with advantage too. And if you are proficient you’ll notice a cricket fart on a breezy day from 5 feet away, or those Orcs attempting to sneak up on you from far enough away to come up with a pithy 1-liner about bathing or attacking from downwind. Then, next ASI you can take a +1 Wis and a +1 Str and get both the +4 and the Str requirement. (Because it’ll be a while if you expect to have to shell out the gp for it.)
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If the rest of the party are all getting much more powerful you will be getting more powerful bad guys thrown at you anyway, are the rest of the party building optimised characters or not.
My clerics have tended to use cantrips rather than weapons, so they are not dependent on too many abilities, if you are going to take toll the dead will you be going that way?
Speak to your dm about expectations of items, many DMs treat plate like a magic item, so if you can not wear plate you might be able to get +1 chain at a similar level.
I’d go with the asi. Makes your spells work better, and you get to prepare one more per day.
Also, as you level, you’ll find you have access to more powerful spells, and more offensive spells, and have more spell slots, and often will end up casting more than you melee.
And as sposta said the benefits of HAM taper off starting at level 6, by level 10, it almost never comes up (lots of enemies will have attacks that bypass it, although that will be campaign dependent).
The choice between feats and ASIs in my opinion really depend on how high a level you're expecting to reach in the campaign.
It's highly unlikely it'll go to 20, more likely 12ish which means you'll typically get 3 ASI/feats (4 for Rogues, 5 for fighters, +1 for Variant Human). Feats tend to offer bigger gains the earlier you get them so my gut says to grab a feat at level 4 and then use ASIs with the later advances.
If you're making a build that needs two feats, like a PAM GWM barbarian/fighter/paladin, I'd take the variant human so it comes online at level 4.
Varies I went with +2 Wisdom and got advised about the Warcaster Feat which is useful.
Been thinking about this and figured I should have gone with Skilled instead to add 3 skill proficiencies however the Wisdom boost means an extra spell, increase to spell attack, wisdom skills and saves.
In a regular group going Skilled at 4th and then multiclassing to Ranger to gain the Stealth skill using Tasha's to gain Skill Expertise in the Survival skill looks very interesting.
However I went with Wisdom as the other multi-class option of Fey Warlock got cut off when another player revealed they were going Hexblade and then tried to claim the character's didn't know about it only if the DM had bothered to read the character sheet's properly would have realised the Cleric is familiar with the Feywild and the Shadowfell so dropping a Shadowfell weapon and try to claim the Cleric wouldn't notice...
Perhaps had he asked for an Arcane check he might have been able to cover up that mistake sorry for going off topic, but there's plenty of options has anything caught your eye?
If you using a shield, then War caster is the way to go.
8th lvl - I would go Magic Initiate - Booming blade, Blade Ward, and either Shield or Find Familiar
12lvl - ASI Wis