I was interested in this combination originally based upon solely fun little quirks like potentially shadow stepping as a panther or dire wolf. I do feel like druid is perfect for stat dumping into wisdom where the monk would need key stats like strength and dex (which I would normally dump if I were playing a druid). However I wanted to see if any one of you have played any combo of monk/druid and what your thoughts were (regardless if you have or have not) on potential scaling and flavor.
Monk/druid is one of those odd mixes that seems good but has trouble mixing.
That said, since your doing it for flavor.
Keep dexterity based forms in mind for combat if your going to use them tanky ones usually arent your friend. They have low dex which affects your ac. Also animal form attacks last i recall dont benefit from martial arts unless that has been changed.
I also don't know how high your wanting to go but the can be a bit of a wall for moon druid multi's where as they get a boost at low levels.
I have an Aang (lol) monk/tempest cleric right now, and they mesh remarkably well. I'm not sure I understand the prevailing complaints about Way of the Four Elements; it seems pretty strong too me, and definitely a more unique play style than punch n' stun, ala most every other monk.
The prevailing complaints tend to be from poor ki management which they feel more and litterally wanting to be Aang with ALL the powers instead of a normal bender or anything resembling a reasonable mix.
If you're going Moon Druid and not taking a level in Barbarian, Barkskin is almost required. Too many of the beast forms have low AC and you can't retain any DEX bonuses you have after Wildshaping. Dumping CON is not a good idea regardless due to how many gold level Druid spells requiring CON (like Barkskin).
Having your friend, the wizard, cast Mage Armor on you if you’re a Druid is even better than Barkskin is! The AC is usually 15 instead of 16 when you’re wild shaped, but you don’t have to make Concentration checks to maintain your AC plus it lasts for 8 hours instead of 1 hour. It requires teamwork, but it’s a great combo.
One of my favorite moves with this build is to take the Mobile feat and do hit and runs. Using the pounce feature of the Tiger to run up and pounce. And then run away for another pounce next turn.
At Druid 6, you get these CR2 options: (AC is based on 18 WIS at Druid 2, Monk 1)
The zealoraptor from Beasts of the Jungle Rot is also probably the strongest CR2 option and is Adventurers League legal.
Also note that you can use the monk's extra attack feature while wildshaped by taking the attack action instead of the beast's multiattack action. Take the pounce feature. This lets you make 2 claw attacks with the tiger, saber-toothed tiger, or zealoraptor and force the target(s) to make two saving throws, instead of one.
Finally, the beast's attacks count as weapon attacks for the purpose of doing stunning strikes.
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Well, a lot of spell choice depends on what kind of players and what classes are at the table. Some parties have no wizards/sorcerers. And sometimes you just need to shift into beast form because your party gets surprised. Unfortunately, the Druid's inability to communicate with other party members in most beast forms makes it difficult to ask for things or make multi-step plans unless your group already has a good rapport going. This helps balance the power of the class of course; it's just annoying unless you pick a race or multi-class to enable telepathy.
CR2 is only available to Circle of the Moon Druids.
All other druids are limited to CR1 at level 8. That is unless i'm not remembering a change to the class as a whole.
But even with the Moon Druid circle you still have to weigh several factors on whether it's actually worth it to take a level of monk. If your in a low level game that might not get that high level then your taking a gamble by slowing down your progression to get that level of Monk in and if your going through a long running campaign that is likely to max level you've got the issues that you have to give up one of the strongest capstones to take that single level. That level 20 capstone to be able to cast most druid spells while wild shaped AND unlimited wildshapes is extremely powerful. Likely far more powerful than your going to get from that single level of Monk and negating the need for the monk level in a lot of ways by reaching that max level. The monk level is only ever giving you a low to midlevel advantage anyway. Much like taking a level or two of Barbarian which a lot of people favor but actually isn't the best choice you can make.
@Sillva Re: claw attacks as Monk unarmed strike I think Jeremy Crawford ruled against that, so many DMs will also not allow that at table. Having played a Moon Druid myself, this was one of my frustrations (along with Unarmored Movement being not useful for my low AC beast forms) with trying to optimize the Druid. Anyway, I like the idea, but I needed to point out that it depends a lot on your particular DM.
I do believe many beasts have had their entries eratta'd to say melee weapon attack on their various different attacks if they didn't already state it for that very reason.
It's also another way that monks just aren't compatible with Druids like they would seem at first glance. With no unarmed attack and no ability to wield a monk weapon in most instances. There is just no way to apply a lot of the monks abilities. Also both classes function in a way that you want them to be your primary class if not only class because they have a lot of various abilities that scale based upon that specific class and not simply just level of the character. Such as Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts capabilities and Wildshape forms. All of which take a significant investment to really get the most out of.
I was interested in this combination originally based upon solely fun little quirks like potentially shadow stepping as a panther or dire wolf. I do feel like druid is perfect for stat dumping into wisdom where the monk would need key stats like strength and dex (which I would normally dump if I were playing a druid). However I wanted to see if any one of you have played any combo of monk/druid and what your thoughts were (regardless if you have or have not) on potential scaling and flavor.
Monk/druid is one of those odd mixes that seems good but has trouble mixing.
That said, since your doing it for flavor.
Keep dexterity based forms in mind for combat if your going to use them tanky ones usually arent your friend. They have low dex which affects your ac. Also animal form attacks last i recall dont benefit from martial arts unless that has been changed.
I also don't know how high your wanting to go but the can be a bit of a wall for moon druid multi's where as they get a boost at low levels.
I have an Aang (lol) monk/tempest cleric right now, and they mesh remarkably well. I'm not sure I understand the prevailing complaints about Way of the Four Elements; it seems pretty strong too me, and definitely a more unique play style than punch n' stun, ala most every other monk.
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The prevailing complaints tend to be from poor ki management which they feel more and litterally wanting to be Aang with ALL the powers instead of a normal bender or anything resembling a reasonable mix.
If you're going Moon Druid and not taking a level in Barbarian, Barkskin is almost required. Too many of the beast forms have low AC and you can't retain any DEX bonuses you have after Wildshaping. Dumping CON is not a good idea regardless due to how many gold level Druid spells requiring CON (like Barkskin).
Having your friend, the wizard, cast Mage Armor on you if you’re a Druid is even better than Barkskin is! The AC is usually 15 instead of 16 when you’re wild shaped, but you don’t have to make Concentration checks to maintain your AC plus it lasts for 8 hours instead of 1 hour. It requires teamwork, but it’s a great combo.
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I play a character like this. There are a few beasts that go well with this combination: (AC is based on 16 WIS at Druid 2, Monk 1)
- Tiger: darkvision, 15 DEX (15 AC)
- Giant Spider: darkvision, blindsight, spider climbing, 16 DEX (16 AC)
One of my favorite moves with this build is to take the Mobile feat and do hit and runs. Using the pounce feature of the Tiger to run up and pounce. And then run away for another pounce next turn.
At Druid 6, you get these CR2 options: (AC is based on 18 WIS at Druid 2, Monk 1)
- Saber-Toothed Tiger: 15 DEX (16 AC), more damage than tiger, more hit points
- Giant Constrictor Snake: blindsight, can apply restrained condition
- Giant Elk: great damage with above tactic
The zealoraptor from Beasts of the Jungle Rot is also probably the strongest CR2 option and is Adventurers League legal.
Also note that you can use the monk's extra attack feature while wildshaped by taking the attack action instead of the beast's multiattack action. Take the pounce feature. This lets you make 2 claw attacks with the tiger, saber-toothed tiger, or zealoraptor and force the target(s) to make two saving throws, instead of one.
Finally, the beast's attacks count as weapon attacks for the purpose of doing stunning strikes.
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Well, a lot of spell choice depends on what kind of players and what classes are at the table. Some parties have no wizards/sorcerers. And sometimes you just need to shift into beast form because your party gets surprised. Unfortunately, the Druid's inability to communicate with other party members in most beast forms makes it difficult to ask for things or make multi-step plans unless your group already has a good rapport going. This helps balance the power of the class of course; it's just annoying unless you pick a race or multi-class to enable telepathy.
CR2 is only available to Circle of the Moon Druids.
All other druids are limited to CR1 at level 8. That is unless i'm not remembering a change to the class as a whole.
But even with the Moon Druid circle you still have to weigh several factors on whether it's actually worth it to take a level of monk. If your in a low level game that might not get that high level then your taking a gamble by slowing down your progression to get that level of Monk in and if your going through a long running campaign that is likely to max level you've got the issues that you have to give up one of the strongest capstones to take that single level. That level 20 capstone to be able to cast most druid spells while wild shaped AND unlimited wildshapes is extremely powerful. Likely far more powerful than your going to get from that single level of Monk and negating the need for the monk level in a lot of ways by reaching that max level. The monk level is only ever giving you a low to midlevel advantage anyway. Much like taking a level or two of Barbarian which a lot of people favor but actually isn't the best choice you can make.
@Sillva Re: claw attacks as Monk unarmed strike I think Jeremy Crawford ruled against that, so many DMs will also not allow that at table. Having played a Moon Druid myself, this was one of my frustrations (along with Unarmored Movement being not useful for my low AC beast forms) with trying to optimize the Druid. Anyway, I like the idea, but I needed to point out that it depends a lot on your particular DM.
I do believe many beasts have had their entries eratta'd to say melee weapon attack on their various different attacks if they didn't already state it for that very reason.
It's also another way that monks just aren't compatible with Druids like they would seem at first glance. With no unarmed attack and no ability to wield a monk weapon in most instances. There is just no way to apply a lot of the monks abilities. Also both classes function in a way that you want them to be your primary class if not only class because they have a lot of various abilities that scale based upon that specific class and not simply just level of the character. Such as Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts capabilities and Wildshape forms. All of which take a significant investment to really get the most out of.