I don't think any of the Rogue subclasses can reasonably be considered overpowered. If I were you I would just read all of their abilities and decide which seems most fun to you.
Plus you still ignore the rest of the party so this 80% or whatever business is just white room math with no real application in any normal party.
When you say 'normal party' what do you mean?
This was brought up previously in that if the party (regardless of composition) is actively hindering the rogue's ability to successfully sneak up on an adversary then that is a problem with the party (not the subclass) and requires a conversation with the other party members. I mean, if (members of) the party are actively hindering the healer from being able to be as efficient as possible would you say that healer subclass is problematic?
Plus you still ignore the rest of the party so this 80% or whatever business is just white room math with no real application in any normal party.
When you say 'normal party' what do you mean?
This was brought up previously in that if the party (regardless of composition) is actively hindering the rogue's ability to successfully sneak up on an adversary then that is a problem with the party (not the subclass) and requires a conversation with the other party members. I mean, if (members of) the party are actively hindering the healer from being able to be as efficient as possible would you say that healer subclass is problematic?
It's a problem with the Subclass since it relies on a specific play style most of the time to work at all.
And you're example seems a bit odd as how would the party stop them from healing?
Not being very sneaky is just a possibility with a fair amount of builds where they aren't actively trying to make it hard for them but they could easily do it unintentionally just by being a paladin with heavy armor.
It's a problem with the Subclass since it relies on a specific play style most of the time to work at all.
So...the subclass is a problem because it requires the rogue to be ... sneaky?
And you're example seems a bit odd as how would the party stop them from healing?
Constantly moving out of range, standing in fire, never checking for traps, splitting DPS, etc. all things that make healers less efficient. It doesn't stop healers from being able to heal and I never suggested as such, just as lacking surprise doesn't prevent an Assassin rogue from being able to do damage, they just wouldn't be as efficient as they otherwise could be. And if the lack of surprise is coming from a DM that doesn't bother with that phase of combat or because of party members that don't take the strengths/weaknesses of their fellow adventurers into consideration it isn't the fault of the subclass.
Not being very sneaky is just a possibility with a fair amount of builds where they aren't actively trying to make it hard for them but they could easily do it unintentionally just by being a paladin with heavy armor.
As stated previously, if the party is actively (intentionally or otherwise) hindering the rogue from being as efficient as possible that is a party problem not a subclass problem. This can be fixed by simply having a conversation with the other party members and having an understanding of Marching Order.
It's a problem with the Subclass since it relies on a specific play style most of the time to work at all.
So...the subclass is a problem because it requires the rogue to be ... sneaky?
And you're example seems a bit odd as how would the party stop them from healing?
Constantly moving out of range, standing in fire, never checking for traps, splitting DPS, etc. all things that make healers less efficient. It doesn't stop healers from being able to heal and I never suggested as such, just as lacking surprise doesn't prevent an Assassin rogue from being able to do damage, they just wouldn't be as efficient as they otherwise could be. And if the lack of surprise is coming from a DM that doesn't bother with that phase of combat or because of party members that don't take the strengths/weaknesses of their fellow adventurers into consideration it isn't the fault of the subclass.
Not being very sneaky is just a possibility with a fair amount of builds where they aren't actively trying to make it hard for them but they could easily do it unintentionally just by being a paladin with heavy armor.
As stated previously, if the party is actively (intentionally or otherwise) hindering the rogue from being as efficient as possible that is a party problem not a subclass problem. This can be fixed by simply having a conversation with the other party members and having an understanding of Marching Order.
Agree to disagree I guess
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I don't think any of the Rogue subclasses can reasonably be considered overpowered. If I were you I would just read all of their abilities and decide which seems most fun to you.
When you say 'normal party' what do you mean?
This was brought up previously in that if the party (regardless of composition) is actively hindering the rogue's ability to successfully sneak up on an adversary then that is a problem with the party (not the subclass) and requires a conversation with the other party members. I mean, if (members of) the party are actively hindering the healer from being able to be as efficient as possible would you say that healer subclass is problematic?
A good book and a cup of tea.
Homebrew| Bard: College of Composition
Feedback Appreciated!
It's a problem with the Subclass since it relies on a specific play style most of the time to work at all.
And you're example seems a bit odd as how would the party stop them from healing?
Not being very sneaky is just a possibility with a fair amount of builds where they aren't actively trying to make it hard for them but they could easily do it unintentionally just by being a paladin with heavy armor.
So...the subclass is a problem because it requires the rogue to be ... sneaky?
Constantly moving out of range, standing in fire, never checking for traps, splitting DPS, etc. all things that make healers less efficient. It doesn't stop healers from being able to heal and I never suggested as such, just as lacking surprise doesn't prevent an Assassin rogue from being able to do damage, they just wouldn't be as efficient as they otherwise could be. And if the lack of surprise is coming from a DM that doesn't bother with that phase of combat or because of party members that don't take the strengths/weaknesses of their fellow adventurers into consideration it isn't the fault of the subclass.
As stated previously, if the party is actively (intentionally or otherwise) hindering the rogue from being as efficient as possible that is a party problem not a subclass problem. This can be fixed by simply having a conversation with the other party members and having an understanding of Marching Order.
A good book and a cup of tea.
Homebrew| Bard: College of Composition
Feedback Appreciated!
Agree to disagree I guess