I think people are forgetting some key points about sorcerer...
1. Sorcerers can go beyond normal action economy with their metamagic. Twinned spell doubles a cast (yes, with caveats) meaning you get twice the bang for your spell slot AND your concentration. Quickened spell allows you to bonus action cast, which means you can get a grand total of 3 casts in one turn as a sorcerer (one leveled spell and two cantrips). Wizard cannot keep up with that action economy -- any time there is an initiative order the sorcerer has an advantage.
If you take two levels in fighter you can twin spell twice for a total effect of four casts of a leveled spell... how many baddies want to face 4 casts of disintegrate in 6s (yes, yes, only 2 casts per target and this will cost a lot of sp, it still is a brutal opening to a fight...)
2. Sorcerers ALSO can recover spell slots, and unlike the wizard, can do so IN COMBAT. This gives the sorc the resources they need WHEN they need it. The conversion between sorcery points and spell slots is a very powerful feature.
3. While some wizard features are more impressive than some sorcerer features, the opposite is also true. Many sorc subclass get non-concentration flight, which is quite good for defense. The divine soul gets improved spell lists and a powerful saving throw feature. The wild mage gets free upcasting on top of the wildmagic surge table WHICH CAN BREAK ACTION ECONOMY FURTHER... wild magic also gets to bend luck to get clutch failures on enemy saves. Shadow sorc gets to impose disadvantage on enemy saves for cheap on top of being mobile and able to abuse darkness....
15 spells is a limitation, but to be honest you only need around 5-8 core spells (counterspell/dispel, a couple damage options and a couple good control options) and the rest can either be utility or theme driven. Its not THAT bad a limitation.
your last line shows you have very little experience playing a sorcerer. your post indicates you believe a sorcerer can use metamagic extensively which is patently false. you only get 1 point per sorcerer lvl which only restored on a long rest unless you convert slots to points at a very costly rate. its not a 1 for 1 conversion for example a 3rd lvl slot converts to 3 sorcery points but take the same 3 sorcery points and that can only be converted to a single 2nd level slot. Twin spell isn't something a sorcerer can do more than 1 or 2 times per day given it costs 1 point per level of the spell being twinned. Quicken is indeed good but you can only cast a cantrip with your action then not another spell. Sorcerer have the same 1 spell per turn limitation that wizard and other casters have. Also your example of the fighter could be applied to an enchantment wizard as well. Also wizard casting and sorcerer casting are not the equivalent due to sorcerer's having arguably one of the worst spell lists in the game and wizards have the best spell list in the game.
Also the sorcerer has access to hardly any decent utility spells they are pretty much pigeonholed into being a blaster. Bear in mind as well that once your out of your sorcery points you are essentially a npc class. I will admit almost all of these points fall flat if you play in a campaign where there is only 1 encounter per adventuring day. The less encounters per day you have the better the sorcerer is/feels however if you have the 3-5 that the game is designed around it becomes apparent how weak the sorcerer is compared to the rest of the full spell casting classes.
Ah yes, because my experiences are different than yours so mine must be false, invalid and unworthy of consideration! Very sound argumentation! I bow to your brilliant use of the ad hominem, good sir or madam! /s
You do only get one sorcery point per level, but most metamagic options cost between 1 and 3 points. Quicken is 2, which alone already brings sorcerer ahead in terms of action economy. Being able to add 4d10 damage in a turn that you blasted someone is considerable, as is the ability to get off a control spell and still put out damage that turn. Also, Twinned spell is significantly cheaper on lower level spells, I used disintegrate as an extreme example. A Sorcerer could easily quicken a 3rd level fireball and Twin a firebolt to cast 3 spells without multiclassing, dealing 8d6 to an area and an additional 4d10 to two targets... all for a 3rd level spell slot and 3 sorcery points in total. That is CHEAP
Your 1 sp per level also lets you get back 40% more spell slots than a wizard can manage with arcane recovery -- A lvl20 wizard can regain a total of 10 spell levels over a short rest, once per day; a lvl 20 sorcerer without stopping for a breather can recover 14 spell levels, and that is without cannibalizing other spell slots or using the Sorcerous Recovery feature. Does that mean you are not using metamagic without converting spell slots back into sp or using Sorcerous Recovery? sure, but that is a tactical choice you can make, and you can choose to lower yourself to a wizards level and still have some points to play with metamagic. The ability to get a spell slot in your hand when you need it is invaluable. How many times have you wished you had a spell slot left for a key spell (lets say... counterspell?) near the end of a major fight? A sorcerer can get that.
Sorcerers do NOT have the same one spell per turn limitation due to twinned spell and quickened spell. They must abide by the bonus action spell rule, but both of these metamagics explicitly allow multiple spells to be cast in the same turn. A Sorcerer with access to action surge can cast Disintegrate 4 times in a single round (costs 13 sorcery points), that is NOT comparable to what a wizard can do with action surge. Your example of an Enchantment Wizard is also not quite accurate: this scenario is limited to enchantment spells that target one creature, so you are essentially bound by your concentration unless you are casting a Charm Person or Charm Monster OR are using a power word... Two hold person/monsters and two power word stuns is potent, I'll admit, but that is essentially the limit of what you can do and power words are often tricky to pull off; the Sorcerer's twinned spell has many more options and use-cases.
Heightened spell imposing disadvantage also means that a Sorcerer's control spells are more likely to be successful, essentially adding +5 to your save dc on average due to how advantage/disadvantage is calculated.
Sure, the sorcerer spell list is shorter than the wizard list. Big whoop. There are some really nice wizard spells, but there are plenty of good spells on the sorcerer's list, including some utility spells NOT on the wizards. Enhance Ability is a solid early game utility spell that doesn't appear on the wizard list but does show up on the sorcerer's, for instance. You have plenty of utility... invisibilities... illusions.. arcane gate... polymorph... gaseous form... creation... and thats without going off-label. Also.. no, once your 'out of sorcery points' you aren't an npc class.. you are a wizard... You still have your subclass features, just as a wizard would, you still have your spellcasting, just as a wizard would..
Oh, and look at that, you decided to wrap up your post by disparaging the tables I play at, very classy... and for your information, I am very much used to multiple encounters a day, thank you for your condescending consideration...
Ah yes, because my experiences are different than yours so mine must be false, invalid and unworthy of consideration! Very sound argumentation! I bow to your brilliant use of the ad hominem, good sir or madam! /s
You do only get one sorcery point per level, but most metamagic options cost between 1 and 3 points. Quicken is 2, which alone already brings sorcerer ahead in terms of action economy. Being able to add 4d10 damage in a turn that you blasted someone is considerable, as is the ability to get off a control spell and still put out damage that turn. Also, Twinned spell is significantly cheaper on lower level spells, I used disintegrate as an extreme example. A Sorcerer could easily quicken a 3rd level fireball and Twin a firebolt to cast 3 spells without multiclassing, dealing 8d6 to an area and an additional 4d10 to two targets... all for a 3rd level spell slot and 3 sorcery points in total. That is CHEAP
Your 1 sp per level also lets you get back 40% more spell slots than a wizard can manage with arcane recovery -- A lvl20 wizard can regain a total of 10 spell levels over a short rest, once per day; a lvl 20 sorcerer without stopping for a breather can recover 14 spell levels, and that is without cannibalizing other spell slots or using the Sorcerous Recovery feature. Does that mean you are not using metamagic without converting spell slots back into sp or using Sorcerous Recovery? sure, but that is a tactical choice you can make, and you can choose to lower yourself to a wizards level and still have some points to play with metamagic. The ability to get a spell slot in your hand when you need it is invaluable. How many times have you wished you had a spell slot left for a key spell (lets say... counterspell?) near the end of a major fight? A sorcerer can get that.
Sorcerers do NOT have the same one spell per turn limitation due to twinned spell and quickened spell. They must abide by the bonus action spell rule, but both of these metamagics explicitly allow multiple spells to be cast in the same turn. A Sorcerer with access to action surge can cast Disintegrate 4 times in a single round (costs 13 sorcery points), that is NOT comparable to what a wizard can do with action surge. Your example of an Enchantment Wizard is also not quite accurate: this scenario is limited to enchantment spells that target one creature, so you are essentially bound by your concentration unless you are casting a Charm Person or Charm Monster OR are using a power word... Two hold person/monsters and two power word stuns is potent, I'll admit, but that is essentially the limit of what you can do and power words are often tricky to pull off; the Sorcerer's twinned spell has many more options and use-cases.
Heightened spell imposing disadvantage also means that a Sorcerer's control spells are more likely to be successful, essentially adding +5 to your save dc on average due to how advantage/disadvantage is calculated.
Sure, the sorcerer spell list is shorter than the wizard list. Big whoop. There are some really nice wizard spells, but there are plenty of good spells on the sorcerer's list, including some utility spells NOT on the wizards. Enhance Ability is a solid early game utility spell that doesn't appear on the wizard list but does show up on the sorcerer's, for instance. You have plenty of utility... invisibilities... illusions.. arcane gate... polymorph... gaseous form... creation... and thats without going off-label. Also.. no, once your 'out of sorcery points' you aren't an npc class.. you are a wizard... You still have your subclass features, just as a wizard would, you still have your spellcasting, just as a wizard would..
Oh, and look at that, you decided to wrap up your post by disparaging the tables I play at, very classy... and for your information, I am very much used to multiple encounters a day, thank you for your condescending consideration...
im not attacking you but pretty much the entire gaming community acknowledges the class needs a rework. Comparing classes at 20th level does not add value to this discussion. Classes should be compared based on what the player will actually experience which WOTC did a survey IIRC most games end around 10th level. I do want to point out that 20 sp does not equal 14 spell levels. 1 spell level = 2 sorcery points for a 1st level spell but depending on the slot recovered scales to 7 sorcery points for a 5th level spell. Its difficult to directly compare the sorcerer font of magic and arcane recovery. It depends on what distribution the wizard is using 10 1st level spells would be 20 sorcery points to 2 5th level slots for 14 sorcery points. It further gets muddled when you factor in the unlimited spell castings a wizard gets at high levels.
Unfortunately sorcerers do not get much other than metamagic as features go especially at the levels most campaigns go to. Sure some of the origins give flight but not until 14th+ level so most of the player base will never get to use it so its essentially doesn't exist.
Metamagic is powerful but a sorcerer experiences the same problem most tables have with consumable magic items hoarding those points afraid to use them in fear they will be needed later. So what happens is they don't get used. A feature that doesn't get used means your essentially not getting a class feature this compounded by the fact that their spell list is the worst full spell casting class spell list in the game and they only get 15 spells over 20 levels. Break it down to 10th level the sorcerer only gets 11 spells compare that with say the ranger who gets 9 (3 add spells known from archetype) its clear the sorcerer needs alot of work.
Also enchantment wizard is limited to twin on enchantment spells only however its done as much as he wants the sorcerer needs to spend points to do that. Heightened spell only effects the 1st saving throw not the entire spell. So the enchantment wizard can pull off those spells with action surge every short rest so they would be able to do it 3 times as often as the sorcerer based on the DMG assumption of 2 short rests per day. So it may stick for a turn but after that its the same as if any other caster had cast the spell.
The spells known limitation is big problem because it makes the class inaccessible to newer players. You pick a spell your stuck with it until you level up at which point you can swap a single spell. The wizard who has no spell known limitation what so ever. That player is now not going to have fun which means the class is poorly designed. The spell list needs some work since there are very few broadly applicable utility spells across the 1st-3rd spell levels (where the majority of play takes place). If a player decides to take one of the few utility spells and it doesn't fit the challenges the party is facing they are now playing down a spell known. I have played the class extensively across multiple editions. The designers took the defining essence of the sorcerer and gave it to prepared classes but then never looked back at the sorcerer thats the primary cause of its issues. So what I mean by that is originally a wizard/cleric/druid/etc had to prep each spell slot at the beginning of the day. When they designed 5e they instead made all casting spontaneous in essence. Now a wizard/cleric/druid/paladin/etc picks the spells they know for the day and can use their slots however they choose. This was the defining essence of the sorcerer class which is fine I understand they did this to make the game more accessible but no counter balance was done to make up for this class imbalance. On top of that the sorcerer knew 43 spells over 20 levels they cut that to 15. The only thing they did was give them exclusive access to metamagic.
Ah yes, because my experiences are different than yours so mine must be false, invalid and unworthy of consideration! Very sound argumentation! I bow to your brilliant use of the ad hominem, good sir or madam! /s
You do only get one sorcery point per level, but most metamagic options cost between 1 and 3 points. Quicken is 2, which alone already brings sorcerer ahead in terms of action economy. Being able to add 4d10 damage in a turn that you blasted someone is considerable, as is the ability to get off a control spell and still put out damage that turn. Also, Twinned spell is significantly cheaper on lower level spells, I used disintegrate as an extreme example. A Sorcerer could easily quicken a 3rd level fireball and Twin a firebolt to cast 3 spells without multiclassing, dealing 8d6 to an area and an additional 4d10 to two targets... all for a 3rd level spell slot and 3 sorcery points in total. That is CHEAP
Your 1 sp per level also lets you get back 40% more spell slots than a wizard can manage with arcane recovery -- A lvl20 wizard can regain a total of 10 spell levels over a short rest, once per day; a lvl 20 sorcerer without stopping for a breather can recover 14 spell levels, and that is without cannibalizing other spell slots or using the Sorcerous Recovery feature. Does that mean you are not using metamagic without converting spell slots back into sp or using Sorcerous Recovery? sure, but that is a tactical choice you can make, and you can choose to lower yourself to a wizards level and still have some points to play with metamagic. The ability to get a spell slot in your hand when you need it is invaluable. How many times have you wished you had a spell slot left for a key spell (lets say... counterspell?) near the end of a major fight? A sorcerer can get that.
Sorcerers do NOT have the same one spell per turn limitation due to twinned spell and quickened spell. They must abide by the bonus action spell rule, but both of these metamagics explicitly allow multiple spells to be cast in the same turn. A Sorcerer with access to action surge can cast Disintegrate 4 times in a single round (costs 13 sorcery points), that is NOT comparable to what a wizard can do with action surge. Your example of an Enchantment Wizard is also not quite accurate: this scenario is limited to enchantment spells that target one creature, so you are essentially bound by your concentration unless you are casting a Charm Person or Charm Monster OR are using a power word... Two hold person/monsters and two power word stuns is potent, I'll admit, but that is essentially the limit of what you can do and power words are often tricky to pull off; the Sorcerer's twinned spell has many more options and use-cases.
Heightened spell imposing disadvantage also means that a Sorcerer's control spells are more likely to be successful, essentially adding +5 to your save dc on average due to how advantage/disadvantage is calculated.
Sure, the sorcerer spell list is shorter than the wizard list. Big whoop. There are some really nice wizard spells, but there are plenty of good spells on the sorcerer's list, including some utility spells NOT on the wizards. Enhance Ability is a solid early game utility spell that doesn't appear on the wizard list but does show up on the sorcerer's, for instance. You have plenty of utility... invisibilities... illusions.. arcane gate... polymorph... gaseous form... creation... and thats without going off-label. Also.. no, once your 'out of sorcery points' you aren't an npc class.. you are a wizard... You still have your subclass features, just as a wizard would, you still have your spellcasting, just as a wizard would..
Oh, and look at that, you decided to wrap up your post by disparaging the tables I play at, very classy... and for your information, I am very much used to multiple encounters a day, thank you for your condescending consideration...
im not attacking you but pretty much the entire gaming community acknowledges the class needs a rework. Comparing classes at 20th level does not add value to this discussion. Classes should be compared based on what the player will actually experience which WOTC did a survey IIRC most games end around 10th level. I do want to point out that 20 sp does not equal 14 spell levels. 1 spell level = 2 sorcery points for a 1st level spell but depending on the slot recovered scales to 7 sorcery points for a 5th level spell. Its difficult to directly compare the sorcerer font of magic and arcane recovery. It depends on what distribution the wizard is using 10 1st level spells would be 20 sorcery points to 2 5th level slots for 14 sorcery points. It further gets muddled when you factor in the unlimited spell castings a wizard gets at high levels.
Unfortunately sorcerers do not get much other than metamagic as features go especially at the levels most campaigns go to. Sure some of the origins give flight but not until 14th+ level so most of the player base will never get to use it so its essentially doesn't exist.
Metamagic is powerful but a sorcerer experiences the same problem most tables have with consumable magic items hoarding those points afraid to use them in fear they will be needed later. So what happens is they don't get used. A feature that doesn't get used means your essentially not getting a class feature this compounded by the fact that their spell list is the worst full spell casting class spell list in the game and they only get 15 spells over 20 levels. Break it down to 10th level the sorcerer only gets 11 spells compare that with say the ranger who gets 9 (3 add spells known from archetype) its clear the sorcerer needs alot of work.
Also enchantment wizard is limited to twin on enchantment spells only however its done as much as he wants the sorcerer needs to spend points to do that. Heightened spell only effects the 1st saving throw not the entire spell. So the enchantment wizard can pull off those spells with action surge every short rest so they would be able to do it 3 times as often as the sorcerer based on the DMG assumption of 2 short rests per day. So it may stick for a turn but after that its the same as if any other caster had cast the spell.
The spells known limitation is big problem because it makes the class inaccessible to newer players. You pick a spell your stuck with it until you level up at which point you can swap a single spell. The wizard who has no spell known limitation what so ever. That player is now not going to have fun which means the class is poorly designed. The spell list needs some work since there are very few broadly applicable utility spells across the 1st-3rd spell levels (where the majority of play takes place). If a player decides to take one of the few utility spells and it doesn't fit the challenges the party is facing they are now playing down a spell known. I have played the class extensively across multiple editions. The designers took the defining essence of the sorcerer and gave it to prepared classes but then never looked back at the sorcerer thats the primary cause of its issues. So what I mean by that is originally a wizard/cleric/druid/etc had to prep each spell slot at the beginning of the day. When they designed 5e they instead made all casting spontaneous in essence. Now a wizard/cleric/druid/paladin/etc picks the spells they know for the day and can use their slots however they choose. This was the defining essence of the sorcerer class which is fine I understand they did this to make the game more accessible but no counter balance was done to make up for this class imbalance. On top of that the sorcerer knew 43 spells over 20 levels they cut that to 15. The only thing they did was give them exclusive access to metamagic.
The very first line of the post that this quote responds to was you attempting to invalidate my position by saying "your last line shows you have very little experience playing sorcerer" without any knowledge of my experience. That is indeed trying to discredit me instead of dealing with my positions. That is by definition an ad hominem fallacy.
20 sp does indeed equal 14 spell levels, because, as your own post here shows, you can get two 5th level slots for 14sp, which leaves you with 6... the precise number needed to get a 4th level slot. 5+5+4=14... But sure, lets take your argument that most games don't reach 20th level; you use 10th level as a reference point further in your post, so lets use that. A 10th level wizard can use arcane recovery to get 5 spell levels back... a 10th level sorcerer can get 7 spell levels back.. again, without a short rest. They can refuel right when they need to cast a critical spell. Turns out the balance is the same. Half the level, half the returns. You still can recover as much as a wizard and have some points for a metamagic spell.
I do not accept your 'hoarding' argument, as that is entirely dependent on an individual player. Such a player could also hoard any other resource, including spell slots, invalidating any amount of the capability of their character. As such, it is not a sorcerer specific problem, but rather one innate to particular players.
You repeat your arguments about spells known and spell list without addressing my positions, so I feel no particular need to rebut them again here... but I would suggest the next time you play a caster you keep track of the number of spells you use regularly. I would suspect that you find that there are many spells you don't end up casting nearly as much as you think you do; it is nice to have them available, for sure, but there is generally a staple few spells that players fall back on. A caster has a couple pet damage options, a couple favorite control spells and a couple favorite defense spells, beyond that things are much more sporadic or situational. Preparation casters can slot in a niche spell for a specific challenge, which is a strength to be certain, but while these niche spells can expedite an adventure they are rarely the only option. There is also benefit to not having a particular tool: it creates more content. You either have to mcguyver a solution or embark on a sidequest to fix the problem, both of which add memorable moments to the game, especially when compared to "Mr wizard waves his fingers". Later in this post I will outline just how utility driven a sorcerer can be.
Your paragraph on enchantment wizard is a little muddled, but I'll address both points. First, while heightened spell does only effect the initial saving throw, it can mean the difference between a wasted spell slot and one round of hold monster or whatever your control spell of choice is. I will take a wasted monster turn over wasting my turn any day of the week. It can also result in total shut downs if you use a spell that shifts from an initial saving throw to an ability check, such as Maximilian's Earthen Grasp -- losing out on save proficiency can mean that it is much more likely that the target remains trapped by the spell. As for your portions regarding Enchantment wizard, the specific level isn't addressed. Let us assume the same, level 10, so that it is within what you consider reachable for most players and still actually having the Split Enchantment feature. What level of spell is being twinned or split? An enchantment wizard could split enchantment a hold monster, but then it would have to use its concentration on that, meaning that its action surge would necessarily have to not use a concentration based spell; as lvl10 requires we have 5th level spells and below, that means you could split enchantment a charm person or a charm monster as these are the only non-concentration enchantment spells that do not target multiple creatures. Not... bad? but not particularly useful, especially since they get advantage on the save if it is an active combat... and RAW charmed just means they can't attack YOU, it doesn't stop them from attacking your allies -- you would at the minimum need to pass a persuasion check, which RAW would need to occur as an action on a subsequent turn. Perhaps with table rulings it would be alright. The sorcerer, on the other hand, could quad-cast several spells depending on the spell level cast. If you want to go for the biggest guns, it would probably be Blight at this level, for a total of 32d8 damage in the round, you could do that two times (assuming no spell slot conversion and 2 short rests) or 3 times if you convert a single 5th level slot... but sorcerer doesn't have the same limitations as Enchantment Wizard, so you could go for many more options... like twinned haste, action surge, twinned blight, or twinned hold monster, action surge, twinned chromatic orb at 4th level for some crit fish and avoiding the Constitution save of Blight. Enchantment wizard allows for a pale imitation of twinned spell; slightly better at the task when it comes to enchantment spells, but with none of the range of options that twinned gives you.
The thing with spells known on the sorcerer is you have to factor in spell versatility. On a wizard, you can buy spell scrolls to scribe and you get a huge number from level up, so you can pick and choose the ones you want with less rigor. I would personally say that it is not necessarily easier on a new player to play wizard because of information overload. A new player has to learn all the spell effects to make informed decisions for any caster, so having more moving parts to keep track of is actually harder. A sorcerer player can read through what spells do once and make a decision for what they want. A wizard has to keep that information retained because they will be preparing a spell once in a blue moon. A sorcerer needs to pick spells with multiple applications. Spells like Chromatic Orb, which allows you to change the damage type, or spells like Alter Self, which is both a disguise and a utility spell for swimming -- many dms will allow off label uses provided that the effect you are going for isn't extreme, but that is a table to table difference. You mention a lack of 1st to 3rd utility spells, here are some sorcerer problem solving spells in that range: Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Silent Image, Alter Self, Detect Thoughts, Enhance Ability, Invisibility, Knock, Misty Step, Suggestion, Clairvoyance, Fly, Gaseous Form, Major Image, Tongues! There are more, but that is already a full sorcerer's spell selection with 15 entries, all of utility spells in 1st to 3rd's. If you take a look, several of these are multi purpose. Alter Self, Enhance Ability, Misty Step, Suggestion and Gaseous Form cover a wide range of uses, from social interactions, to exploration, to puzzle solving, to combat and defense; this list is also a third of the spells known for a sorc, which is approximately what I'd allocate for utility (maybe a few more depending on how thematic I want my damage/control options). Depending on your campaign some may make more sense than others as well, such as detect thoughts in a political based scenario.
I don't deny that 15 spells known is a limitation, I just don't find it to be as confining as others do... I don't find it that bad. I enjoy creative spell use. I enjoy solving problems with imperfect tools. One of the best parts of D&D is that for the most part you can do anything. Provided that you a clear enough in your explanation of what you want to do, and there is a reasonable level of realism, dm's generally will allow things to happen... though it might require a hard dc skill check or something but you can at least try, and well... a table that sits there and says 'no' until you do exactly what the dm wants you to do is honestly not one I care to sit at.
EDIT: late night math doesn't bode well, struck through section.
D&D isnt really a pvp game, and in instances of pvp it generally does come down to initiative. If you are going to say a particular class would win (not a particular subclass) then you really need to compare base features. This is because some subclasses from one of the contenders have favorable matchups against some subclasses from the other contender. Chronurgist is op, and wins about anything with its capstone, for instance, but a wildmagic sorcerer would win against a transmuter wizard.
If you are looking at base features, the sorcerer does come out ahead with greater spell slot recovery options and metamagic. Heightened spell is also a key ability that helps the sorcerer in a direct contest -- wizards need to rely on subclasses to effect enemy saves, but the sorc has it built into the core class.
Chronurgist, Abjurers, and Diviners are the 3 most likely subclasses to win. If you think sorcerers will, select the best options, which I'd probably say are Draconic, Shadow, and Divine Soul sorcerers.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I would replace draconic with wildmagic. Bend luck on top of heightened spell is as near a sure thing as a portent, without the need to have a particular portent in hand. Shadow is alright, between the hound of ill omen and umbral form you can do a bit, and yah, divine soul getting the cleric spell list opens up lots of opportunities in addition to the saving throw boost.
I dont particularly like comparing chronurgist to things, precisely because it has an "i win button", it doesn't abide by the same balance logic of other classes.
Not necessarily, they can get extra spell slots, and do a lot of other OP stuff. Hexblade is just a good multiclass option, and sorcerers can multiclass to warlock well.
I played this build an had a lot of fun. Portent, Find Familiar, and gaining access to using a spell book for ritual casting (not stat dependent) expanded the character's capabilities a lot. Dragging slightly behind for a couple levels didn't bother me and the versatility was very worth it. Also, Portent is brutal to pull out against an opponent. I always squeed a little when I rolled lower than a 5 on them and the GM just groaned, haha.
Portent: When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
One thing that I think is often overlooked for Sorcerers is their utility in social situations with subtle spell. Being able to cast a spell without anyone having a way to know who did it can be very useful. Dominate person on the high ranking official can be very useful.
Also, I recommend sorcerer for new players since it means having a lot less spells to have to learn.
Definitely on my favorite metamagic abilities list. My personal first choices are: Subtle, Quickened, and Twinned. These are the ones that can define and change almost any encounter in the game from combat to social, in my opinion. Subtle casting is a monster ability for how cheap it is, and allows a lot more versatility to be effective without drawing attention.
One thing that does get overlooked is the sorcerer's proficiency when it comes to CON saves. That's a huge advantage when it comes to whether or not you will lose concentration on a spell or not. Pair that with twin and you can concentrate on two spells at once which is pretty cool. Being able to keep Haste up on two party members even after you get hit can be the difference between success and a TPK.
I didn't see this mentioned so highlighting this: Quicken Spell means you can do great things with your action economy for survive-ability. For newer players especially remember you can DASH, DODGE & DISENGAGE as an ACTION. Sorry for the caps but again just driving it in for newer players.
Eg1. The big boss has got to within 5ft of you, action = Disengage, run 30ft away and for 1 sorc point quicken that fireball in his face (though Chromatic Orb might be better, especially if its vulnerable to something). I killed a boss this way in game by doing double damage (Level 4).
Eg2 Boss gets within 10ft of you by dashing, so move away 30ft, action = Dash for another 30ft, then quicken that save or die spell in his face, from a safe distance (Kiting dependent on actual move rates obvs).
Eg3. No way out and need to survive until your team can help? Action = Dodge, quicken = Blade Ward, and using no spell slots mobs start with disadvantage and you have 50% resistance to most attacks (But depends on mobs, obvs). Have that shield ready! (You team may also thank you for using up the mobs actions).
Also do not assume quicken a spell+cantrip is the way to go, at lvl 5 you can pump up to 4d10 with cantrips, or 4d10+10 if lvl 6 (Dragon sorc).
Point is you got some plays in your book and some can be clutch. Also, re the quote below: I subtle spell cast fly before you get close, go 60ft straight up, free action say "try kicking my ass now" and then start slinging spells in your face/ maybe go another 60ft up after initiative rolled :)
And finally as a general rule - No weapon is all-powerful on its own, it is the wielder that determines that power. Or, if you prefer, If the shoe don't fit choose another, plenty out there to choose from.
Point is you got some plays in your book and some can be clutch. Also, re the quote below: I subtle spell cast fly before you get close, go 60ft straight up, free action say "try kicking my ass now" and then start slinging spells in your face/ maybe go another 60ft up after initiative rolled :)
Point is you got some plays in your book and some can be clutch. Also, re the quote below: I subtle spell cast fly before you get close, go 60ft straight up, free action say "try kicking my ass now" and then start slinging spells in your face/ maybe go another 60ft up after initiative rolled :)
There's no reason to pick Sorcerer over Wizard, unless if you're tired of having access to every spell in the game.
For people with imagination, the Grimoire is the most powerful passive.
PVP wise: barbarians will kick your magical ass, regardless.
Barbarian: "Oh no! call an ambulance, call an ambulance...
*draws infused long bow repeater*
... but not for me!"
Staggered by the barbarian drawing a weird looking longbow, gets distracted, takes a hit, loses concentration but out of desperation cast polymorph - Mammoth and lands rear end on the Barbarian.
Technically that means I died with you kissing my ass not kicking my ass :). After being raised we both agree never to speak of this again, or the Barb gets drunk and tells everyone in the tavern because , you know, Barb.
Wizards really do make sorcerers pointless. If you want to play a fun sorcerer, pick warlock or wizard.
Sorcerer is mechanically ok technically if you pick the right spells, but it's easy to fall into trap options and end up useless. It's also mechanically boring af, as once you've used your tiny amount of metamagic, as was stated above by another user, it's basically an NPC class.
At this point I think the sorcerer lacks so much mechanical identity I don't think it should have been in 5e as a class, and metamagic should have remained a feat for all casters like with earlier editions. Sorcerers special thing was spontaneous casting, which all casters now get.
Thematically sorcerer is my favourite class, but I wouldn't dream of playing one anymore now I've played some other classes to compare and just found them so much more fun.
your last line shows you have very little experience playing a sorcerer. your post indicates you believe a sorcerer can use metamagic extensively which is patently false. you only get 1 point per sorcerer lvl which only restored on a long rest unless you convert slots to points at a very costly rate. its not a 1 for 1 conversion for example a 3rd lvl slot converts to 3 sorcery points but take the same 3 sorcery points and that can only be converted to a single 2nd level slot. Twin spell isn't something a sorcerer can do more than 1 or 2 times per day given it costs 1 point per level of the spell being twinned. Quicken is indeed good but you can only cast a cantrip with your action then not another spell. Sorcerer have the same 1 spell per turn limitation that wizard and other casters have. Also your example of the fighter could be applied to an enchantment wizard as well. Also wizard casting and sorcerer casting are not the equivalent due to sorcerer's having arguably one of the worst spell lists in the game and wizards have the best spell list in the game.
Also the sorcerer has access to hardly any decent utility spells they are pretty much pigeonholed into being a blaster. Bear in mind as well that once your out of your sorcery points you are essentially a npc class. I will admit almost all of these points fall flat if you play in a campaign where there is only 1 encounter per adventuring day. The less encounters per day you have the better the sorcerer is/feels however if you have the 3-5 that the game is designed around it becomes apparent how weak the sorcerer is compared to the rest of the full spell casting classes.
Ah yes, because my experiences are different than yours so mine must be false, invalid and unworthy of consideration! Very sound argumentation! I bow to your brilliant use of the ad hominem, good sir or madam! /s
You do only get one sorcery point per level, but most metamagic options cost between 1 and 3 points. Quicken is 2, which alone already brings sorcerer ahead in terms of action economy. Being able to add 4d10 damage in a turn that you blasted someone is considerable, as is the ability to get off a control spell and still put out damage that turn. Also, Twinned spell is significantly cheaper on lower level spells, I used disintegrate as an extreme example. A Sorcerer could easily quicken a 3rd level fireball and Twin a firebolt to cast 3 spells without multiclassing, dealing 8d6 to an area and an additional 4d10 to two targets... all for a 3rd level spell slot and 3 sorcery points in total. That is CHEAP
Your 1 sp per level also lets you get back 40% more spell slots than a wizard can manage with arcane recovery -- A lvl20 wizard can regain a total of 10 spell levels over a short rest, once per day; a lvl 20 sorcerer without stopping for a breather can recover 14 spell levels, and that is without cannibalizing other spell slots or using the Sorcerous Recovery feature. Does that mean you are not using metamagic without converting spell slots back into sp or using Sorcerous Recovery? sure, but that is a tactical choice you can make, and you can choose to lower yourself to a wizards level and still have some points to play with metamagic. The ability to get a spell slot in your hand when you need it is invaluable. How many times have you wished you had a spell slot left for a key spell (lets say... counterspell?) near the end of a major fight? A sorcerer can get that.
Sorcerers do NOT have the same one spell per turn limitation due to twinned spell and quickened spell. They must abide by the bonus action spell rule, but both of these metamagics explicitly allow multiple spells to be cast in the same turn. A Sorcerer with access to action surge can cast Disintegrate 4 times in a single round (costs 13 sorcery points), that is NOT comparable to what a wizard can do with action surge. Your example of an Enchantment Wizard is also not quite accurate: this scenario is limited to enchantment spells that target one creature, so you are essentially bound by your concentration unless you are casting a Charm Person or Charm Monster OR are using a power word... Two hold person/monsters and two power word stuns is potent, I'll admit, but that is essentially the limit of what you can do and power words are often tricky to pull off; the Sorcerer's twinned spell has many more options and use-cases.
Heightened spell imposing disadvantage also means that a Sorcerer's control spells are more likely to be successful, essentially adding +5 to your save dc on average due to how advantage/disadvantage is calculated.
Sure, the sorcerer spell list is shorter than the wizard list. Big whoop. There are some really nice wizard spells, but there are plenty of good spells on the sorcerer's list, including some utility spells NOT on the wizards. Enhance Ability is a solid early game utility spell that doesn't appear on the wizard list but does show up on the sorcerer's, for instance. You have plenty of utility... invisibilities... illusions.. arcane gate... polymorph... gaseous form... creation... and thats without going off-label. Also.. no, once your 'out of sorcery points' you aren't an npc class.. you are a wizard... You still have your subclass features, just as a wizard would, you still have your spellcasting, just as a wizard would..
Oh, and look at that, you decided to wrap up your post by disparaging the tables I play at, very classy... and for your information, I am very much used to multiple encounters a day, thank you for your condescending consideration...
im not attacking you but pretty much the entire gaming community acknowledges the class needs a rework. Comparing classes at 20th level does not add value to this discussion. Classes should be compared based on what the player will actually experience which WOTC did a survey IIRC most games end around 10th level. I do want to point out that 20 sp does not equal 14 spell levels. 1 spell level = 2 sorcery points for a 1st level spell but depending on the slot recovered scales to 7 sorcery points for a 5th level spell. Its difficult to directly compare the sorcerer font of magic and arcane recovery. It depends on what distribution the wizard is using 10 1st level spells would be 20 sorcery points to 2 5th level slots for 14 sorcery points. It further gets muddled when you factor in the unlimited spell castings a wizard gets at high levels.
Unfortunately sorcerers do not get much other than metamagic as features go especially at the levels most campaigns go to. Sure some of the origins give flight but not until 14th+ level so most of the player base will never get to use it so its essentially doesn't exist.
Metamagic is powerful but a sorcerer experiences the same problem most tables have with consumable magic items hoarding those points afraid to use them in fear they will be needed later. So what happens is they don't get used. A feature that doesn't get used means your essentially not getting a class feature this compounded by the fact that their spell list is the worst full spell casting class spell list in the game and they only get 15 spells over 20 levels. Break it down to 10th level the sorcerer only gets 11 spells compare that with say the ranger who gets 9 (3 add spells known from archetype) its clear the sorcerer needs alot of work.
Also enchantment wizard is limited to twin on enchantment spells only however its done as much as he wants the sorcerer needs to spend points to do that. Heightened spell only effects the 1st saving throw not the entire spell. So the enchantment wizard can pull off those spells with action surge every short rest so they would be able to do it 3 times as often as the sorcerer based on the DMG assumption of 2 short rests per day. So it may stick for a turn but after that its the same as if any other caster had cast the spell.
The spells known limitation is big problem because it makes the class inaccessible to newer players. You pick a spell your stuck with it until you level up at which point you can swap a single spell. The wizard who has no spell known limitation what so ever. That player is now not going to have fun which means the class is poorly designed. The spell list needs some work since there are very few broadly applicable utility spells across the 1st-3rd spell levels (where the majority of play takes place). If a player decides to take one of the few utility spells and it doesn't fit the challenges the party is facing they are now playing down a spell known. I have played the class extensively across multiple editions. The designers took the defining essence of the sorcerer and gave it to prepared classes but then never looked back at the sorcerer thats the primary cause of its issues. So what I mean by that is originally a wizard/cleric/druid/etc had to prep each spell slot at the beginning of the day. When they designed 5e they instead made all casting spontaneous in essence. Now a wizard/cleric/druid/paladin/etc picks the spells they know for the day and can use their slots however they choose. This was the defining essence of the sorcerer class which is fine I understand they did this to make the game more accessible but no counter balance was done to make up for this class imbalance. On top of that the sorcerer knew 43 spells over 20 levels they cut that to 15. The only thing they did was give them exclusive access to metamagic.
The very first line of the post that this quote responds to was you attempting to invalidate my position by saying "your last line shows you have very little experience playing sorcerer" without any knowledge of my experience. That is indeed trying to discredit me instead of dealing with my positions. That is by definition an ad hominem fallacy.
20 sp does indeed equal 14 spell levels, because, as your own post here shows, you can get two 5th level slots for 14sp, which leaves you with 6... the precise number needed to get a 4th level slot. 5+5+4=14... But sure, lets take your argument that most games don't reach 20th level; you use 10th level as a reference point further in your post, so lets use that. A 10th level wizard can use arcane recovery to get 5 spell levels back... a 10th level sorcerer can get 7 spell levels back.. again, without a short rest. They can refuel right when they need to cast a critical spell. Turns out the balance is the same. Half the level, half the returns. You still can recover as much as a wizard and have some points for a metamagic spell.
I do not accept your 'hoarding' argument, as that is entirely dependent on an individual player. Such a player could also hoard any other resource, including spell slots, invalidating any amount of the capability of their character. As such, it is not a sorcerer specific problem, but rather one innate to particular players.
You repeat your arguments about spells known and spell list without addressing my positions, so I feel no particular need to rebut them again here... but I would suggest the next time you play a caster you keep track of the number of spells you use regularly. I would suspect that you find that there are many spells you don't end up casting nearly as much as you think you do; it is nice to have them available, for sure, but there is generally a staple few spells that players fall back on. A caster has a couple pet damage options, a couple favorite control spells and a couple favorite defense spells, beyond that things are much more sporadic or situational. Preparation casters can slot in a niche spell for a specific challenge, which is a strength to be certain, but while these niche spells can expedite an adventure they are rarely the only option. There is also benefit to not having a particular tool: it creates more content. You either have to mcguyver a solution or embark on a sidequest to fix the problem, both of which add memorable moments to the game, especially when compared to "Mr wizard waves his fingers". Later in this post I will outline just how utility driven a sorcerer can be.
Your paragraph on enchantment wizard is a little muddled, but I'll address both points. First, while heightened spell does only effect the initial saving throw, it can mean the difference between a wasted spell slot and one round of hold monster or whatever your control spell of choice is. I will take a wasted monster turn over wasting my turn any day of the week. It can also result in total shut downs if you use a spell that shifts from an initial saving throw to an ability check, such as Maximilian's Earthen Grasp -- losing out on save proficiency can mean that it is much more likely that the target remains trapped by the spell. As for your portions regarding Enchantment wizard, the specific level isn't addressed. Let us assume the same, level 10, so that it is within what you consider reachable for most players and still actually having the Split Enchantment feature. What level of spell is being twinned or split? An enchantment wizard could split enchantment a hold monster, but then it would have to use its concentration on that, meaning that its action surge would necessarily have to not use a concentration based spell; as lvl10 requires we have 5th level spells and below, that means you could split enchantment a charm person or a charm monster as these are the only non-concentration enchantment spells that do not target multiple creatures. Not... bad? but not particularly useful, especially since they get advantage on the save if it is an active combat... and RAW charmed just means they can't attack YOU, it doesn't stop them from attacking your allies -- you would at the minimum need to pass a persuasion check, which RAW would need to occur as an action on a subsequent turn. Perhaps with table rulings it would be alright. The sorcerer, on the other hand, could quad-cast several spells depending on the spell level cast. If you want to go for the biggest guns, it would probably be Blight at this level, for a total of 32d8 damage in the round, you could do that two times
(assuming no spell slot conversion and 2 short rests) or 3 timesif you convert a single 5th level slot... but sorcerer doesn't have the same limitations as Enchantment Wizard, so you could go for many more options... like twinned haste, action surge, twinned blight, or twinned hold monster, action surge, twinned chromatic orb at 4th level for some crit fish and avoiding the Constitution save of Blight. Enchantment wizard allows for a pale imitation of twinned spell; slightly better at the task when it comes to enchantment spells, but with none of the range of options that twinned gives you.The thing with spells known on the sorcerer is you have to factor in spell versatility. On a wizard, you can buy spell scrolls to scribe and you get a huge number from level up, so you can pick and choose the ones you want with less rigor. I would personally say that it is not necessarily easier on a new player to play wizard because of information overload. A new player has to learn all the spell effects to make informed decisions for any caster, so having more moving parts to keep track of is actually harder. A sorcerer player can read through what spells do once and make a decision for what they want. A wizard has to keep that information retained because they will be preparing a spell once in a blue moon. A sorcerer needs to pick spells with multiple applications. Spells like Chromatic Orb, which allows you to change the damage type, or spells like Alter Self, which is both a disguise and a utility spell for swimming -- many dms will allow off label uses provided that the effect you are going for isn't extreme, but that is a table to table difference. You mention a lack of 1st to 3rd utility spells, here are some sorcerer problem solving spells in that range: Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Silent Image, Alter Self, Detect Thoughts, Enhance Ability, Invisibility, Knock, Misty Step, Suggestion, Clairvoyance, Fly, Gaseous Form, Major Image, Tongues! There are more, but that is already a full sorcerer's spell selection with 15 entries, all of utility spells in 1st to 3rd's. If you take a look, several of these are multi purpose. Alter Self, Enhance Ability, Misty Step, Suggestion and Gaseous Form cover a wide range of uses, from social interactions, to exploration, to puzzle solving, to combat and defense; this list is also a third of the spells known for a sorc, which is approximately what I'd allocate for utility (maybe a few more depending on how thematic I want my damage/control options). Depending on your campaign some may make more sense than others as well, such as detect thoughts in a political based scenario.
I don't deny that 15 spells known is a limitation, I just don't find it to be as confining as others do... I don't find it that bad. I enjoy creative spell use. I enjoy solving problems with imperfect tools. One of the best parts of D&D is that for the most part you can do anything. Provided that you a clear enough in your explanation of what you want to do, and there is a reasonable level of realism, dm's generally will allow things to happen... though it might require a hard dc skill check or something but you can at least try, and well... a table that sits there and says 'no' until you do exactly what the dm wants you to do is honestly not one I care to sit at.
EDIT: late night math doesn't bode well, struck through section.
(You can't twin fireball)
Wizard would win, most of the time, but it would come down to initiative. Sorcerers could win, because of subtle spell, but it is limited a ton.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
D&D isnt really a pvp game, and in instances of pvp it generally does come down to initiative. If you are going to say a particular class would win (not a particular subclass) then you really need to compare base features. This is because some subclasses from one of the contenders have favorable matchups against some subclasses from the other contender. Chronurgist is op, and wins about anything with its capstone, for instance, but a wildmagic sorcerer would win against a transmuter wizard.
If you are looking at base features, the sorcerer does come out ahead with greater spell slot recovery options and metamagic. Heightened spell is also a key ability that helps the sorcerer in a direct contest -- wizards need to rely on subclasses to effect enemy saves, but the sorc has it built into the core class.
You're right about D&D not being a pvp game.
Chronurgist, Abjurers, and Diviners are the 3 most likely subclasses to win. If you think sorcerers will, select the best options, which I'd probably say are Draconic, Shadow, and Divine Soul sorcerers.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I would replace draconic with wildmagic. Bend luck on top of heightened spell is as near a sure thing as a portent, without the need to have a particular portent in hand. Shadow is alright, between the hound of ill omen and umbral form you can do a bit, and yah, divine soul getting the cleric spell list opens up lots of opportunities in addition to the saving throw boost.
I dont particularly like comparing chronurgist to things, precisely because it has an "i win button", it doesn't abide by the same balance logic of other classes.
Yes, but the fact that it has a big "I win button" means that if they get to go, they will win the combat, most likely.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Not necessarily, they can get extra spell slots, and do a lot of other OP stuff. Hexblade is just a good multiclass option, and sorcerers can multiclass to warlock well.
Sorcerer (Dragon) 18 / Wizard (Divination) 2
I played this build an had a lot of fun. Portent, Find Familiar, and gaining access to using a spell book for ritual casting (not stat dependent) expanded the character's capabilities a lot. Dragging slightly behind for a couple levels didn't bother me and the versatility was very worth it. Also, Portent is brutal to pull out against an opponent. I always squeed a little when I rolled lower than a 5 on them and the GM just groaned, haha.
1st Level Ritual Spells: Alarm, Comprehend languages, Detect magic, Find familiar, Identify, Illusory script, Magic Mouth, Tenser’s floating disk, and Unseen servant.
Portent: When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
One thing that I think is often overlooked for Sorcerers is their utility in social situations with subtle spell. Being able to cast a spell without anyone having a way to know who did it can be very useful. Dominate person on the high ranking official can be very useful.
Also, I recommend sorcerer for new players since it means having a lot less spells to have to learn.
Definitely on my favorite metamagic abilities list. My personal first choices are: Subtle, Quickened, and Twinned. These are the ones that can define and change almost any encounter in the game from combat to social, in my opinion. Subtle casting is a monster ability for how cheap it is, and allows a lot more versatility to be effective without drawing attention.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
One thing that does get overlooked is the sorcerer's proficiency when it comes to CON saves. That's a huge advantage when it comes to whether or not you will lose concentration on a spell or not. Pair that with twin and you can concentrate on two spells at once which is pretty cool. Being able to keep Haste up on two party members even after you get hit can be the difference between success and a TPK.
I am a Dragonborn sorcerer so I think that one is better even though the wizard is a strong spellcaster.
There's no reason to pick Sorcerer over Wizard, unless if you're tired of having access to every spell in the game.
For people with imagination, the Grimoire is the most powerful passive.
PVP wise: barbarians will kick your magical ass, regardless.
Hey all,
I didn't see this mentioned so highlighting this: Quicken Spell means you can do great things with your action economy for survive-ability. For newer players especially remember you can DASH, DODGE & DISENGAGE as an ACTION. Sorry for the caps but again just driving it in for newer players.
Eg1. The big boss has got to within 5ft of you, action = Disengage, run 30ft away and for 1 sorc point quicken that fireball in his face (though Chromatic Orb might be better, especially if its vulnerable to something). I killed a boss this way in game by doing double damage (Level 4).
Eg2 Boss gets within 10ft of you by dashing, so move away 30ft, action = Dash for another 30ft, then quicken that save or die spell in his face, from a safe distance (Kiting dependent on actual move rates obvs).
Eg3. No way out and need to survive until your team can help? Action = Dodge, quicken = Blade Ward, and using no spell slots mobs start with disadvantage and you have 50% resistance to most attacks (But depends on mobs, obvs). Have that shield ready! (You team may also thank you for using up the mobs actions).
Also do not assume quicken a spell+cantrip is the way to go, at lvl 5 you can pump up to 4d10 with cantrips, or 4d10+10 if lvl 6 (Dragon sorc).
Point is you got some plays in your book and some can be clutch. Also, re the quote below: I subtle spell cast fly before you get close, go 60ft straight up, free action say "try kicking my ass now" and then start slinging spells in your face/ maybe go another 60ft up after initiative rolled :)
And finally as a general rule - No weapon is all-powerful on its own, it is the wielder that determines that power. Or, if you prefer, If the shoe don't fit choose another, plenty out there to choose from.
JaceG
Barbarian: "Oh no! call an ambulance, call an ambulance...
*draws infused long bow repeater*
... but not for me!"
Staggered by the barbarian drawing a weird looking longbow, gets distracted, takes a hit, loses concentration but out of desperation cast polymorph - Mammoth and lands rear end on the Barbarian.
Technically that means I died with you kissing my ass not kicking my ass :). After being raised we both agree never to speak of this again, or the Barb gets drunk and tells everyone in the tavern because , you know, Barb.
Wizards really do make sorcerers pointless. If you want to play a fun sorcerer, pick warlock or wizard.
Sorcerer is mechanically ok technically if you pick the right spells, but it's easy to fall into trap options and end up useless. It's also mechanically boring af, as once you've used your tiny amount of metamagic, as was stated above by another user, it's basically an NPC class.
At this point I think the sorcerer lacks so much mechanical identity I don't think it should have been in 5e as a class, and metamagic should have remained a feat for all casters like with earlier editions. Sorcerers special thing was spontaneous casting, which all casters now get.
Thematically sorcerer is my favourite class, but I wouldn't dream of playing one anymore now I've played some other classes to compare and just found them so much more fun.