So... i've got a dumb idea for a maybe one-shot game involving letting players pick from a pile of pre-made rogue characters. The general goal is going to be "Steal everything not nailed down, as a team." No high-brow complex heist mission, just a gang of thieves robbing people blind.
I'm hoping to endear teamwork and make my players think about how many diffrent options a single class has, and how many ways you can get your Sneak Attack off. Or clever ways to defang potentially dangerous enemies. (Get them engaged in combat with one party-member, then steal their pants, ect)
The rogue-class has a weirdly high variety of potential builds, so I feel like this idea has a lot of potential to it. I'm thinking level four for these characters, enough to give them each one feat (and a separate subclass) each or maybe a dip in some other class if appropriate.
I want build variety, so that's what i'm posting here for. Give me some ideas. They don't have to be powerful, they just have to be clever and diffrent.
I'll start by listing some build ideas.
Half-Orc STR-rogue with greatclub. Expertise with Athletics (Crusher feat?) Group muscle? Intimidation build? (Still proficient with stealth, naturally, but higher on str than dex)
Variant Human Human 'fighter' Actually Rogue with the Moderately Armoured feat giving him medium armour prof and a shield, and the Martial Adept feat, giving him some handpicked manoeuvres. (Disarming attack and Tactical Assessment? Have this one be the Mastermind subclass? Mastermind's 'help as a bonus action from 30meters away' is actually really useful for a gang of rogues who all need advantage to get their sneak attacks off. Plus, having someone who can make investigation checks would probably help them locate some decent loot.
Some sort of archer-archetype? Sneaky assassin with crossbow? Tabaxi for climb-speed to get up onto rooftops?
A changeling with the actor feat and expertise in deception/performance?
For plans... start out in a city, let the players get their feet wet and try robbing some people. Go easy with the guards (unless they leave a trail of corpses on mainstreet) maybe have them fight a rival gang or rob some small-time mob-boss?
Later, have them 'raid' a large bandit camp out in the woods by having them split up and each infiltrate in their own way. (raw stealth, invisibility, disguise, persuasion/deception/performance check to pretend that you're one of them?) The goal is not to kill the bandits, but to steal as much shit as you can carry and escape. Whoever has the most GP worth of loot at the end gets bonus exp. Thengo in and fight the bandits, who are now waking up to find that they can't find their swords (or their trousers) and all of their arrows have been tossed into the firepit and also someone put poison in their grog.
Basically, I want each player to have their own niche. They're all pretty good at general roguery, but some are better at fighting, some are better at persuading, one can pick your pocket as a bonus action, one can actually look at things and maybe spark a whole thought every now and then.
Toss in an Arcane trickster or maybe a trickery domain cleric for a little caster support.
I think a big thing to keep in mind is anyone can be a thief, as opposed to a rogue. A vengeance paladin whose idea of revenge is stealing from the rich people who wronged his family, and the society that let such conditions happen could be a thief. Just make them dex based with an urchin background and there you go. So, basically, not every thief needs to be a rogue.
That said, a str-based with a great club won’t be able to sneak attack. And most rogue skills depend on dex or cha. So if you mean for them to be a fighter or barb who’s part of the crew, that can be great, and while they may be a good thief, they won’t be a good rogue.
Also, why a 1-shot? Sounds like it could be a fun campaign idea. Just get buy in from the players. Then let them choose what they want to play, and leave it to them to explain how their monk or Ranger became part of the thieves guild. Then go from there. It’s a good seed of an idea.
When you say “I want each player to have their own niche. … some are better at fighting, some are better at persuading, one can pick your pocket as a bonus action, one can actually look at things and maybe spark a whole thought every now and then.” That describes pretty much every D&D party. So what you want to pull off shouldn’t really be too hard.
I honestly wouldn’t even bother making pregenerated PCs. Just pitch your idea and trust me, the players will come up with fantastic ideas for their larcenous crew. As Xalthu pointed out, not all thieves need to be rogues. A fighter with a heavy cudgel and a penchant for other people’s stuff is still a thief. They may brain someone to get it, or at least threaten to, but in the end as long as the stuff ends up in the fighter’s possession to the chagrin of its previous possessors, theft has occurred. A wizard who threatens to kill you burn your house down if you don’t give them all your stuff is still a thief too. What makes a thief is what they do, not necessarily how they do it.
I forgot that sneak attack needs finesse. I might just rule-zero that, or just have them be the distraction who fights people up-front so that everyone else can backstab. Maybe nix the greatclub guy and have the medium-armour + shield guy be the only str rogue.
OTOH, a str-based character with the Athlete feat gets a climb speed equal to their move-speed, and huge bonuses to Athletics, so maybe having lower stats in slight-of-hand and sneak wouldn't be a huge problem. Have him be the one climbing up into rooftops and kicking doors down, or something.
As for thieves/rogues, I want to mostly stick with the latter. The intent is to not give the party too much in-your-face combat power. I want them to be clever about it, instead of just slaughtering city guards head-on.
So when i'm talking about each playing having their own niche, i'm talking about within the rogue archetype.
But there's so many rogue subclasses that you have a pretty good spread regardless. Who needs a wizard when you have Arcane Trickster? Well, that being said I was debating letting some of them take a one-level-dip in another class (as opposed to everyone getting a feat at lvl 4) So a fighter-rogue is still on the table.
So... i've got a dumb idea for a maybe one-shot game involving letting players pick from a pile of pre-made rogue characters.
The general goal is going to be "Steal everything not nailed down, as a team."
No high-brow complex heist mission, just a gang of thieves robbing people blind.
I'm hoping to endear teamwork and make my players think about how many diffrent options a single class has, and how many ways you can get your Sneak Attack off. Or clever ways to defang potentially dangerous enemies. (Get them engaged in combat with one party-member, then steal their pants, ect)
The rogue-class has a weirdly high variety of potential builds, so I feel like this idea has a lot of potential to it.
I'm thinking level four for these characters, enough to give them each one feat (and a separate subclass) each or maybe a dip in some other class if appropriate.
I want build variety, so that's what i'm posting here for.
Give me some ideas. They don't have to be powerful, they just have to be clever and diffrent.
I'll start by listing some build ideas.
Group muscle? Intimidation build? (Still proficient with stealth, naturally, but higher on str than dex)
Actually Rogue with the Moderately Armoured feat giving him medium armour prof and a shield, and the Martial Adept feat, giving him some handpicked manoeuvres. (Disarming attack and Tactical Assessment? Have this one be the Mastermind subclass?
Mastermind's 'help as a bonus action from 30meters away' is actually really useful for a gang of rogues who all need advantage to get their sneak attacks off. Plus, having someone who can make investigation checks would probably help them locate some decent loot.
For plans... start out in a city, let the players get their feet wet and try robbing some people. Go easy with the guards (unless they leave a trail of corpses on mainstreet) maybe have them fight a rival gang or rob some small-time mob-boss?
Later, have them 'raid' a large bandit camp out in the woods by having them split up and each infiltrate in their own way. (raw stealth, invisibility, disguise, persuasion/deception/performance check to pretend that you're one of them?)
The goal is not to kill the bandits, but to steal as much shit as you can carry and escape. Whoever has the most GP worth of loot at the end gets bonus exp.
Then go in and fight the bandits, who are now waking up to find that they can't find their swords (or their trousers) and all of their arrows have been tossed into the firepit and also someone put poison in their grog.
Basically, I want each player to have their own niche. They're all pretty good at general roguery, but some are better at fighting, some are better at persuading, one can pick your pocket as a bonus action, one can actually look at things and maybe spark a whole thought every now and then.
Toss in an Arcane trickster or maybe a trickery domain cleric for a little caster support.
I think a big thing to keep in mind is anyone can be a thief, as opposed to a rogue. A vengeance paladin whose idea of revenge is stealing from the rich people who wronged his family, and the society that let such conditions happen could be a thief. Just make them dex based with an urchin background and there you go. So, basically, not every thief needs to be a rogue.
That said, a str-based with a great club won’t be able to sneak attack. And most rogue skills depend on dex or cha. So if you mean for them to be a fighter or barb who’s part of the crew, that can be great, and while they may be a good thief, they won’t be a good rogue.
Also, why a 1-shot? Sounds like it could be a fun campaign idea. Just get buy in from the players. Then let them choose what they want to play, and leave it to them to explain how their monk or Ranger became part of the thieves guild. Then go from there. It’s a good seed of an idea.
When you say “I want each player to have their own niche. … some are better at fighting, some are better at persuading, one can pick your pocket as a bonus action, one can actually look at things and maybe spark a whole thought every now and then.” That describes pretty much every D&D party. So what you want to pull off shouldn’t really be too hard.
I honestly wouldn’t even bother making pregenerated PCs. Just pitch your idea and trust me, the players will come up with fantastic ideas for their larcenous crew. As Xalthu pointed out, not all thieves need to be rogues. A fighter with a heavy cudgel and a penchant for other people’s stuff is still a thief. They may brain someone to get it, or at least threaten to, but in the end as long as the stuff ends up in the fighter’s possession to the chagrin of its previous possessors, theft has occurred. A wizard who threatens to kill you burn your house down if you don’t give them all your stuff is still a thief too. What makes a thief is what they do, not necessarily how they do it.
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I forgot that sneak attack needs finesse.
I might just rule-zero that, or just have them be the distraction who fights people up-front so that everyone else can backstab. Maybe nix the greatclub guy and have the medium-armour + shield guy be the only str rogue.
OTOH, a str-based character with the Athlete feat gets a climb speed equal to their move-speed, and huge bonuses to Athletics, so maybe having lower stats in slight-of-hand and sneak wouldn't be a huge problem.
Have him be the one climbing up into rooftops and kicking doors down, or something.
As for thieves/rogues, I want to mostly stick with the latter. The intent is to not give the party too much in-your-face combat power. I want them to be clever about it, instead of just slaughtering city guards head-on.
So when i'm talking about each playing having their own niche, i'm talking about within the rogue archetype.
But there's so many rogue subclasses that you have a pretty good spread regardless. Who needs a wizard when you have Arcane Trickster?
Well, that being said I was debating letting some of them take a one-level-dip in another class (as opposed to everyone getting a feat at lvl 4)
So a fighter-rogue is still on the table.
sneak attack requires weapon with finesse property, or ranged weapon, say a str 16 dex 14 half orc with a rapier and shortsword...