I'm currently playing a Lvl 4 Scout / Lvl 1 Druid, and I'm going to level up Druid next time to be Artic Circle of the Land. With my bonus cantrip, I might go for Infestation (I've got Mold Earth and Thorn Whip so far).
I can see how good Guidance and Produce Flame are but they don't sound that fun. I like the flavour of different insects being caused by Infestation and it's utility use - perhaps our party can pretend to be an extermination squad to gain access into a facility by summoning them? I can ruin a banquet? I'm sure there's probably a hundred more uses!
What do you guys think? Have you used this cantrip in interesting ways?
I had an Abyssal tiefling (UA) Wild Magic sorcerer with the UA version, back before XGtE came out. I mostly used it for the forced random movement, but the damage didn't hurt (me). Ah, that was a fun campaign for the one level it lasted.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Infestation isn't meant to be a utility spell. The spell has short range, the insects only last for a moment, and as with all spells people can observe you waving your druidic focus around and chanting mystic words.
The best way to use Infestation is to pair it with another spell that deals damage when the target moves, like Spike Growth.
I know that RAW-wise, it's one of the damaging cantrips whereas Druidcraft, Mold Earth, Shape Water, etc., are primarily utility. However, I've used Mold Earth to bury people before, effectively restraining them - it had a use in combat.
I'm wondering if Infestation can have some utility as well, RAI-wise. How lenient a DM do you need to allow you to summon a bunch of butterflies instead that don't deal damage? Could you specify which insects you summon?
Also, with V, S, M element of spells, the actual delivery can vary from spellcaster to spellcaster. You might scream and wave your arms above your head, or you may whisper and do subtle hand gestures.
I'm wondering if Infestation can have some utility as well, RAI-wise. How lenient a DM do you need to allow you to summon a bunch of butterflies instead that don't deal damage?
Pretty lenient. The spell isn't giving you a choice. It targets a creature, the creature makes a save, and the creature takes damage and moves on a failed save.
Infestation isn't an area effect spell or an open-ended "summon insects" spell. It's a targeted spell with a short-lived (instantaneous) effect.
Could you specify which insects you summon?
Sure, most DMs won't get picky about this as long as they're parasites like the spell points out. A slightly more lenient DM could allow any kind of insect commonly viewed as vermin (as opposed to butterflies, which are typically considered benign and a welcome addition to most outdoor areas.)
Also, with V, S, M element of spells, the actual delivery can vary from spellcaster to spellcaster. You might scream and wave your arms above your head, or you may whisper and do subtle hand gestures.
Spell components are intended to be easily observable; Counterspell relies on noticing these components, for example. If you change things so they're easy to overlook, you've gone way past cosmetic changes. Spellcasting is a crazy powerful ability to have in D&D; the conspicuousness of components (and the need for a free hand in most cases) is one of the few things that keeps spellcasters in check. Heck, ignoring components is part of the Druid's 20th level feature. And if you happen to play with a sorcerer, they probably won't be happy if other players are getting the benefits of Subtle Spell for free either.
All of that goes double for cantrips, since you can just use them as many times as you want, usually without a lengthy casting time. Even a lenient DM might be hesitant to allow scope creep for an at will ability.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not trying to ruin your fun. It's just that Infestation is very clearly a combat spell and there's no way to turn it into something else without ignoring everything the rules say except the part where insects appear. Some DMs might be perfectly happy to allow other uses for the spell, but others would be perfectly within their rights to say "that's not what the spell does." Some DMs might even rule differently depending on the adventure they're running and the people they're playing with! So my recommendation is to just talk to your DM before you blindside them with something that's not in the rules.
I would never blindside my DM and I always discuss anything that may stray from RAW. Fair point about V, S, M, and other relevant spells (e.g. Counterspell). I know it's a combat spell, but I've read a lot how it doesn't seem to hold up against other cantrips and many people wish it did more due to its flavour. What I was exploring in this thread was if anyone had used it slightly differently - with the Rule of Cool allowing some utility to it.
The campaigns I've been in that I've used Infestation (1st - Tiefling and Now- Druid) i use the cantrip as is but for flavor I roll on a chart of insects I created from real life insects/fungi/bacteria and homebrew ones I have found. It goes over great because its just flavor. Its become a running joke where the DM in the second campaign used my first character as a npc and stayed true to her behavior and actions when it came to casting a mound of mutant fire ants to bite at people in the party for disrespecting another npc.
I used fire ants, scarab beetles, deadly fungus, wasps, hexisquitos...etc
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I'm currently playing a Lvl 4 Scout / Lvl 1 Druid, and I'm going to level up Druid next time to be Artic Circle of the Land. With my bonus cantrip, I might go for Infestation (I've got Mold Earth and Thorn Whip so far).
I can see how good Guidance and Produce Flame are but they don't sound that fun. I like the flavour of different insects being caused by Infestation and it's utility use - perhaps our party can pretend to be an extermination squad to gain access into a facility by summoning them? I can ruin a banquet? I'm sure there's probably a hundred more uses!
What do you guys think? Have you used this cantrip in interesting ways?
I had an Abyssal tiefling (UA) Wild Magic sorcerer with the UA version, back before XGtE came out. I mostly used it for the forced random movement, but the damage didn't hurt (me). Ah, that was a fun campaign for the one level it lasted.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Infestation isn't meant to be a utility spell. The spell has short range, the insects only last for a moment, and as with all spells people can observe you waving your druidic focus around and chanting mystic words.
The best way to use Infestation is to pair it with another spell that deals damage when the target moves, like Spike Growth.
I know that RAW-wise, it's one of the damaging cantrips whereas Druidcraft, Mold Earth, Shape Water, etc., are primarily utility. However, I've used Mold Earth to bury people before, effectively restraining them - it had a use in combat.
I'm wondering if Infestation can have some utility as well, RAI-wise. How lenient a DM do you need to allow you to summon a bunch of butterflies instead that don't deal damage? Could you specify which insects you summon?
Also, with V, S, M element of spells, the actual delivery can vary from spellcaster to spellcaster. You might scream and wave your arms above your head, or you may whisper and do subtle hand gestures.
Pretty lenient. The spell isn't giving you a choice. It targets a creature, the creature makes a save, and the creature takes damage and moves on a failed save.
Infestation isn't an area effect spell or an open-ended "summon insects" spell. It's a targeted spell with a short-lived (instantaneous) effect.
Sure, most DMs won't get picky about this as long as they're parasites like the spell points out. A slightly more lenient DM could allow any kind of insect commonly viewed as vermin (as opposed to butterflies, which are typically considered benign and a welcome addition to most outdoor areas.)
Spell components are intended to be easily observable; Counterspell relies on noticing these components, for example. If you change things so they're easy to overlook, you've gone way past cosmetic changes. Spellcasting is a crazy powerful ability to have in D&D; the conspicuousness of components (and the need for a free hand in most cases) is one of the few things that keeps spellcasters in check. Heck, ignoring components is part of the Druid's 20th level feature. And if you happen to play with a sorcerer, they probably won't be happy if other players are getting the benefits of Subtle Spell for free either.
All of that goes double for cantrips, since you can just use them as many times as you want, usually without a lengthy casting time. Even a lenient DM might be hesitant to allow scope creep for an at will ability.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not trying to ruin your fun. It's just that Infestation is very clearly a combat spell and there's no way to turn it into something else without ignoring everything the rules say except the part where insects appear. Some DMs might be perfectly happy to allow other uses for the spell, but others would be perfectly within their rights to say "that's not what the spell does." Some DMs might even rule differently depending on the adventure they're running and the people they're playing with! So my recommendation is to just talk to your DM before you blindside them with something that's not in the rules.
I would never blindside my DM and I always discuss anything that may stray from RAW. Fair point about V, S, M, and other relevant spells (e.g. Counterspell). I know it's a combat spell, but I've read a lot how it doesn't seem to hold up against other cantrips and many people wish it did more due to its flavour. What I was exploring in this thread was if anyone had used it slightly differently - with the Rule of Cool allowing some utility to it.
The campaigns I've been in that I've used Infestation (1st - Tiefling and Now- Druid) i use the cantrip as is but for flavor I roll on a chart of insects I created from real life insects/fungi/bacteria and homebrew ones I have found. It goes over great because its just flavor. Its become a running joke where the DM in the second campaign used my first character as a npc and stayed true to her behavior and actions when it came to casting a mound of mutant fire ants to bite at people in the party for disrespecting another npc.
I used fire ants, scarab beetles, deadly fungus, wasps, hexisquitos...etc