This shows the total healing from round 1-10 at spell level 2-9, the base healing and then the base healing + Disciple of Life and the total for a party of 5. As you can see at level 2 the base healing is 35hp per person (175hp total for a party of 5) or with Disciple of Life 75hp per person (375hp total for a party of 5). At 4th level with Disciple or 5th without, this spell does more healing then the 9th level spell Mass Heal. You would never need to even use this at 9th level with or without Disciple as you average adventurer doesn’t even have 285-395 hp, even at level 20.
I know people mostly think about this as an out of combat spell, but you can move it 30ft per turn as a bonus action, and any friendly creature it sweeps past gets healed that round so as long as your front liners stay within 30ft they can all get healed every round of combat.
A Druid or to a lesser extent Ranger with a single level dip of Life Cleric is easily the best healer in the game.
That's not how the spell works, and it's a good thing because the spell is already ridiculously broken. A creature is only eligible to be healed by Healing Spirit when the creature moves into the spirit's space, not the other way around.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
This is exactly why I don't think giving Goodberry the Disciple of Life buff isn't a problem. 40HP for a level 1 spell slot which is barely useful in combat vs 175-375 for a level 2 spell slot which is quite useful in combat.
As a few other said, you can't just move it around to everyone, but if you put it adjacent to an enemy with 3 of your melee fighters there they can move around him and all get the healing. Or keep it at the back ranks so people can disengage and heal up if things get rough. You can position it in a way where your whole party can easily move across it each turn - even if they provoke an opportunity attack, they're getting healed for "free" at 5-10HP, they can babysit there while the net result is positive and you can give them some other form of healing if it's serious. If they go down, just move the spirit over their body and they come back up. Meanwhile your team can jog over the corpse and recover.
This shows the total healing from round 1-10 at spell level 2-9, the base healing and then the base healing + Disciple of Life and the total for a party of 5. As you can see at level 2 the base healing is 35hp per person (175hp total for a party of 5) or with Disciple of Life 75hp per person (375hp total for a party of 5). At 4th level with Disciple or 5th without, this spell does more healing then the 9th level spell Mass Heal. You would never need to even use this at 9th level with or without Disciple as you average adventurer doesn’t even have 285-395 hp, even at level 20.
I know people mostly think about this as an out of combat spell, but you can move it 30ft per turn as a bonus action, and any friendly creature it sweeps past gets healed that round so as long as your front liners stay within 30ft they can all get healed every round of combat.
A Druid or to a lesser extent Ranger with a single level dip of Life Cleric is easily the best healer in the game.
That's not how the spell works, and it's a good thing because the spell is already ridiculously broken. A creature is only eligible to be healed by Healing Spirit when the creature moves into the spirit's space, not the other way around.
I wasn't aware there was a Healing Spirit thread, i was simply having a conversation and the spell was mentioned. If a mod wants to move that post over go for it.
As for the spell, it can be argued as to if the other way would work or not. when they did a spell spotlight article it included the following..."Healing spirit is a healing spell potent enough to be worth using in combat. It only requires a bonus action to cast, and, with some clever positioning, can restore 1d6 hit points to each of your allies each turn."
Sure, it could be the idea that they pass through the space, or it could be that you sweep. In combat you are likely only going to have one or two people in need of healing for a full minute. By and large it is really mostly useful outside of combat - essentially with this spell as long as you survive you are going to be back up to 100%
This is exactly why I don't think giving Goodberry the Disciple of Life buff isn't a problem. 40HP for a level 1 spell slot which is barely useful in combat vs 175-375 for a level 2 spell slot which is quite useful in combat.
As a few other said, you can't just move it around to everyone, but if you put it adjacent to an enemy with 3 of your melee fighters there they can move around him and all get the healing. Or keep it at the back ranks so people can disengage and heal up if things get rough. You can position it in a way where your whole party can easily move across it each turn - even if they provoke an opportunity attack, they're getting healed for "free" at 5-10HP, they can babysit there while the net result is positive and you can give them some other form of healing if it's serious. If they go down, just move the spirit over their body and they come back up. Meanwhile your team can jog over the corpse and recover.
The major difference is that a) Goodberry is not a healing spell and b) each berry last 24 hours. So before you go to bed for the night you can burn every spell slot you have on Goodberry. Assuming an average of 4 unused spell slots that is 160hp worth of out of combat healing you have for the day that cost you nothing (assuming you allow your players to eat handfuls of berries that provide 24 hours worth of nourishment, again something I would not allow)
But as always, if your DM is ok with it, go for it. I don't care if people are doing this, great, is it fun for them - cool, glad people are coming up with ways to have fun, I am simply stating my opinion that is shouldn't work, but as this is a game with magic - if you want to say it works then roll with it. To argue that, well this other thing that is totally broken works, so this should work too is a nonsense argument.
"Rogues only get sneak attack with a finesse or ranged weapon, but fighters can use any weapon, therefore my Rogue should get sneak attack with a club." One thing has nothing to do with the other, but if you want to houserule that sneak attack works with a club because it fits the character that person is playing, who cares, let it work, but don't try to justify WHY it works by making unrelated comparisons.
Why I don't get is why this has 4 pages of arguing over "is this OP"?
There aren't 4 pages of "I don't allow someone to take Polearm Master and Sentinel". Because it's a good combination, works, and is effective. There also aren't pages of people banning Sorcidins, Palilocks, Barlocks, and Assassin/Gloom Stalkers because they are OP.
A level of Life Cleric is very effective for a Druid or visa-v. As is a Life: Cleric taking Magic Initiate: Druid.
Goodberry is intended to provide healing. Goodberry is intended to provide sustenance. That sustenance isn't intended to be a malus for utilizing the healing properties.
It is the GMs game and they can change the rules if they want to, but this is more equivalent to banning Rapiers because rogues shouldn't get a 1d8 damage weapon. This isn't a loophole or exploit. This is works as intended. It's also the Player's right to tell the GM they think their opinion on it is horse hocky if they do.
Why I don't get is why this has 4 pages of arguing over "is this OP"?
There aren't 4 pages of "I don't allow someone to take Polearm Master and Sentinel". Because it's a good combination, works, and is effective. There also aren't pages of people banning Sorcidins, Palilocks, Barlocks, and Assassin/Gloom Stalkers because they are OP.
A level of Life Cleric is very effective for a Druid or visa-v. As is a Life: Cleric taking Magic Initiate: Druid.
Goodberry is intended to provide healing. Goodberry is intended to provide sustenance. That sustenance isn't intended to be a malus for utilizing the healing properties.
It is the GMs game and they can change the rules if they want to, but this is more equivalent to banning Rapiers because rogues shouldn't get a 1d8 damage weapon. This isn't a loophole or exploit. This is works as intended. It's also the Player's right to tell the GM they think their opinion on it is horse hocky if they do.
lol, welcome to the internet, where 4 pages over nonsense is a staple.
I don't think it is OP.
"Goodberry is intended to provide healing. Goodberry is intended to provide sustenance. That sustenance isn't intended to be a malus for utilizing the healing properties."
I would disagree with this statement on its foundation. I think this is where the major disagreement really comes in. I have NEVER considered goodberry to be a healing spell. It is a spell designed to allow a ranger/druid to keep the party alive without rations in a harsh environment where foraging is difficult or impossible. The 1hp of healing the berry provides is basically a throw away line that has been more akin to fluff in my view then the notion that - you can use this as a "healing spell". If this were truly designed to be a healing spell you know what you could do with it - you could upcast it, but you know what you can't do with it? Gain ANY benefit using a spell slot above 1st.
The fact that is has 0 upcast benefit should make it really clear that this is not a healing spell, it is a utility spell that people have tried to distort into a healing spell, but it isn't and it never will be.
I also think taking a dip might be viable, but taking magic initiate Goodberry would be a complete waste. You are going to take a feat to be able to get 1 40hp heal per day? Unless of course you are taking it for the utility that it is actually designed for, which is not starving to death, in which case the hp it provides is meaningless.
I wasn't aware there was a Healing Spirit thread, i was simply having a conversation and the spell was mentioned. If a mod wants to move that post over go for it.
As for the spell, it can be argued as to if the other way would work or not.
No prob dude, I'm just going to say this and then leave it alone:
It cannot be argued one way or another. The spell is explicit in that healing is only triggered when a creaturemoves into the spirit's space, or when a creature starts their turn in the spirit's space. There is absolutely no "sweeping" allowed under the spell's description. You are free to house rule it in a private game however you like, yet the RAW on that spell is 100% clear.
Anyway, back to Goodberry: Disciple of Life works with it as intended. Everything I've seen from Crawford & Co. indicates they have no issues with how it works.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I wasn't aware there was a Healing Spirit thread, i was simply having a conversation and the spell was mentioned. If a mod wants to move that post over go for it.
As for the spell, it can be argued as to if the other way would work or not.
No prob dude, I'm just going to say this and then leave it alone:
It cannot be argued one way or another. The spell is explicit in that healing is only triggered when a creaturemoves into the spirit's space, or when a creature starts their turn in the spirit's space. There is absolutely no "sweeping" allowed under the spell's description. You are free to house rule it in a private game however you like, yet the RAW on that spell is 100% clear.
Anyway, back to Goodberry: Disciple of Life works with it as intended. Everything I've seen from Crawford & Co. indicates they have no issues with how it works.
Yeah, looking over the language I would agree, but I also would allow players to try it and see how it works, if after testing it proves too strong I would remove that capability.
as for the other, I have already addressed my feelings on the issue earlier in the thread and have nothing more to add that I haven’t already said.
I would also add, that the "Up to ten" statement, in and of itself, would be an indication of a 1d10 roll to see how many you get. I know that it doesn't explicitly state it, however if you were getting ten berries each and every time, wouldn't the description be written minus the "up to" ?
No, 'up to ten' means you create as many as you want, from one to ten. Not random, it's your choice. Can't think of any situations where you'd really want to create less than 10, but if for whatever reason you want to, you can.
As written, Goodberries + Life Domain should probably work in the powerful way the OP suggests. However, as with absolutely every-bloody-thing in the game, if the DM thinks it's overpowered, broken, or inappropriate for any reason, he is empowered (if not obligated) to change it.
My PCs will learn the hard way, but I plan on doing the following for mild yet potentially very entertaining consequences. IMO, these berries are highly potent, sooo...
Roll 3d4 to determine how many berries you create to maximum of 10. If more than one berry is consumed before a long rest, roll a DC12 CON save. On a failed save, you have disadvantage on DEX, CON & CHA ability checks for an hour. Any critical failures while under this effect have very urgent and likely embarrassing results.
Uh... AaronWho.... were those meant to go into the Healing Spirit thread? Because this is the Goodberry thread....
That's not how the spell works, and it's a good thing because the spell is already ridiculously broken. A creature is only eligible to be healed by Healing Spirit when the creature moves into the spirit's space, not the other way around.
[edit]
Yes, this should go to the Healing Spirit thread.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
This is exactly why I don't think giving Goodberry the Disciple of Life buff isn't a problem. 40HP for a level 1 spell slot which is barely useful in combat vs 175-375 for a level 2 spell slot which is quite useful in combat.
As a few other said, you can't just move it around to everyone, but if you put it adjacent to an enemy with 3 of your melee fighters there they can move around him and all get the healing. Or keep it at the back ranks so people can disengage and heal up if things get rough. You can position it in a way where your whole party can easily move across it each turn - even if they provoke an opportunity attack, they're getting healed for "free" at 5-10HP, they can babysit there while the net result is positive and you can give them some other form of healing if it's serious. If they go down, just move the spirit over their body and they come back up. Meanwhile your team can jog over the corpse and recover.
I wasn't aware there was a Healing Spirit thread, i was simply having a conversation and the spell was mentioned. If a mod wants to move that post over go for it.
As for the spell, it can be argued as to if the other way would work or not. when they did a spell spotlight article it included the following..."Healing spirit is a healing spell potent enough to be worth using in combat. It only requires a bonus action to cast, and, with some clever positioning, can restore 1d6 hit points to each of your allies each turn."
Sure, it could be the idea that they pass through the space, or it could be that you sweep. In combat you are likely only going to have one or two people in need of healing for a full minute. By and large it is really mostly useful outside of combat - essentially with this spell as long as you survive you are going to be back up to 100%
The major difference is that a) Goodberry is not a healing spell and b) each berry last 24 hours. So before you go to bed for the night you can burn every spell slot you have on Goodberry. Assuming an average of 4 unused spell slots that is 160hp worth of out of combat healing you have for the day that cost you nothing (assuming you allow your players to eat handfuls of berries that provide 24 hours worth of nourishment, again something I would not allow)
But as always, if your DM is ok with it, go for it. I don't care if people are doing this, great, is it fun for them - cool, glad people are coming up with ways to have fun, I am simply stating my opinion that is shouldn't work, but as this is a game with magic - if you want to say it works then roll with it. To argue that, well this other thing that is totally broken works, so this should work too is a nonsense argument.
"Rogues only get sneak attack with a finesse or ranged weapon, but fighters can use any weapon, therefore my Rogue should get sneak attack with a club." One thing has nothing to do with the other, but if you want to houserule that sneak attack works with a club because it fits the character that person is playing, who cares, let it work, but don't try to justify WHY it works by making unrelated comparisons.
Why I don't get is why this has 4 pages of arguing over "is this OP"?
There aren't 4 pages of "I don't allow someone to take Polearm Master and Sentinel". Because it's a good combination, works, and is effective.
There also aren't pages of people banning Sorcidins, Palilocks, Barlocks, and Assassin/Gloom Stalkers because they are OP.
A level of Life Cleric is very effective for a Druid or visa-v. As is a Life: Cleric taking Magic Initiate: Druid.
Goodberry is intended to provide healing. Goodberry is intended to provide sustenance. That sustenance isn't intended to be a malus for utilizing the healing properties.
It is the GMs game and they can change the rules if they want to, but this is more equivalent to banning Rapiers because rogues shouldn't get a 1d8 damage weapon. This isn't a loophole or exploit. This is works as intended. It's also the Player's right to tell the GM they think their opinion on it is horse hocky if they do.
lol, welcome to the internet, where 4 pages over nonsense is a staple.
I don't think it is OP.
"Goodberry is intended to provide healing. Goodberry is intended to provide sustenance. That sustenance isn't intended to be a malus for utilizing the healing properties."
I would disagree with this statement on its foundation. I think this is where the major disagreement really comes in. I have NEVER considered goodberry to be a healing spell. It is a spell designed to allow a ranger/druid to keep the party alive without rations in a harsh environment where foraging is difficult or impossible. The 1hp of healing the berry provides is basically a throw away line that has been more akin to fluff in my view then the notion that - you can use this as a "healing spell". If this were truly designed to be a healing spell you know what you could do with it - you could upcast it, but you know what you can't do with it? Gain ANY benefit using a spell slot above 1st.
The fact that is has 0 upcast benefit should make it really clear that this is not a healing spell, it is a utility spell that people have tried to distort into a healing spell, but it isn't and it never will be.
I also think taking a dip might be viable, but taking magic initiate Goodberry would be a complete waste. You are going to take a feat to be able to get 1 40hp heal per day? Unless of course you are taking it for the utility that it is actually designed for, which is not starving to death, in which case the hp it provides is meaningless.
No prob dude, I'm just going to say this and then leave it alone:
It cannot be argued one way or another. The spell is explicit in that healing is only triggered when a creature moves into the spirit's space, or when a creature starts their turn in the spirit's space. There is absolutely no "sweeping" allowed under the spell's description. You are free to house rule it in a private game however you like, yet the RAW on that spell is 100% clear.
Anyway, back to Goodberry: Disciple of Life works with it as intended. Everything I've seen from Crawford & Co. indicates they have no issues with how it works.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Yeah, looking over the language I would agree, but I also would allow players to try it and see how it works, if after testing it proves too strong I would remove that capability.
as for the other, I have already addressed my feelings on the issue earlier in the thread and have nothing more to add that I haven’t already said.
No, 'up to ten' means you create as many as you want, from one to ten. Not random, it's your choice. Can't think of any situations where you'd really want to create less than 10, but if for whatever reason you want to, you can.
As written, Goodberries + Life Domain should probably work in the powerful way the OP suggests. However, as with absolutely every-bloody-thing in the game, if the DM thinks it's overpowered, broken, or inappropriate for any reason, he is empowered (if not obligated) to change it.
My PCs will learn the hard way, but I plan on doing the following for mild yet potentially very entertaining consequences. IMO, these berries are highly potent, sooo...
Roll 3d4 to determine how many berries you create to maximum of 10. If more than one berry is consumed before a long rest, roll a DC12 CON save. On a failed save, you have disadvantage on DEX, CON & CHA ability checks for an hour. Any critical failures while under this effect have very urgent and likely embarrassing results.
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