Based on the little snippet in the subclass tab, they have little to do with terrestrial nature and are more like Illuminati astrologists. Don't get me wrong, I find the idea and the execution fascinating and very well done... but are they perhaps a little too far removed from druids?
Not really. The idea of looking at the stars and the things that come from it seem very natural, and fit very well for druids. For example, pair it with wild shape: The druid looked to the stars, and stared at them. After a few seconds, they started running. Faster and faster. Their hair started to lengthen, and their hands transformed into paws. But their eyes stayed the same lupine blue as they transformed into a wolf. 'Tonight is the night the stars align.' They thought. 'And when they do, the wilds will sing with joy and glow with blue light.'
I think it's perfect for a druid. And once they get to level 8, turning into an owl is very thematic. Or giant owl...
But they are definitely not far away from normal druids.
The focus on studying the stars doesn't imply they're any less concerned with maintaining the balance of the natural world than other druids; they just go about it in a different way.
The idea of heaven and earth being two sides of the natural world is as old as mankind. If there's a circle of the land, why not a circle of the heavens?
Here's my post on the Upcoming UA thread. I was discussing the different aspects of druids, and where they get their power from. I mentioned all of the subclasses, and one I'd like to see in a UA, but the important part is the Stars Druid section.
People always forget that Rangers are the ones that are the protectors of nature. Rangers love the forests and other parts of nature. Druids are the different aspects of nature. They embody those parts of nature. That's why Spores druids exist. That's why Wildfire druids have recently been introduced.
Land Druids are the embodiment of the magical aspect of nature. The magic that feeds and comes from nature is their power. The magic from nature comes from the land, which is what they draw their power from.
Moon Druids are the embodiment of the beasts in nature. They embody the creatures that dwell in forests and other ecosystems. They are those creatures, that's why they can turn into them. (All druids can turn into animals, but Moon druids perfectly embody this aspect.)
Spores Druids embody the undeath of nature. Life, death, undeath. The three most important aspects of the circle of life in D&D. They embody the decay of life into undeath, and feed on the energy of this process.
Shepherd Druids embody sheep. Just kidding, they embody the unity of nature. There is a balance to nature. Plants eat the sun, animals eat plants, animals eat animals. There is a balance to nature, and Shepherd Druids are that balance, and they draw power from it. They take the balance of nature, and they spread it to their allies and companions in a bubble around them.
Wildfire Druids would embody the rebirth part of nature. Things are constantly dying in nature, being consumed, and more life comes from their remains. There are 3 key parts of nature in D&D, life, death, and undeath. There is a 4th aspect, which is almost as important as the other 3: Rebirth. Wildfire druids don't just embody this rebirth, they are it. They create this through their fires. They burn others to feed back their borrowed energies to nature.
Stars Druids. Now, this is a bit harder to point to, as the UA says they draw their power from Starlight. This isn't what I see them actually drawing power from. They draw their power from the stories in nature. There are myths, legends, ancient stories that are a key part of nature. These exist in the constellations. Nearly every ancient society named constellations and created stories linking them to the far away stars. Stars Druids are those stories. They are the constellations that fuel those legends. They guide society by prophesying the future through the stories that society have gotten from the stars. Stars guide people, and Stars Druids embody this by guiding others.
Dream Druids embody the Feywild part of nature. This is a niche part of nature, but the Feywild is a vibrant forest filled plane that is connected to nature. In simplest terms, Dream Druids embody the life of nature. As Spores druids are undeath, Dream druids are life.
Now, this Blighter Druid that I speak of? This would embody death. There is a key distinction between this and the Spores druid. Though they do exist in a similar aspect of the circle of life that fuels nature, they're not the same. Dream Druids are life, Spores Druids are undeath, and the Blighter would be death. This druid would be similar to both the Wildfire and Spores druid. They kill things, and release that power. They'd use necrotic damage to harm plants and creatures. They would have an added prepared spell list with Blight, Ray of Sickness, and other necrotic spells. They are death. They embody the act of dying.
(I know a lot of this is a bit off topic, I just felt like I needed to share this.)
Essentially, Stars druids guide others with maps that can predict the future. These maps are of the constellations, and these constellations are the inspirations of stories and legends through the ages.
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I'm sorry, but I've never encountered any lore text saying that "undeath" is an important part of the circle of life in D&D or otherwise that wasn't clearly written by a necromancer or wannabe necromancer. Where are you getting this supposed "lore" from?
I'm sorry, but I've never encountered any lore text saying that "undeath" is an important part of the circle of life in D&D or otherwise that wasn't clearly written by a necromancer or wannabe necromancer. Where are you getting this supposed "lore" from?
"These druids believe that life and death are parts of a grand cycle, with one leading to the other and then back again. Death isn’t the end of life, but instead a change of state that sees life shift into a new form."
"Druids of this circle have a complex relationship with the undead. Unlike most other druids, they see nothing inherently wrong with undeath, which they consider to be a companion to life and death. But these druids believe that the natural cycle is healthiest when each segment of it is vibrant and changing. "
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Ah, right, the self-serving PR message of the one group of Druids that regularly uses undead minions. Somehow, I have a very hard time imagining that other Druid factions would embrace this direction of Druid-ing with open arms and would much rather be called to arms against it.
"Druids accept that which is cruel in nature, and they hate that which is unnatural, including aberrations (such as beholders and mind flayers) and undead (such as zombies and vampires)."
Quote from the druid section of the PHB.
So, yes, they typically don't like unnatural creatures, like undead, but that depends on the type of druid. Druids gain their power from nature, and the cycle of life in nature. In D&D, life, death, undeath, and rebirth are the most important parts of this cycle. Sure, some druids might like the life part more than others, such as Land and Dream druids, but some like the death and undeath more than others, like the Spores druid, or some other theoretical druids. Wildfire like Death and Rebirth. There's a cycle, and most subclasses are tied to a part of this cycle.
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Undeath has never explicitly been part of the cycle. Death is not undeath. Totally different things. Undeath is not part of the cycle of life and death for the very reason that it stops death from truly taking place. Depending on the kind of undead being made, it may also trap the soul and prevent it from moving on. See Ghosts and Revenants, for example. Undeath is treated as anathema by any life or nature aligned deities and their clerics because it IS anathema to the cycle of life and death.
If you want to rewrite the lore in your particular campaign world to somehow make the undead "natural", that's certainly something doable, but please don't try to pretend as you did in your first comment that undeath is something commonly accepted by non-Spores Druids in D&D lore when it clearly is not. Spore Druids, at best, would be a very controversial addition to Druid society, if not outright attacked at every opportunity by other Druids.
I'm not pretending that undeath is a part of the circle of life in D&D, the Spores druid text explicitly says, "Unlike most other druids, they see nothing inherently wrong with undeath, which they consider to be a companion to life and death."
It's in the lore. The explanation of the Spores druids says that most other druids don't like undead, but most doesn't mean all. The fact that it says most other druids instead of all other druids, shows that there are other druids that believe undeath to be a part of the circle of life in D&D. It's a part of nature for Spores druids and other types of druids, even if they are rare and mostly unheard of. I didn't pretend that it is commonly accepted by non-Spores druids, it is not, but the fact that druids to get their power from different aspects of nature, combined with the fact that undead-based druids exist, proves that undeath is a part of nature in D&D, but is considered unnatural and taboo by most druids.
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Here's my post on the Upcoming UA thread. I was discussing the different aspects of druids, and where they get their power from. I mentioned all of the subclasses, and one I'd like to see in a UA, but the important part is the Stars Druid section.
People always forget that Rangers are the ones that are the protectors of nature. Rangers love the forests and other parts of nature. Druids are the different aspects of nature. They embody those parts of nature. That's why Spores druids exist. That's why Wildfire druids have recently been introduced.
Wildfire Druids would embody the rebirth part of nature. Things are constantly dying in nature, being consumed, and more life comes from their remains. There are 3 key parts of nature in D&D, life, death, and undeath. There is a 4th aspect, which is almost as important as the other 3: Rebirth. Wildfire druids don't just embody this rebirth, they are it. They create this through their fires. They burn others to feed back their borrowed energies to nature.
All of the italicized sections are things you wrote and the context of the text around them strongly implies that, in D&D lore, Spore Druids' affinity for the undead is shared by other Druids. I am pointing it out that this is not at all the case so that new Druid players who stumple upon this post do not misinterpret your interpretation of Druid lore that is biased towards Spores Druids.
Just because one type of subclass exists doesn't mean that it's universally accepted as doctrine among the other subclasses. I made the statement "They embody those parts of nature. That's why Spores druids exist" because druids draw power from different aspects of nature. A druid doesn't have magic if it doesn't draw power from a specific part of nature. I never implied that other druids know of this cycle, or accept it as part of nature, as living things generally hate dead and undead things, and the things that create those undead creatures.
So, yes, you probably shouldn't have your Dreams Druid go around proclaiming that undeath is part of the circle of life or a part of nature, unless there is a reason for your character to know or agree with that statement. Spores druids exist, which shows a greater cycle of nature in D&D lore. I said the second italicized part because I was pointing out how Wildfire druids fit into D&D lore.
So, yes, players, especially new ones, should understand that undeath isn't widely accepted as part of nature among non-Spores druids, but there are some druids that do believe this.
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"Warlocks and sages know that when one looks up at the stars, some stars glare back with hunger. When a star hangs in the correct position in the sky and its light strikes the world at precisely the right angle, the star spawn walk the world. Star spawn are utterly malevolent beings."
The stars occupy the Far Realms of the d&d cosmos where eldritch horrors lurk. Considering the stars are home to aboleths and elder evils, it make perfect sense for druids to concern themselves the heavenly bodies.
Hadar, Acamar, Caiphon, and Zhudun are staring down and plenty of the people with that knowledge would recognize astronomy as a crucial component of planar defense.
I'm not pretending that undeath is a part of the circle of life in D&D, the Spores druid text explicitly says, "Unlike most other druids, they see nothing inherently wrong with undeath, which they consider to be a companion to life and death."
It's in the lore. The explanation of the Spores druids says that most other druids don't like undead, but most doesn't mean all. The fact that it says most other druids instead of all other druids, shows that there are other druids that believe undeath to be a part of the circle of life in D&D. It's a part of nature for Spores druids and other types of druids, even if they are rare and mostly unheard of. I didn't pretend that it is commonly accepted by non-Spores druids, it is not, but the fact that druids to get their power from different aspects of nature, combined with the fact that undead-based druids exist, proves that undeath is a part of nature in D&D, but is considered unnatural and taboo by most druids.
It's lore, but clumsy and poorly thought lore, and the fact that the Spore Circle made it from UA to a published text with that language intact supports the mixed reviews I've read of the Ravennica book.. There's a big difference between spore/fungi/mold that flourish on dead matter (which are a natural process) to the point of animation (which is also a natural process at least at the insect level) and the undead which are generally propagated through necromancy or other defiance of the natural laws of life and death. Are the Myconid race/species in the Monster Manual undead? No. Writers should have bound the Spore Circle to an established spore/fungal thinking (with its psychedelic inflections) already established in lore and mechanics.
That said, I can't say precisely why but I can appreciate the focus of the Circle of Spores emphasis on something within the "margins" of animal/plant expressions of "life" and "nature" than I can the Wildfire Druid, which seems to privilege one elemental force of nature over all others for the sake of "pyrotechnics ... cool" game effects. The Circle of the Stars makes sense in terms of the nature of the earth is in line or in alignment with stellar phenomena (can't say celestial because lore makes that a loaded term) and also speaks to presumptions that real life "druidic" type locales like Stonehenge had an astronomical function. They and the Circle of Dreams play off the idea that druids are attuned to forces shaping and affecting nature beyond simply what botany, zoology, and geology can account. Spores speaks to that too. Wildfire ... too tyro pyro.
Based on the little snippet in the subclass tab, they have little to do with terrestrial nature and are more like Illuminati astrologists. Don't get me wrong, I find the idea and the execution fascinating and very well done... but are they perhaps a little too far removed from druids?
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Guys, pls."
Not really. The idea of looking at the stars and the things that come from it seem very natural, and fit very well for druids. For example, pair it with wild shape: The druid looked to the stars, and stared at them. After a few seconds, they started running. Faster and faster. Their hair started to lengthen, and their hands transformed into paws. But their eyes stayed the same lupine blue as they transformed into a wolf. 'Tonight is the night the stars align.' They thought. 'And when they do, the wilds will sing with joy and glow with blue light.'
I think it's perfect for a druid. And once they get to level 8, turning into an owl is very thematic. Or giant owl...
But they are definitely not far away from normal druids.
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The focus on studying the stars doesn't imply they're any less concerned with maintaining the balance of the natural world than other druids; they just go about it in a different way.
The idea of heaven and earth being two sides of the natural world is as old as mankind. If there's a circle of the land, why not a circle of the heavens?
Here's my post on the Upcoming UA thread. I was discussing the different aspects of druids, and where they get their power from. I mentioned all of the subclasses, and one I'd like to see in a UA, but the important part is the Stars Druid section.
Essentially, Stars druids guide others with maps that can predict the future. These maps are of the constellations, and these constellations are the inspirations of stories and legends through the ages.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I'm sorry, but I've never encountered any lore text saying that "undeath" is an important part of the circle of life in D&D or otherwise that wasn't clearly written by a necromancer or wannabe necromancer. Where are you getting this supposed "lore" from?
Here:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/ggtr/character-creation#DruidCircleofSpores
More specifically:
"These druids believe that life and death are parts of a grand cycle, with one leading to the other and then back again. Death isn’t the end of life, but instead a change of state that sees life shift into a new form."
"Druids of this circle have a complex relationship with the undead. Unlike most other druids, they see nothing inherently wrong with undeath, which they consider to be a companion to life and death. But these druids believe that the natural cycle is healthiest when each segment of it is vibrant and changing. "
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Ah, right, the self-serving PR message of the one group of Druids that regularly uses undead minions. Somehow, I have a very hard time imagining that other Druid factions would embrace this direction of Druid-ing with open arms and would much rather be called to arms against it.
"Druids accept that which is cruel in nature, and they hate that which is unnatural, including aberrations (such as beholders and mind flayers) and undead (such as zombies and vampires)."
Quote from the druid section of the PHB.
So, yes, they typically don't like unnatural creatures, like undead, but that depends on the type of druid. Druids gain their power from nature, and the cycle of life in nature. In D&D, life, death, undeath, and rebirth are the most important parts of this cycle. Sure, some druids might like the life part more than others, such as Land and Dream druids, but some like the death and undeath more than others, like the Spores druid, or some other theoretical druids. Wildfire like Death and Rebirth. There's a cycle, and most subclasses are tied to a part of this cycle.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Undeath has never explicitly been part of the cycle. Death is not undeath. Totally different things. Undeath is not part of the cycle of life and death for the very reason that it stops death from truly taking place. Depending on the kind of undead being made, it may also trap the soul and prevent it from moving on. See Ghosts and Revenants, for example. Undeath is treated as anathema by any life or nature aligned deities and their clerics because it IS anathema to the cycle of life and death.
If you want to rewrite the lore in your particular campaign world to somehow make the undead "natural", that's certainly something doable, but please don't try to pretend as you did in your first comment that undeath is something commonly accepted by non-Spores Druids in D&D lore when it clearly is not. Spore Druids, at best, would be a very controversial addition to Druid society, if not outright attacked at every opportunity by other Druids.
I'm not pretending that undeath is a part of the circle of life in D&D, the Spores druid text explicitly says, "Unlike most other druids, they see nothing inherently wrong with undeath, which they consider to be a companion to life and death."
It's in the lore. The explanation of the Spores druids says that most other druids don't like undead, but most doesn't mean all. The fact that it says most other druids instead of all other druids, shows that there are other druids that believe undeath to be a part of the circle of life in D&D. It's a part of nature for Spores druids and other types of druids, even if they are rare and mostly unheard of. I didn't pretend that it is commonly accepted by non-Spores druids, it is not, but the fact that druids to get their power from different aspects of nature, combined with the fact that undead-based druids exist, proves that undeath is a part of nature in D&D, but is considered unnatural and taboo by most druids.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
That was not made explicit in your first comment to this thread.
All of the italicized sections are things you wrote and the context of the text around them strongly implies that, in D&D lore, Spore Druids' affinity for the undead is shared by other Druids. I am pointing it out that this is not at all the case so that new Druid players who stumple upon this post do not misinterpret your interpretation of Druid lore that is biased towards Spores Druids.
Just because one type of subclass exists doesn't mean that it's universally accepted as doctrine among the other subclasses. I made the statement "They embody those parts of nature. That's why Spores druids exist" because druids draw power from different aspects of nature. A druid doesn't have magic if it doesn't draw power from a specific part of nature. I never implied that other druids know of this cycle, or accept it as part of nature, as living things generally hate dead and undead things, and the things that create those undead creatures.
So, yes, you probably shouldn't have your Dreams Druid go around proclaiming that undeath is part of the circle of life or a part of nature, unless there is a reason for your character to know or agree with that statement. Spores druids exist, which shows a greater cycle of nature in D&D lore. I said the second italicized part because I was pointing out how Wildfire druids fit into D&D lore.
So, yes, players, especially new ones, should understand that undeath isn't widely accepted as part of nature among non-Spores druids, but there are some druids that do believe this.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
"Warlocks and sages know that when one looks up at the stars, some stars glare back with hunger. When a star hangs in the correct position in the sky and its light strikes the world at precisely the right angle, the star spawn walk the world. Star spawn are utterly malevolent beings."
The stars occupy the Far Realms of the d&d cosmos where eldritch horrors lurk. Considering the stars are home to aboleths and elder evils, it make perfect sense for druids to concern themselves the heavenly bodies.
Hadar, Acamar, Caiphon, and Zhudun are staring down and plenty of the people with that knowledge would recognize astronomy as a crucial component of planar defense.
It's lore, but clumsy and poorly thought lore, and the fact that the Spore Circle made it from UA to a published text with that language intact supports the mixed reviews I've read of the Ravennica book.. There's a big difference between spore/fungi/mold that flourish on dead matter (which are a natural process) to the point of animation (which is also a natural process at least at the insect level) and the undead which are generally propagated through necromancy or other defiance of the natural laws of life and death. Are the Myconid race/species in the Monster Manual undead? No. Writers should have bound the Spore Circle to an established spore/fungal thinking (with its psychedelic inflections) already established in lore and mechanics.
That said, I can't say precisely why but I can appreciate the focus of the Circle of Spores emphasis on something within the "margins" of animal/plant expressions of "life" and "nature" than I can the Wildfire Druid, which seems to privilege one elemental force of nature over all others for the sake of "pyrotechnics ... cool" game effects. The Circle of the Stars makes sense in terms of the nature of the earth is in line or in alignment with stellar phenomena (can't say celestial because lore makes that a loaded term) and also speaks to presumptions that real life "druidic" type locales like Stonehenge had an astronomical function. They and the Circle of Dreams play off the idea that druids are attuned to forces shaping and affecting nature beyond simply what botany, zoology, and geology can account. Spores speaks to that too. Wildfire ... too tyro pyro.
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