The most important thing to realize about playing an eldritch knight is this:
You are a fighter
You're not a wizard/fighter hybrid and you're not a utility caster. You're a fighter. As a fighter you have two main goals in combat:
1. Attack with your weapons.
2. Take hits so the rest of your party doesn't have to.
Your spells should all help you be a better fighter, which means they should all contribute directly to one of those goals. You simply don't have the spell slots to effectively use utility spells, your spell levels come too late to get much use out of damaging spells, and you don't have the stat points to invest into Int enough that monsters won't make your saving throws. (at least until you get Eldritch Strike at level 10) You want spells that don't require a spell attack, don't require your enemy to fail their saving throw, and help you either attack with your weapons, or take hits so your party won't have to.
Here are some spells I would look at:
First level: Shield, Mage Armor, Find Familiar. (at level 3, you could maybe get away with burning hands)
Second Level: Enlarge/Reduce, Magic Weapon, Misty Step, Mirror Image
Third Level: Haste, Counterspell, Protection from Energy, Fly
Fourth Level: Dimension Door, Fire Shield, Stoneskin
The most important thing to realize about playing an eldritch knight is this:
You are a fighter
You're not a wizard/fighter hybrid and you're not a utility caster. You're a fighter. As a fighter you have two main goals in combat:
1. Attack with your weapons.
2. Take hits so the rest of your party doesn't have to.
Your spells should all help you be a better fighter, which means they should all contribute directly to one of those goals. You simply don't have the spell slots to effectively use utility spells, your spell levels come too late to get much use out of damaging spells, and you don't have the stat points to invest into Int enough that monsters won't make your saving throws. (at least until you get Eldritch Strike at level 10) You want spells that don't require a spell attack, don't require your enemy to fail their saving throw, and help you either attack with your weapons, or take hits so your party won't have to.
Here are some spells I would look at:
First level: Shield, Mage Armor, Find Familiar. (at level 3, you could maybe get away with burning hands)
Second Level: Enlarge/Reduce, Magic Weapon, Misty Step, Mirror Image
Third Level: Haste, Counterspell, Protection from Energy, Fly
Fourth Level: Dimension Door, Fire Shield, Stoneskin
You need to remember that all but 4 of your spells have to be either ABJURATION or EVOCATION spell. Those four spells can be from any school of magic and you receive those spells at 3rd, 8th, 14th and 20th levels. But otherwise, all of your spells have to be either ABJURATION or EVOCATION. Additionally, you will need to take into account SPELL COMPONENTS. Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Sorcerers, Warlocks and Wizards are natural spellcasters and can use a spellcasting focus instead of having to use individual material components (unless the material component is consumed or there is a cost associated with the material component). So the Eldritch Knight will need a spell's material components no matter what. It would be wise to select spells that don't require material components.
Also, let us not forget that the WAR CASTER FEAT will allow you to perform SOMATIC COMPONENTS (hand symbols) of a spell while having a weapon or shield in one or both hands.
I absolutely love my EK, but it is definitely NOT a traditional caster. Mine is built around being a mage killer with defensive spells and counterspell. His INT will never be enough to really use offensive spells near as well as a primary caster type, but blade ward, shield, and prot from good/evil, etc doesn't matter with INT.
If you go EK because you want a caster who can melee, you will hate the class. If you go in as a fighter who would like defensive spells and a cool teleport (not to mention binding to a magic javelin you can never lose) you will love it.
I really appreciate the spell usage analysis for the Eldritch Knight. That being said, I feel like 5e is geared more towards role playing and story telling than power gaming and maximizing attack roles.
The Basic Story of an Eldritch Knight:
A low level fighter to travels with a bunch of people who can all toss around magic cantrips like it’s second nature. The fighter is smarter than a normal brute, and figures he could learn how to do a few of those tricks. The friendly Gnome wizard is delighted to teach his buddy some basic stuff around the campfire, and next thing you know, we have an Eldritch Knight. Maybe he learns how to summon a familiar, but he is still a tough guy, not wizardy guy.
I have some questions about scroll use and ritual magic as an EK. I assume you would need the ritual magic feat. Can we use scrolls from any school or wizard magic or is it limited?
Any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it.
So you can use any scroll..... but!
If it's one your class spell list (which is every Wizard spell as an EK) and it's of a level you have a slot for, you can cast it without any issues. If it's higher level for you, its a DC 10+ the spell level and you can use the table for other effects to which is optional.
Here is the issue. It says Any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it but then under a scroll on p200 of the DMG it also says Other wise the scroll is unintelligible if it's not on your spell list.
So it's been cleared up in sage advice that if it's a spell scroll, it needs to be on your class list. If it's a scroll that casts something that isn't on a normal class spell list, anyone can cast it.
Any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it.
So you can use any scroll..... but!
If it's one your class spell list (which is every Wizard spell as an EK) and it's of a level you have a slot for, you can cast it without any issues. If it's higher level for you, its a DC 10+ the spell level and you can use the table for other effects to which is optional.
Here is the issue. It says Any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it but then under a scroll on p200 of the DMG it also says Other wise the scroll is unintelligible if it's not on your spell list.
So it's been cleared up in sage advice that if it's a spell scroll, it needs to be on your class list. If it's a scroll that casts something that isn't on a normal class spell list, anyone can cast it.
First paragraph of the Spell Scroll on page 200 of the DMG states..... "If the spell is on your class's spell list, you can use an action to read the scroll and cast its spell without having to provide any of the spell's components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible." Meaning that the spell has to be on your spell list to cast it, otherwise you don't know what the spell scroll says.
"Which is correct in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, the rule for scrolls or the rule for a spell scroll? They’re both correct. The rule for scrolls (p. 139) is for scrolls in general, including a scroll of protection, and it allows you to try to activate a spell if you’re literate. The rule for a spell scroll is specific to that type of scroll and introduces an additional requirement: the spell on the scroll must be on your class’s spell list for you to read the scroll.
A spell scroll can be named in a variety of ways: spell scroll, scroll of X (where X is the name of a spell), or spell scroll of X (where X, again, is the name of a spell). No matter how its name appears, a spell scroll follows the same rule.
For you to meet a spell scroll’s requirement, the spell on the scroll needs to be on whatever spell list is used by your class. Here are two examples. If you’re a cleric, the spell must be on the cleric spell list, and if you’re a fighter with the Eldritch Knight archetype, the spell must be on the wizard spell list, because that is the spell list used by your class."
What if you are not a spellcaster? Let's say you are a 5th level Champion Fighter. The Champion Fighter doesn't have any spellcasting abilities, but acquires a 1st level spell scroll of Cure Wounds. From what the Sage Advice is saying, a player who is not a spellcaster and doesn't have a spell list containing the Cure Wounds spell, they will not be able to cast the spell.
The Cure Wounds spell is available for the Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger and Celestial Warlock classes. What if a Cleric transcribed the Cure Wounds spell in the scroll and a Bard decides to read the scroll and use it. What Ability Modifier is used to cast it? Charisma or Wisdom?
My suggestion is to use the ability modifier of the individual that created the scroll. Meaning that whomever transcribed the Cure Wounds spell on the scroll you would have to use the spellcasting ability for that class. By setting up this type of guidelines for spell scrolls, it means that anyone can use a spell scroll (even if it isn't for a spell class they are not apart of). The user of the spell must use their ability modifier when attempting to cast that spell.
So the 5th level Champion Fighter obtains a Cure Wounds Scroll that was created by a Bard. In order to cast the spell the DC of the scroll would be 11 (10 + the spells level). When they roll their attempt to cast that spell they would need to add their Charisma Ability Modifier to the d20 roll. If the Fighter succeeds, then they are able to cast the spell, if not the spell fizzles and the scroll become useless.
By limiting spell scrolls to only those that can cast spells is a waste. Additionally, further limiting the casting of the specific spell scroll to a specific class list seems a bit much.
In the end it is up to the individual Dungeon Master and their views on whether a player can cast a spell from a scroll or not.
1)Spell scrolls which are scrolls that cast spells from a specific class, have to be cast by someone who can cast spells from that class or the are unintelligible.
2) Scrolls in general, scroll of protection or something that is not a spell scroll.
Yes it does limit those who can cast spell scrolls, a lot. If I had a scroll pop up in game that nobody could use I would either change it to a scroll that someone could use or allow an arcana check to see if someone could actually use it, then increase the DC by 5 from the list if they are a caster of some type and higher for non caster altogether. More than likely, just give out a scroll someone could use lol
The Cure Wounds spell is available for the Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger and Celestial Warlock classes. What if a Cleric transcribed the Cure Wounds spell in the scroll and a Bard decides to read the scroll and use it. What Ability Modifier is used to cast it? Charisma or Wisdom?
Charisma, though you still have to use the spell save DC and spell attack bonus specified for that level of spell scroll. The creator of the scroll isn't relevant.
By limiting spell scrolls to only those that can cast spells is a waste.
If you want a consumable magic item that grants the benefits of a spell to anyone, that's what potions are for.
Thanks for the technical break down on scroll use.
This confirms the the EK can use any wizard scroll of the cantrip or 1st level with no need to roll for success.
Our friendly Gnome Wizard who taught our EK his magic basics, also likes to scribe scrolls in his downtime (for use, sale or gifts). Scribing 1st level spell scrolls is a great downtime activity for Mr. Gnome, since 1st level spells can be scribed in 1 day for 25gp. Friendly Mr. Gnome give some spells scrolls to his friend the EK, who can stack some fun buffs even at 1st level.
How about a 3rd level EK who takes a few moments before coming around the corner to face the boss. You could buff with scrolls of longstrider and jump, and still have concentration available to use for a scroll expeditious retreat, making you very mobile and hard to catch. This way, you can save all your spell slots for Shield or Absorb Elements, which are the most important spells at low levels in my opinion.
Oh, yeah, how about a spell scroll of Find Familiar? That spell is currently my favorite power up in the game, and really adds to the powers of EK if used correctly.
The Cure Wounds spell is available for the Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger and Celestial Warlock classes. What if a Cleric transcribed the Cure Wounds spell in the scroll and a Bard decides to read the scroll and use it. What Ability Modifier is used to cast it? Charisma or Wisdom?
Charisma, though you still have to use the spell save DC and spell attack bonus specified for that level of spell scroll. The creator of the scroll isn't relevant.
The point I was making about the spell scroll creator is that there are spells that are shared by multiple different types of casters. The Cure Wounds spell is available to Charisma based casters and Wisdom based casters. So, knowing what attribute was used in the creation of the spell scroll in my opinion is important and should be a part of the spell scroll.
By limiting spell scrolls to only those that can cast spells is a waste.
If you want a consumable magic item that grants the benefits of a spell to anyone, that's what potions are for.
As for the consumable magic item, I was using cure wounds spell scroll as an example. So, if you want to get technical? What if the player don't have access to any potions or they don't have a healer in the party or their healer was taken out and the Cure Wounds scroll that was found, purchased or received from someone else is all they have? What I am saying is that limiting who can use a spell scroll to casters and further limiting them to a specific spell list in my opinion isn't very smart.
These are just my opinions on the subject. And, in the end, it is up to the individual Dungeon Master and what their views and thoughts on the subject that matter.
What if the player don't have access to any potions or they don't have a healer in the party or their healer was taken out and the Cure Wounds scroll that was found, purchased or received from someone else is all they have? What I am saying is that limiting who can use a spell scroll to casters and further limiting them to a specific spell list in my opinion isn't very smart.
You could say that about any magic item with a prerequisite. What if they get an Instrument of the Bards and no one's a bard? What if they find a Rod of the Pact Keeper and no one's a warlock?
You could change the rules of the items, but why do that when you have the power to give them a potion of healing instead of a scroll of cure wounds in the first place?
What if the player don't have access to any potions or they don't have a healer in the party or their healer was taken out and the Cure Wounds scroll that was found, purchased or received from someone else is all they have? What I am saying is that limiting who can use a spell scroll to casters and further limiting them to a specific spell list in my opinion isn't very smart.
You could say that about any magic item with a prerequisite. What if they get an Instrument of the Bards and no one's a bard? What if they find a Rod of the Pact Keeper and no one's a warlock?
You could change the rules of the items, but why do that when you have the power to give them a potion of healing instead of a scroll of cure wounds in the first place?
You're missing the point and you are beating a dead horse just to get the last word in. My views on spell scrolls are my opinion on the matter. I don't expect, want or need anyone else to agree with me on that subject. Again, this is the third time I have said this..... " In the end, it is up to the individual Dungeon Master and what their views and thoughts are on the subject that matter".
What makes D&D great is that the rules are not set in stone. A DM can use, modify or ignore any rule or suggest they want and still make the game enjoyable for the players. There is no wrong way to play the game. If you don't like how the DM is running the game leave and find another group. If you enjoy it, stay and play. In the end, it is a groups of friends that get together to have some harmless fun.
You're missing the point and you are beating a dead horse just to get the last word in.
I just want to know why "limiting who can use a spell scroll to casters and further limiting them to a specific spell list in my opinion isn't very smart". If anyone can use a scroll what's the point of potions in your game?
Again, this is the third time I have said this..... " In the end, it is up to the individual Dungeon Master and what their views and thoughts are on the subject that matter".
Ok, but saying "who can cast a spell scroll is up to the DM" in the middle of a discussion about the rules really confuses the issue. Everyone knows the DM can do whatever they want.
I personally wouldn’t homebrew that rule and keep it RAW. If your player wants to cast spells, have them play a caster. Allowing a player to have a non casting class but still have scrolls to cast from is a bit OP. All ya need is a Barbarian lobbing fireballs haha
I personally wouldn’t homebrew that rule and keep it RAW. If your player wants to cast spells, have them play a caster. Allowing a player to have a non casting class but still have scrolls to cast from is a bit OP. All ya need is a Barbarian lobbing fireballs haha
It maybe just me, but when I play, spell scrolls don't generally appear in the game or campaign. This could be due to the players not asking about them or the DM not adding them on a consistent basis. It's not like they are super rare items or anything like that, they are just not seen in any quantity.
Now I will conceive the issue if spell scrolls are seen on a regular basis in a game or campaign. Than limiting them to just the casters is fine with me. My issue may just be the fact that I don't see them that often in game play. I think I have seen 2 or 3 in about a year's worth of playing on a regular basis.
I personally wouldn’t homebrew that rule and keep it RAW. If your player wants to cast spells, have them play a caster. Allowing a player to have a non casting class but still have scrolls to cast from is a bit OP. All ya need is a Barbarian lobbing fireballs haha
It maybe just me, but when I play, spell scrolls don't generally appear in the game or campaign. This could be due to the players not asking about them or the DM not adding them on a consistent basis. It's not like they are super rare items or anything like that, they are just not seen in any quantity.
Now I will conceive the issue if spell scrolls are seen on a regular basis in a game or campaign. Than limiting them to just the casters is fine with me. My issue may just be the fact that I don't see them that often in game play. I think I have seen 2 or 3 in about a year's worth of playing on a regular basis.
I think it depends on the DM. When I play a Wizard, I tend to find scrolls more then when I play an EK or Barbarian with certain DM's. I feel a good DM will change loot to match the party composition. I was in a campaign that the big magic item was a Sword of answering for a party that had a Druid, Monk, Barbarian, and Sorcerer (me). Legendary item that nobody wanted lol. That really sucked so I make sure that when I run games it won't happen.
You know, this may be due to inexperience (I've only played twice years ago and never as an EK), but it seems to me that I've seen a lot of posts being concerned about the ability to cast somatic spells.
Why can't we just sheathe or drop our weapon and cast the spell? The PHB says that is one thing that can be done in tandem with our movement/action. It also lists stuff like picking up a dropped axe, pulling a lever, handing an item to another character, and several other things. Now I can understand it being an issue if your AC is affected by having your weapon in hand, or you want to keep a weapon in hand in case you get an attack of opportunity (I plan to dual wield so I'll have a weapon in hand regardless), but other than that, I don't see what the problem is.
Am I missing something? Or is it that most of the people making said posts are forgetting how quickly and easily they're allowed to stow their weapons?
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A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
Question: How do I apply the Weapon Bond feature using the interface? I increased the level of my Fighter just to see how the new options were added to the interface (I put it back to level 1 when I finished), and I saw there was a panel acknowledging that EK could use Weapon Bond, but I didn't see a way to designate any of my weapons as being bound to me. I hope that it's not something that I'm just supposed to keep track of on my own. That wouldn't be a big deal, but it seems flawed when everything else seems to be covered.
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A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
I hope to jump into the game with both feet.
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The most important thing to realize about playing an eldritch knight is this:
You are a fighter
You're not a wizard/fighter hybrid and you're not a utility caster. You're a fighter. As a fighter you have two main goals in combat:
1. Attack with your weapons.
2. Take hits so the rest of your party doesn't have to.
Your spells should all help you be a better fighter, which means they should all contribute directly to one of those goals. You simply don't have the spell slots to effectively use utility spells, your spell levels come too late to get much use out of damaging spells, and you don't have the stat points to invest into Int enough that monsters won't make your saving throws. (at least until you get Eldritch Strike at level 10) You want spells that don't require a spell attack, don't require your enemy to fail their saving throw, and help you either attack with your weapons, or take hits so your party won't have to.
Here are some spells I would look at:
First level: Shield, Mage Armor, Find Familiar. (at level 3, you could maybe get away with burning hands)
Second Level: Enlarge/Reduce, Magic Weapon, Misty Step, Mirror Image
Third Level: Haste, Counterspell, Protection from Energy, Fly
Fourth Level: Dimension Door, Fire Shield, Stoneskin
In terms of spells, there is also Absorb Elements, Protection from Evil and Good, and Shadow Blade.
I could also use more buff spells like Expeditious Retreat and Longstrider, especially if I multiclass into Bladesinger.
I know what spells I'd like to take. But I wondering what feats to choose aside from what I've picked already.
You're right. The class features are designed around swinging and blasting, though. You just have to recognize it as a trap "feature" and ignore it.
I absolutely love my EK, but it is definitely NOT a traditional caster. Mine is built around being a mage killer with defensive spells and counterspell. His INT will never be enough to really use offensive spells near as well as a primary caster type, but blade ward, shield, and prot from good/evil, etc doesn't matter with INT.
If you go EK because you want a caster who can melee, you will hate the class. If you go in as a fighter who would like defensive spells and a cool teleport (not to mention binding to a magic javelin you can never lose) you will love it.
I really appreciate the spell usage analysis for the Eldritch Knight. That being said, I feel like 5e is geared more towards role playing and story telling than power gaming and maximizing attack roles.
The Basic Story of an Eldritch Knight:
A low level fighter to travels with a bunch of people who can all toss around magic cantrips like it’s second nature. The fighter is smarter than a normal brute, and figures he could learn how to do a few of those tricks. The friendly Gnome wizard is delighted to teach his buddy some basic stuff around the campfire, and next thing you know, we have an Eldritch Knight. Maybe he learns how to summon a familiar, but he is still a tough guy, not wizardy guy.
I have some questions about scroll use and ritual magic as an EK. I assume you would need the ritual magic feat. Can we use scrolls from any school or wizard magic or is it limited?
“Surviving Port Nyanzaru” - Dungeon Master Tier 1
Any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it.
So you can use any scroll..... but!
If it's one your class spell list (which is every Wizard spell as an EK) and it's of a level you have a slot for, you can cast it without any issues. If it's higher level for you, its a DC 10+ the spell level and you can use the table for other effects to which is optional.
Here is the issue. It says Any creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it but then under a scroll on p200 of the DMG it also says Other wise the scroll is unintelligible if it's not on your spell list.
So it's been cleared up in sage advice that if it's a spell scroll, it needs to be on your class list. If it's a scroll that casts something that isn't on a normal class spell list, anyone can cast it.
A spell scroll can be named in a variety of ways: spell scroll, scroll of X (where X is the name of a spell), or spell scroll of X (where X, again, is the name of a spell). No matter how its name appears, a spell scroll follows the same rule.
For you to meet a spell scroll’s requirement, the spell on the scroll needs to be on whatever spell list is used by your class. Here are two examples. If you’re a cleric, the spell must be on the cleric spell list, and if you’re a fighter with the Eldritch Knight archetype, the spell must be on the wizard spell list, because that is the spell list used by your class."
Basically there are 2 types of scrolls.
1)Spell scrolls which are scrolls that cast spells from a specific class, have to be cast by someone who can cast spells from that class or the are unintelligible.
2) Scrolls in general, scroll of protection or something that is not a spell scroll.
Yes it does limit those who can cast spell scrolls, a lot. If I had a scroll pop up in game that nobody could use I would either change it to a scroll that someone could use or allow an arcana check to see if someone could actually use it, then increase the DC by 5 from the list if they are a caster of some type and higher for non caster altogether. More than likely, just give out a scroll someone could use lol
Thanks for the technical break down on scroll use.
This confirms the the EK can use any wizard scroll of the cantrip or 1st level with no need to roll for success.
Our friendly Gnome Wizard who taught our EK his magic basics, also likes to scribe scrolls in his downtime (for use, sale or gifts). Scribing 1st level spell scrolls is a great downtime activity for Mr. Gnome, since 1st level spells can be scribed in 1 day for 25gp. Friendly Mr. Gnome give some spells scrolls to his friend the EK, who can stack some fun buffs even at 1st level.
How about a 3rd level EK who takes a few moments before coming around the corner to face the boss. You could buff with scrolls of longstrider and jump, and still have concentration available to use for a scroll expeditious retreat, making you very mobile and hard to catch. This way, you can save all your spell slots for Shield or Absorb Elements, which are the most important spells at low levels in my opinion.
Oh, yeah, how about a spell scroll of Find Familiar? That spell is currently my favorite power up in the game, and really adds to the powers of EK if used correctly.
“Surviving Port Nyanzaru” - Dungeon Master Tier 1
The point I was making about the spell scroll creator is that there are spells that are shared by multiple different types of casters. The Cure Wounds spell is available to Charisma based casters and Wisdom based casters. So, knowing what attribute was used in the creation of the spell scroll in my opinion is important and should be a part of the spell scroll.
You could say that about any magic item with a prerequisite. What if they get an Instrument of the Bards and no one's a bard? What if they find a Rod of the Pact Keeper and no one's a warlock?
You could change the rules of the items, but why do that when you have the power to give them a potion of healing instead of a scroll of cure wounds in the first place?
I just want to know why "limiting who can use a spell scroll to casters and further limiting them to a specific spell list in my opinion isn't very smart". If anyone can use a scroll what's the point of potions in your game?
Ok, but saying "who can cast a spell scroll is up to the DM" in the middle of a discussion about the rules really confuses the issue. Everyone knows the DM can do whatever they want.
I personally wouldn’t homebrew that rule and keep it RAW. If your player wants to cast spells, have them play a caster. Allowing a player to have a non casting class but still have scrolls to cast from is a bit OP. All ya need is a Barbarian lobbing fireballs haha
You know, this may be due to inexperience (I've only played twice years ago and never as an EK), but it seems to me that I've seen a lot of posts being concerned about the ability to cast somatic spells.
Why can't we just sheathe or drop our weapon and cast the spell? The PHB says that is one thing that can be done in tandem with our movement/action. It also lists stuff like picking up a dropped axe, pulling a lever, handing an item to another character, and several other things. Now I can understand it being an issue if your AC is affected by having your weapon in hand, or you want to keep a weapon in hand in case you get an attack of opportunity (I plan to dual wield so I'll have a weapon in hand regardless), but other than that, I don't see what the problem is.
Am I missing something? Or is it that most of the people making said posts are forgetting how quickly and easily they're allowed to stow their weapons?
A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
I hope to jump into the game with both feet.
Question: How do I apply the Weapon Bond feature using the interface? I increased the level of my Fighter just to see how the new options were added to the interface (I put it back to level 1 when I finished), and I saw there was a panel acknowledging that EK could use Weapon Bond, but I didn't see a way to designate any of my weapons as being bound to me. I hope that it's not something that I'm just supposed to keep track of on my own. That wouldn't be a big deal, but it seems flawed when everything else seems to be covered.
A long time fantasy fan with very little DnD experience.
I hope to jump into the game with both feet.