My bad. I didn't realize that Crawford had classified it as an object. Still, this basically means that with the exception of spells like Fire Bolt, it can only be targeted by regular attacks. So...if you know how to position it properly, it's not likely to get hit often.
Yeah. The immunity to fireball and most spells is very handy, especially when you want to harm another creature without taking damage from an AoE effect.
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"Now looking at its ability above level 3, the level 7 feature is kind of useless as making a glowing copy of yourself to scout kind of defies the purpose of scouting because it will let everyone know your coming."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but nowhere does it say that your echo is glowing. It only says that it is translucent and gray, which means it would probably be *less* visible than your normal form, and thus perfect as a scout.
You are completely right, it is a much less risk free way of scouting.
Sadly, by the rules, an Echo can’t use or make stealth rolls. How should or would a DM run this is a Knight doesn’t want the Echo to be seen?
Especially because there is absolutely no way to turn it invisible. I personally would allow stealth checks while using this ability, but this doesn't work RAW.
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You are completely right, it is a much less risk free way of scouting.
Sadly, by the rules, an Echo can’t use or make stealth rolls. How should or would a DM run this is a Knight doesn’t want the Echo to be seen?
"you can temporarily transfer your consciousness to your echo", as per the description. You would make the stealth rolls as normal. Your consciousness is in the object, which makes it into a creature for all intents and purposes. It's not explicitly RAW, but if you pear through enough of the information, it's the ability for an object to act independently that makes it a creature. And when you have your consciousness inside of something, you are the actor and you make what you possess with your mind into a creature.
Sorry if this has already been brought up but just a point of contention on that dash tactic; you can't summon the echo and teleport to it in the same as they both require use of a bonus action, which you only have one of.
Other than that, I'm really enjoying the discussion and see myself siding with you guys on almost all the other points.
Couldn't you move your echo thirty ft in front of you and with the sentinel feat you use the reaction to stop the creature then if you have the swashbuckler subclass from rogue you move up on your turn to hit the opponent, then bonus action run and move your echo with you to stay within thirty ft of you and rinse and repeat? Also sorry for my bad spelling and grammar here, I didn't really know how to say this but I wanted to ask either way.
New to this sourcebook, so I am reading this for the first time. Thank you all for the insight into this incredible archetype. My tabaxi rogue is taking this multiclass to echo knight 4 / arcane trickster 16. Too much flavor to ignore!
I just wish it were possible to remove the posts that are repetitive, wrong, or "I agree" in nature. 11 "pages" of posts is a novel!
Hey all! This is my first comment on the site ever.
We're about to start a new campaign and i was thinking of doing an Echo Knight because they sound so interesting and fun.
I really enjoyed reading through a bunch of this and @Fishapod_, I plan on reading your other post about the Echo Knight. Third_Sundering, I appreciated your insights as well.
Also, that one guy was really annoying. Hope he found a character class that makes him happy.
Hey all! This is my first comment on the sight ever.
We're about to start a new campaign and i was thinking of doing an Echo Knight because they sound so interesting and fun.
I really enjoyed reading through a bunch of this and @Fishapod_, I plan on reading your other post about the Echo Knight. Third_Sundering, I appreciated your insights as well.
Also, that one guy was really annoying. Hope he found a character class that makes him happy.
Cheers to the rest of you!
Glad to hear you enjoyed our bickering! I haven’t checked back on my guide in a while, there may still be some incorrect information. Echo Knights are a bit complex because it’s a whole lot of figuring out what the wording allows you to do, so I may have made a few mistakes or left out a tactic or two. I highly recommend the subclass, if you enjoy using tactics and positioning to bring down your foes, you’ll really love the echo knight. They’re easily a contender for strongest fighter subclass.
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My bad. I didn't realize that Crawford had classified it as an object. Still, this basically means that with the exception of spells like Fire Bolt, it can only be targeted by regular attacks. So...if you know how to position it properly, it's not likely to get hit often.
Yeah. The immunity to fireball and most spells is very handy, especially when you want to harm another creature without taking damage from an AoE effect.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
"Now looking at its ability above level 3, the level 7 feature is kind of useless as making a glowing copy of yourself to scout kind of defies the purpose of scouting because it will let everyone know your coming."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but nowhere does it say that your echo is glowing. It only says that it is translucent and gray, which means it would probably be *less* visible than your normal form, and thus perfect as a scout.
You are completely right, it is a much less risk free way of scouting.
Sadly, by the rules, an Echo can’t use or make stealth rolls. How should or would a DM run this is a Knight doesn’t want the Echo to be seen?
I just meant that the echo can just be re summoned for no cost, as opposed to a costly familiar.
Especially because there is absolutely no way to turn it invisible. I personally would allow stealth checks while using this ability, but this doesn't work RAW.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
But...whybits?
Hi there! I'm a Christian musician based in Canada :)
"you can temporarily transfer your consciousness to your echo", as per the description. You would make the stealth rolls as normal. Your consciousness is in the object, which makes it into a creature for all intents and purposes. It's not explicitly RAW, but if you pear through enough of the information, it's the ability for an object to act independently that makes it a creature. And when you have your consciousness inside of something, you are the actor and you make what you possess with your mind into a creature.
You can switch places with your Echo.
I mostly use it for multi classing as like you said the level 3 ability is the most useful
Sorry if this has already been brought up but just a point of contention on that dash tactic; you can't summon the echo and teleport to it in the same as they both require use of a bonus action, which you only have one of.
Other than that, I'm really enjoying the discussion and see myself siding with you guys on almost all the other points.
Couldn't you move your echo thirty ft in front of you and with the sentinel feat you use the reaction to stop the creature then if you have the swashbuckler subclass from rogue you move up on your turn to hit the opponent, then bonus action run and move your echo with you to stay within thirty ft of you and rinse and repeat? Also sorry for my bad spelling and grammar here, I didn't really know how to say this but I wanted to ask either way.
The first part, no. You can't use the sentinel feat as part of your own turn.
But the 2nd part once the echo is engaged, yes.
New to this sourcebook, so I am reading this for the first time. Thank you all for the insight into this incredible archetype. My tabaxi rogue is taking this multiclass to echo knight 4 / arcane trickster 16. Too much flavor to ignore!
I just wish it were possible to remove the posts that are repetitive, wrong, or "I agree" in nature. 11 "pages" of posts is a novel!
Gosh, this thread was crazy. It gave me a headache just rereading it.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The glory days of march and april 2020, what a time to be alive
Yeah. Thanks for supporting me back then in this thread. Looking back on this, it feels like I survived a battle, or something.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Hey all! This is my first comment on the site ever.
We're about to start a new campaign and i was thinking of doing an Echo Knight because they sound so interesting and fun.
I really enjoyed reading through a bunch of this and @Fishapod_, I plan on reading your other post about the Echo Knight. Third_Sundering, I appreciated your insights as well.
Also, that one guy was really annoying. Hope he found a character class that makes him happy.
Cheers to the rest of you!
Glad to hear you enjoyed our bickering! I haven’t checked back on my guide in a while, there may still be some incorrect information. Echo Knights are a bit complex because it’s a whole lot of figuring out what the wording allows you to do, so I may have made a few mistakes or left out a tactic or two. I highly recommend the subclass, if you enjoy using tactics and positioning to bring down your foes, you’ll really love the echo knight. They’re easily a contender for strongest fighter subclass.