Having been raised on Asterix and Obelix comics, I've always loved druids and I wanted to make a druid like Getafix, a wise magician and potion maker that help their towns and villages. D&D druids are more like wild men living in the woods and hating civilization, that would sooner kill a farmer than help them. So, between that and boring old wild shape, druids in D&D have always been a turn off for me. I'd love to see a proper druid for D&D, rather than civilization hating enviroMENTAL changelings that they are now.
D&D druids (albeit all classes) are whatever you want them to be. The reason you see more wild men that hate civilization is generally a lack of imagination and shallow writing, that doesn't mean you have to be that type of character. The idea of druids being more likely to kill a farmer is highly inaccurate, hyperbole or not. The only mechanic of druids that comes remotely close to shunning civilization is the metal armor/shield restriction, and that is still a weak, lore-based mechanic that can easily be ignored in your world.
"Boring old wild shape." You're going to have to elaborate. It's boring to turn into animals? You don't think it is strong enough or it's too restrictive? Take the right subclass and you can become elementals and unlimited alter self. Level 20 is unlimited wild shape, what exactly is boring to you?
My only problem is with polymorph-like effects being too powerful, but that is an easy homebrew as well by using the temporary hit point alternative.
Don't know anything about Getafix, but every Druid is automatically "wise" with a reliance on Wisdom. They also gain an automatic proficiency in herbalism kits, there are plenty of backgrounds to choose from to give you proficiency in alchemist's tools (you can choose the Hermit and double herbalist proficiency allows you to choose any tool), and they have Insight, Medicine, and Survival as class skills. By your description, Getafix is a run-of-the-mill, level 1 D&D Druid.
The idea of a "proper" druid is highly subjective. In some versions of the Arthurian tales, Merlin was considered a druid and yet he is much more commonly associated with Wizards in pop culture. The Shannara Chronicles have their own idea of druids. Why would your favorite fictional character be a proper druid and someone else's not?
The only mechanic of druids that comes remotely close to shunning civilization is the metal armor/shield restriction, and that is still a weak, lore-based mechanic that can easily be ignored in your world.
I like this particular part about druids. It hearkens back to a more Fae and ancient type of magic that cold iron interferes with. It is one of the few things (besides actual spell lists) that separate them from wizards, but as you pointed out, sometimes in the past distinguishing between what you might call a wizard and a druid hasn't been so easy.
If you dislike wildshape, you should go watch the DDB video with Todd Kenereck and Jeremy Crawford about the new druid UA. Jeremy describes the signature power of historical druids as foresight and the ability to change form as basically a parlor trick. Actually overall, that video does quite a good job at selling the new subclass. I'm not a huge fan of wildshape either, and play a land druid in my current campaign.
I've always seen D&D druids more like hippies than wildmen. They're in tune with nature to a point where they can become part of it, to an extent, through wildshape. The rest of it just comes down to RP. As for wildshape itself, it comes down to your subclass. I've always felt that, unless you choose circle of the moon, a druid's battlefield control is far more valuable and powerful than his ability to turn into a horse, or something.
""Boring old wild shape." You're going to have to elaborate. It's boring to turn into animals?" Shape changing is for some reason beyond me, a core mechanic of Druids and I'm just not that into shape changing - especially when it's wild shape... what is it, once a day for an hour or so? If at least they worked like druids in WoW. I kinda dig how shape changing works for Druids in World of Warcraft. Boomkin FTW!
EDIT: I correct myself: "Starting at 2nd level, you can use your action to magically assume the shape of a beast that you have seen before. You can use this feature twice. You regain expended uses when you finish a short or long rest." Better. But, still no cigar.
"By your description, Getafix is a run-of-the-mill, level 1 D&D Druid. " Funny you should say that because my work around build for this is to start as a first level druid and then multiclass to wizard.
The only mechanic of druids that comes remotely close to shunning civilization is the metal armor/shield restriction, and that is still a weak, lore-based mechanic that can easily be ignored in your world.
I like this particular part about druids. It hearkens back to a more Fae and ancient type of magic that cold iron interferes with. It is one of the few things (besides actual spell lists) that separate them from wizards, but as you pointed out, sometimes in the past distinguishing between what you might call a wizard and a druid hasn't been so easy.
If you dislike wildshape, you should go watch the DDB video with Todd Kenereck and Jeremy Crawford about the new druid UA. Jeremy describes the signature power of historical druids as foresight and the ability to change form as basically a parlor trick. Actually overall, that video does quite a good job at selling the new subclass. I'm not a huge fan of wildshape either, and play a land druid in my current campaign.
They way I see this is that Wild Shape can only handle so much metal, especially ferrous metals. If a druid were wearing metal armor and tried to Wild Shape, they would likely damage the armor and hurt themselves as the wild shape magic can't work with that much metal. Thus, wooden shields get folded in to the magic, while metal ones are dropped. The main exception would be if the druid were to wild shape to something small while wearing metal armor. Then they would have to crawl out.
EDIT: Likewise with gold. Encumbered by the gold you are carrying? Wildshape and watch how much gold drops to the ground...
In my campaign world, this is the reason that most druids don't wear metal armor. It interferes with the core mechanic.
Shape changing is for some reason beyond me, a core mechanic of Druids
Consider the following:
Specializing in a school of magic is for some reason beyond me, a core mechanic of Wizards.
Ki is for some reason beyond me, a core mechanic of Monks.
Demonic pacts are for some reason beyond me, a core mechanic of Warlocks.
The commonality here is that all of these abilities and others are often pulled from obscure references. Not every Wizard in literature history has a familiar, in fact, I can only recall the Disney version of Merlin from The Sword in the Stone off the top of my head having one. Why a Paladin has any special ability whatsoever considering its history could likewise be considered "beyond [someone]" without looking to more obscure literature and inferences. As such, here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:
The Gallizenae
According to classical authors, the Gallizenae (or Gallisenae) were virgin priestesses of the Île de Sein off Pointe du Raz, Finistère, western Brittany.[46] Their existence was first mentioned by the Greek geographer Artemidorus Ephesius and later by the Greek historian Strabo, who wrote that their island was forbidden to men, but the women came to the mainland to meet their husbands. Which deities they honored is unknown.[47] According to Pomponius Mela, the Gallizenae acted as both councilors and practitioners of the healing arts:
"Sena, in the Britannic Sea, opposite the coast of the Osismi, is famous for its oracle of a Gaulish god, whose priestesses, living in the holiness of perpetual virginity, are said to be nine in number. They call them Gallizenae, and they believe them to be endowed with extraordinary gifts to rouse the sea and the wind by their incantations, to turn themselves into whatsoever animal form they may choose, to cure diseases which among others are incurable, to know what is to come and to foretell it. They are, however; devoted to the service of voyagers only who have set out on no other errand than to consult them
Here is another noteworthy line from the same article:
In Irish-language literature, the druids — draoithe, plural of draoi— are sorcerers with supernatural powers, who are respected in society, particularly for their ability to perform divination. The Dictionary of the Irish Language defines druí (which has numerous variant forms, including draoi) as 'magician, wizard or diviner'.[70] In the literature the druids cast spells and turn people into animals or stones, or curse peoples’ crops to be blighted.
and I'm just not that into shape changing - especially when it's wild shape... what is it, once a day for an hour or so? If at least they worked like druids in WoW. I kinda dig how shape changing works for Druids in World of Warcraft. Boomkin FTW!
EDIT: I correct myself: "Starting at 2nd level, you can use your action to magically assume the shape of a beast that you have seen before. You can use this feature twice. You regain expended uses when you finish a short or long rest." Better. But, still no cigar.
Again, you get infinite wild shape at level 20. It's hard to tell what your real problem is. You don't like shapechanging but you like it when you can do it all the time? There are important mechanical reasons why you have limited wild shapes, it is just the nature of a TTRPG vs. an MMORPG. There is a lot to unwrap on why this is vs. having an ability like the Changeling's Change Appearance feature but for animals, which I admit would be cool but problematic in certain respects from a gaming perspective.
"By your description, Getafix is a run-of-the-mill, level 1 D&D Druid. " Funny you should say that because my work around build for this is to start as a first level druid and then multiclass to wizard.
As has been said, you play druid the way you want to, not the way you think people think you should.
My druid is a noble and courtier who was appointed to his post tending the kingdom's sacred grove. He obviously loves nature and everything wild and outdoorsy, and is a bit unsociable (especially shy of strangers) but is also quite capable of living among people without snarling. He is nothing like a wild man (more like a gardener who STRONGLY prefers to camp out) and would never kill a farmer without very good reasons. A pig farmer or a responsible hunter or someone cutting firewood is no different to him than a hunting wolf, seeking to survive. He hunts, himself, on occasion. And he's not a vegetarian because, as his mentor asked him when he considered it, "What are you going to eat after you learn to speak with plants?" It is quite possible to see intelligent humanoid species as merely another sort of animal, and even the biggest cities to be, in their own way, as natural as ant colonies. (Neither of which a sane person would want to live in, of course.)
Wild Shape is a fun bonus, and never needs to be the be-all and end-all of your druid's lifestyle. Being able to experience the lives of other creatures of the wild seems like a wonderful thing for any druid, and I bet Getafix would enjoy it very much, too. ^^
(I read Asterix as a student of German language, so the druid will always be Miraculix to me.)
Edeleth Treesong (Aldalire) WoodElf Druid lvl 8 Talaveroth Sub 2 Last Tree StandingTabaxi Ranger, Chef and Hoardsperson lvl 5, Company of the Dragon Team 1 Choir Kenku Cleric, Tempest Domain, lvl 11, Descent Into Avernus Test Drive Poinki Goblin Paladin, Redemption, lvl 5, Tales from Talaveroth Lyrika Nyx Satyr Bard lvl 1, The Six Kingdoms of Talia
Having been raised on Asterix and Obelix comics, I've always loved druids and I wanted to make a druid like Getafix, a wise magician and potion maker that help their towns and villages. D&D druids are more like wild men living in the woods and hating civilization, that would sooner kill a farmer than help them. So, between that and boring old wild shape, druids in D&D have always been a turn off for me. I'd love to see a proper druid for D&D, rather than civilization hating enviroMENTAL changelings that they are now.
I think your concept here is incredibly limited. Crops aren't a human invention, they grew long before humanity existed, both in reality and presumably, in most D&D campaign settings. Consequently, the farmer that wisely tends his or her crops, helps them to grow and harvests in good time would be seen as a caretaker. A slash and burn farmer whom wantonly destroys a forest for his or her own enrichment; now that would draw the anger of a druid. There are numerous gods of plants and harvests that would hardly see their worshippers killed.
As for wild shape, think of it as a magical expression of the druid's appreciation and protection of nature. It's not a methodology for combat nor something to strike fear in the hearts of monsters and anti-ecological terrorists, though at high levels, it might be used that way. Rather, it's a gift of nature to the druid for understanding, and perhaps a measure of empathy imparted to the druid: to see through the eyes of nature.
Finally, I might challenge the trope of wild men and women. It is more a sense of wonder and wisdom in nature. Gandhi once said, "There is more to life than increasing its speed." It is thus with Druids. In humanity's rush to do something with their limited lifespans, the Druid represents the emphasis on slowing down and including nature, rather than excluding it. Life, growth and death in their due time and season, all within a natural order, not forced by any side, good or evil.
They way I see this is that Wild Shape can only handle so much metal, especially ferrous metals. If a druid were wearing metal armor and tried to Wild Shape, they would likely damage the armor and hurt themselves as the wild shape magic can't work with that much metal. Thus, wooden shields get folded in to the magic, while metal ones are dropped. The main exception would be if the druid were to wild shape to something small while wearing metal armor. Then they would have to crawl out.
EDIT: Likewise with gold. Encumbered by the gold you are carrying? Wildshape and watch how much gold drops to the ground...
In my campaign world, this is the reason that most druids don't wear metal armor. It interferes with the core mechanic.
I would be super annoyed if as a druid I suddenly lost half my funds just for wildshaping, since it's kind of a key aspect of the class.
My response as a druid (actually happened in a game) when asked about the metal armor thing was to say "geez, man, have you seen what mining does to the environment? I mean, if I find some used metal armor that fits me, no problem, but I'm not going to go buy something new and continue that cycle if I can avoid it. No judgment toward dwarves, I mean, you do you, right? Its just my thing."
"Again, you get infinite wild shape at level 20." OP meh is still meh.
"It's hard to tell what your real problem is." It's not a problem, it's a preference.
I find the wizard schools limited. Wizards need better options. I wish Theurgy had become a real thing. War mage is kinda ok I guess.
But Ki for a monk and pacts for warlocks are a mystery like wild shape? No. I disagree.
Anyway, I'm not trying to argue. I am just wondering if their were others like myself who come from a different POV on Druids than D&D.
You haven't described what makes it "meh." You haven't described your problem nor your preference, which are not mutually exclusive concepts, beyond that you just don't like it. The rest just shows you aren't actually listening to the arguments being made and are completely missing the point.
But I agree, you aren't here to argue because you don't give reasons or cite evidence in support of your idea.
"The rest just shows you aren't actually listening to the arguments being made and are completely missing the point." Says they guy who wants to hijack the thread...
This conversation has started becoming a bit heated. Before it continues, I recommend taking a step back for a while to calm down. The discussion can continue when argument can be made with reason and not flaming.
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
Meh. I'm not mad. It's not like it is the first time I have had to deal with someone who want s to argue for the sake of arguing. I just wanted folks to share their POV on wildshape, NOT have my tastes dissected and aspersions cast on my ability to reason.
Well, if you wanted people to share their POV on wildshape, why didn't you just say so!
I think wild shape is a lot of fun. You can be stealthy as a spider (or a cat or a bat), a bit tanky and do some damage with a melee combat wild form, you've got all sorts of random utility wild shapes. It's great.
I reckon that wild shape is fine. It has utility. But no, I was wondering if there were people like me that wondered why wild shape became so intrinsic to being a druid. I know shape changing, even as limited as wild shape, is useful. It's just that, as a class feature, I'm not turned on even though I like the idea of druids. Is their anyone else, like me, that doesn't think that wild shape should be central to being a druid?
Wild shape is the biggest turnoff for me as far as druids go. having it as a core mechanic just stinks imo. I'd rather that it was a deal with some subclasses but not all. Sure I can just not use it, but simply not using a core mechanic is kind of hamstringing myself.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Just make a Circle of Spores or Circle of Wildfire (UA) so that you can use your Wild Shape slots for other things, if you dislike using it to transform.
Those are some pretty nice options. They don't help with the kind of druid I'm trying to make, though.
In the character I'm building, that prompted me to post this thread, I've chosen instead to multiclass wizard starting as a first level druid. He's a druid that will never be a member of a circle. So, I call him a druid of the line.
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Having been raised on Asterix and Obelix comics, I've always loved druids and I wanted to make a druid like Getafix, a wise magician and potion maker that help their towns and villages. D&D druids are more like wild men living in the woods and hating civilization, that would sooner kill a farmer than help them. So, between that and boring old wild shape, druids in D&D have always been a turn off for me. I'd love to see a proper druid for D&D, rather than civilization hating enviroMENTAL changelings that they are now.
D&D druids (albeit all classes) are whatever you want them to be. The reason you see more wild men that hate civilization is generally a lack of imagination and shallow writing, that doesn't mean you have to be that type of character. The idea of druids being more likely to kill a farmer is highly inaccurate, hyperbole or not. The only mechanic of druids that comes remotely close to shunning civilization is the metal armor/shield restriction, and that is still a weak, lore-based mechanic that can easily be ignored in your world.
"Boring old wild shape." You're going to have to elaborate. It's boring to turn into animals? You don't think it is strong enough or it's too restrictive? Take the right subclass and you can become elementals and unlimited alter self. Level 20 is unlimited wild shape, what exactly is boring to you?
My only problem is with polymorph-like effects being too powerful, but that is an easy homebrew as well by using the temporary hit point alternative.
Don't know anything about Getafix, but every Druid is automatically "wise" with a reliance on Wisdom. They also gain an automatic proficiency in herbalism kits, there are plenty of backgrounds to choose from to give you proficiency in alchemist's tools (you can choose the Hermit and double herbalist proficiency allows you to choose any tool), and they have Insight, Medicine, and Survival as class skills. By your description, Getafix is a run-of-the-mill, level 1 D&D Druid.
The idea of a "proper" druid is highly subjective. In some versions of the Arthurian tales, Merlin was considered a druid and yet he is much more commonly associated with Wizards in pop culture. The Shannara Chronicles have their own idea of druids. Why would your favorite fictional character be a proper druid and someone else's not?
I like this particular part about druids. It hearkens back to a more Fae and ancient type of magic that cold iron interferes with. It is one of the few things (besides actual spell lists) that separate them from wizards, but as you pointed out, sometimes in the past distinguishing between what you might call a wizard and a druid hasn't been so easy.
If you dislike wildshape, you should go watch the DDB video with Todd Kenereck and Jeremy Crawford about the new druid UA. Jeremy describes the signature power of historical druids as foresight and the ability to change form as basically a parlor trick. Actually overall, that video does quite a good job at selling the new subclass. I'm not a huge fan of wildshape either, and play a land druid in my current campaign.
I've always seen D&D druids more like hippies than wildmen. They're in tune with nature to a point where they can become part of it, to an extent, through wildshape. The rest of it just comes down to RP. As for wildshape itself, it comes down to your subclass. I've always felt that, unless you choose circle of the moon, a druid's battlefield control is far more valuable and powerful than his ability to turn into a horse, or something.
""Boring old wild shape." You're going to have to elaborate. It's boring to turn into animals?"
Shape changing is for some reason beyond me, a core mechanic of Druids and I'm just not that into shape changing - especially when it's wild shape... what is it, once a day for an hour or so? If at least they worked like druids in WoW. I kinda dig how shape changing works for Druids in World of Warcraft. Boomkin FTW!
EDIT: I correct myself:
"Starting at 2nd level, you can use your action to magically assume the shape of a beast that you have seen before. You can use this feature twice. You regain expended uses when you finish a short or long rest."
Better. But, still no cigar.
"By your description, Getafix is a run-of-the-mill, level 1 D&D Druid. "
Funny you should say that because my work around build for this is to start as a first level druid and then multiclass to wizard.
They way I see this is that Wild Shape can only handle so much metal, especially ferrous metals. If a druid were wearing metal armor and tried to Wild Shape, they would likely damage the armor and hurt themselves as the wild shape magic can't work with that much metal. Thus, wooden shields get folded in to the magic, while metal ones are dropped. The main exception would be if the druid were to wild shape to something small while wearing metal armor. Then they would have to crawl out.
EDIT: Likewise with gold. Encumbered by the gold you are carrying? Wildshape and watch how much gold drops to the ground...
In my campaign world, this is the reason that most druids don't wear metal armor. It interferes with the core mechanic.
Consider the following:
The commonality here is that all of these abilities and others are often pulled from obscure references. Not every Wizard in literature history has a familiar, in fact, I can only recall the Disney version of Merlin from The Sword in the Stone off the top of my head having one. Why a Paladin has any special ability whatsoever considering its history could likewise be considered "beyond [someone]" without looking to more obscure literature and inferences. As such, here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:
The Gallizenae
According to classical authors, the Gallizenae (or Gallisenae) were virgin priestesses of the Île de Sein off Pointe du Raz, Finistère, western Brittany.[46] Their existence was first mentioned by the Greek geographer Artemidorus Ephesius and later by the Greek historian Strabo, who wrote that their island was forbidden to men, but the women came to the mainland to meet their husbands. Which deities they honored is unknown.[47] According to Pomponius Mela, the Gallizenae acted as both councilors and practitioners of the healing arts:
"Sena, in the Britannic Sea, opposite the coast of the Osismi, is famous for its oracle of a Gaulish god, whose priestesses, living in the holiness of perpetual virginity, are said to be nine in number. They call them Gallizenae, and they believe them to be endowed with extraordinary gifts to rouse the sea and the wind by their incantations, to turn themselves into whatsoever animal form they may choose, to cure diseases which among others are incurable, to know what is to come and to foretell it. They are, however; devoted to the service of voyagers only who have set out on no other errand than to consult them
Here is another noteworthy line from the same article:
In Irish-language literature, the druids — draoithe, plural of draoi— are sorcerers with supernatural powers, who are respected in society, particularly for their ability to perform divination. The Dictionary of the Irish Language defines druí (which has numerous variant forms, including draoi) as 'magician, wizard or diviner'.[70] In the literature the druids cast spells and turn people into animals or stones, or curse peoples’ crops to be blighted.
Again, you get infinite wild shape at level 20. It's hard to tell what your real problem is. You don't like shapechanging but you like it when you can do it all the time? There are important mechanical reasons why you have limited wild shapes, it is just the nature of a TTRPG vs. an MMORPG. There is a lot to unwrap on why this is vs. having an ability like the Changeling's Change Appearance feature but for animals, which I admit would be cool but problematic in certain respects from a gaming perspective.
Cool, I like that idea.
As has been said, you play druid the way you want to, not the way you think people think you should.
My druid is a noble and courtier who was appointed to his post tending the kingdom's sacred grove. He obviously loves nature and everything wild and outdoorsy, and is a bit unsociable (especially shy of strangers) but is also quite capable of living among people without snarling. He is nothing like a wild man (more like a gardener who STRONGLY prefers to camp out) and would never kill a farmer without very good reasons. A pig farmer or a responsible hunter or someone cutting firewood is no different to him than a hunting wolf, seeking to survive. He hunts, himself, on occasion. And he's not a vegetarian because, as his mentor asked him when he considered it, "What are you going to eat after you learn to speak with plants?" It is quite possible to see intelligent humanoid species as merely another sort of animal, and even the biggest cities to be, in their own way, as natural as ant colonies. (Neither of which a sane person would want to live in, of course.)
Wild Shape is a fun bonus, and never needs to be the be-all and end-all of your druid's lifestyle. Being able to experience the lives of other creatures of the wild seems like a wonderful thing for any druid, and I bet Getafix would enjoy it very much, too. ^^
(I read Asterix as a student of German language, so the druid will always be Miraculix to me.)
Edeleth Treesong (Aldalire) Wood Elf Druid lvl 8 Talaveroth Sub 2
Last Tree Standing Tabaxi Ranger, Chef and Hoardsperson lvl 5, Company of the Dragon Team 1
Choir Kenku Cleric, Tempest Domain, lvl 11, Descent Into Avernus Test Drive
Poinki Goblin Paladin, Redemption, lvl 5, Tales from Talaveroth
Lyrika Nyx Satyr Bard lvl 1, The Six Kingdoms of Talia
I think your concept here is incredibly limited. Crops aren't a human invention, they grew long before humanity existed, both in reality and presumably, in most D&D campaign settings. Consequently, the farmer that wisely tends his or her crops, helps them to grow and harvests in good time would be seen as a caretaker. A slash and burn farmer whom wantonly destroys a forest for his or her own enrichment; now that would draw the anger of a druid. There are numerous gods of plants and harvests that would hardly see their worshippers killed.
As for wild shape, think of it as a magical expression of the druid's appreciation and protection of nature. It's not a methodology for combat nor something to strike fear in the hearts of monsters and anti-ecological terrorists, though at high levels, it might be used that way. Rather, it's a gift of nature to the druid for understanding, and perhaps a measure of empathy imparted to the druid: to see through the eyes of nature.
Finally, I might challenge the trope of wild men and women. It is more a sense of wonder and wisdom in nature. Gandhi once said, "There is more to life than increasing its speed." It is thus with Druids. In humanity's rush to do something with their limited lifespans, the Druid represents the emphasis on slowing down and including nature, rather than excluding it. Life, growth and death in their due time and season, all within a natural order, not forced by any side, good or evil.
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
I would be super annoyed if as a druid I suddenly lost half my funds just for wildshaping, since it's kind of a key aspect of the class.
My response as a druid (actually happened in a game) when asked about the metal armor thing was to say "geez, man, have you seen what mining does to the environment? I mean, if I find some used metal armor that fits me, no problem, but I'm not going to go buy something new and continue that cycle if I can avoid it. No judgment toward dwarves, I mean, you do you, right? Its just my thing."
"Again, you get infinite wild shape at level 20."
OP meh is still meh.
"It's hard to tell what your real problem is."
It's not a problem, it's a preference.
I find the wizard schools limited. Wizards need better options. I wish Theurgy had become a real thing. War mage is kinda ok I guess.
But Ki for a monk and pacts for warlocks are a mystery like wild shape? No. I disagree.
Anyway, I'm not trying to argue. I am just wondering if their were others like myself who come from a different POV on Druids than D&D.
You haven't described what makes it "meh." You haven't described your problem nor your preference, which are not mutually exclusive concepts, beyond that you just don't like it. The rest just shows you aren't actually listening to the arguments being made and are completely missing the point.
But I agree, you aren't here to argue because you don't give reasons or cite evidence in support of your idea.
"The rest just shows you aren't actually listening to the arguments being made and are completely missing the point."
Says they guy who wants to hijack the thread...
This conversation has started becoming a bit heated. Before it continues, I recommend taking a step back for a while to calm down. The discussion can continue when argument can be made with reason and not flaming.
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Meh. I'm not mad. It's not like it is the first time I have had to deal with someone who want s to argue for the sake of arguing.
I just wanted folks to share their POV on wildshape, NOT have my tastes dissected and aspersions cast on my ability to reason.
I reckon I will just ignore people a lot more.
Well, if you wanted people to share their POV on wildshape, why didn't you just say so!
I think wild shape is a lot of fun. You can be stealthy as a spider (or a cat or a bat), a bit tanky and do some damage with a melee combat wild form, you've got all sorts of random utility wild shapes. It's great.
I reckon that wild shape is fine. It has utility. But no, I was wondering if there were people like me that wondered why wild shape became so intrinsic to being a druid.
I know shape changing, even as limited as wild shape, is useful.
It's just that, as a class feature, I'm not turned on even though I like the idea of druids.
Is their anyone else, like me, that doesn't think that wild shape should be central to being a druid?
Wild shape is the biggest turnoff for me as far as druids go. having it as a core mechanic just stinks imo. I'd rather that it was a deal with some subclasses but not all. Sure I can just not use it, but simply not using a core mechanic is kind of hamstringing myself.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Just make a Circle of Spores or Circle of Wildfire (UA) so that you can use your Wild Shape slots for other things, if you dislike using it to transform.
Those are some pretty nice options. They don't help with the kind of druid I'm trying to make, though.
In the character I'm building, that prompted me to post this thread, I've chosen instead to multiclass wizard starting as a first level druid.
He's a druid that will never be a member of a circle. So, I call him a druid of the line.