I have a warlock in the game I run. He has trouble wrapping his mind around choosing an invocation that allows him to cast a spell using a spell slot once per long rest. Compare the utility to the at-will spells, or those that add damage or other effects. I agree these below seem pretty weak by comparison.
Bewitching whispers (Compulsion), Dreadful Word (Confusion), Minions of Chaos (Conjure Elemental), Mire of the Mind (Slow), Sculptor of the flesh (Polymorph), Sign of Ill Omen (Bestow Curse), Thief of Five Fates (Bane).
I’m considering a house rule to make them more attractive choices. Maybe (a) just add the spells to the character’s known spells (removing the long rest limitation), (b) maybe adding a couple thematically related spells to each invocation.
ex. Bewitching Whispers (Compulsion, Mass Suggestion, Command)
So far, I've refused to use them; they're too resource intensive.
In order to cast one spell, just once a day, I need:
An Invocation slot
A Spell Slot
A Long Rest
A crit fail on my INT save for being dumb enough to do all that to cast one freaking spell. No thank you.
Warlocks get just eight invocations in their entire career. And for half their career, they get two spell slots. These Invocations are among the worst designed class options in the entire game. Four Elements Monks and Beast Master Rangers sit around making jokes about them over pints of ale at the tavern. Warlocks who pick them get laughed out of their covens.
Seriously, I'll tell you what would make these Invocations playable: if they could cast the spell once per long rest without burning a spell slot, I'd consider them balanced. They'd basically be similar to Mystic Arcana, but they'd require Invocation slots to learn, and they'd be lower in level. I very much doubt that would break the game, or turn any of them into "must have" choices for the Warlock class. (With the possible exception of Polymorph....)
Yeah, invocations that use a spell slot are a waste of my time. Mine is melee heavy, so I'm trying to aim for BA spells, anyway, and those are limited.
By and large yes, the Invocations which give you 1/day casting of a spell at the cost of a Warlock spell slot are not cost-effective enough for most players. A few of them however are certainly worth considering. Conjure Elemental can give your party some excellent support in a big fight. Polymorph can be an excellent spell for both offense and defense. Turn an ally into something fun AND essentially give them a bunch of temp HP to burn through, or nerf one of your enemies to keep them out of the fight while you deal with the rest of the baddies. And getting off a good Slow spell can WRECK an enemy party's day, especially if you're at a level where enemies are traditionally making multiple attacks per turn. So yes there are probably better options in most circumstances, but don't discount the one-a-day's completely, especially if the spell in question is something you enjoy casting or works well thematically with your Warlock. After all, the first priority should be that you have fun playing the character :)
By and large yes, the Invocations which give you 1/day casting of a spell at the cost of a Warlock spell slot are not cost-effective enough for most players. A few of them however are certainly worth considering. Conjure Elemental can give your party some excellent support in a big fight. Polymorph can be an excellent spell for both offense and defense. Turn an ally into something fun AND essentially give them a bunch of temp HP to burn through, or nerf one of your enemies to keep them out of the fight while you deal with the rest of the baddies. And getting off a good Slow spell can WRECK an enemy party's day, especially if you're at a level where enemies are traditionally making multiple attacks per turn. So yes there are probably better options in most circumstances, but don't discount the one-a-day's completely, especially if the spell in question is something you enjoy casting or works well thematically with your Warlock. After all, the first priority should be that you have fun playing the character :)
VERY good points. Since I'm only a Hex 4, I haven't reached any super-tasty Invocations yet...
I think it depends on how many short rests you are taking. If you are taking 3 or 4 a day yeah they are not that bad, still bad tho. I wish they just added it to your spells known without counting against it.
My warlock is melee focused with eldrich smite, so i need my spell slots for that.
Minions of Choas is worth the investment. It is a much better alternative than Summon Greater Demon. Other than that I would avoid these resource-stealing invocations...unless you can get your DM to remove the spell slot requirement.
I also think they are a waste of time and space and effort. So many other invocations that can make you so much more valuable for the party. Like the Eldritch Sight (Detect Magic at will without spending a spellslot)
they are not great but, they can work situationally and they can have a window of viability. for example thief of five fates (bane) gives a solid level 1 support spell but as it scales: 3 targets + 1/pact magic spell level... when are you gonna need to bane 8 peeps? its hard to use a full slot on a half a spell.
more to the point, you can swap out an invocation every time you gain a warlock level so there is plenty of room to experiment and varry your picks before you settle on whatever the invocations you want to end up with.
I keep a list of Invocations in a txt file for when designing a warlock and the first thing I did was remove all the "costs a spell slot" invocations to whittle down the list. No matter how good, the spell may be, it's too much resource.
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Tried Sculptor of Flesh for a couple of levels, but only used it once.
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I have a warlock in the game I run. He has trouble wrapping his mind around choosing an invocation that allows him to cast a spell using a spell slot once per long rest. Compare the utility to the at-will spells, or those that add damage or other effects. I agree these below seem pretty weak by comparison.
Bewitching whispers (Compulsion), Dreadful Word (Confusion), Minions of Chaos (Conjure Elemental), Mire of the Mind (Slow), Sculptor of the flesh (Polymorph), Sign of Ill Omen (Bestow Curse), Thief of Five Fates (Bane).
I’m considering a house rule to make them more attractive choices. Maybe (a) just add the spells to the character’s known spells (removing the long rest limitation), (b) maybe adding a couple thematically related spells to each invocation.
ex. Bewitching Whispers (Compulsion, Mass Suggestion, Command)
What has been your experience?
So far, I've refused to use them; they're too resource intensive.
In order to cast one spell, just once a day, I need:
Warlocks get just eight invocations in their entire career. And for half their career, they get two spell slots. These Invocations are among the worst designed class options in the entire game. Four Elements Monks and Beast Master Rangers sit around making jokes about them over pints of ale at the tavern. Warlocks who pick them get laughed out of their covens.
Seriously, I'll tell you what would make these Invocations playable: if they could cast the spell once per long rest without burning a spell slot, I'd consider them balanced. They'd basically be similar to Mystic Arcana, but they'd require Invocation slots to learn, and they'd be lower in level. I very much doubt that would break the game, or turn any of them into "must have" choices for the Warlock class. (With the possible exception of Polymorph....)
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
Yeah, invocations that use a spell slot are a waste of my time. Mine is melee heavy, so I'm trying to aim for BA spells, anyway, and those are limited.
I used to agree until I took the invocation that let me cast Conjure Elemental once per long rest. It’s limited, but powerful.
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By and large yes, the Invocations which give you 1/day casting of a spell at the cost of a Warlock spell slot are not cost-effective enough for most players. A few of them however are certainly worth considering. Conjure Elemental can give your party some excellent support in a big fight. Polymorph can be an excellent spell for both offense and defense. Turn an ally into something fun AND essentially give them a bunch of temp HP to burn through, or nerf one of your enemies to keep them out of the fight while you deal with the rest of the baddies. And getting off a good Slow spell can WRECK an enemy party's day, especially if you're at a level where enemies are traditionally making multiple attacks per turn. So yes there are probably better options in most circumstances, but don't discount the one-a-day's completely, especially if the spell in question is something you enjoy casting or works well thematically with your Warlock. After all, the first priority should be that you have fun playing the character :)
VERY good points. Since I'm only a Hex 4, I haven't reached any super-tasty Invocations yet...
I think it depends on how many short rests you are taking. If you are taking 3 or 4 a day yeah they are not that bad, still bad tho. I wish they just added it to your spells known without counting against it.
My warlock is melee focused with eldrich smite, so i need my spell slots for that.
Minions of Choas is worth the investment. It is a much better alternative than Summon Greater Demon. Other than that I would avoid these resource-stealing invocations...unless you can get your DM to remove the spell slot requirement.
I also think they are a waste of time and space and effort. So many other invocations that can make you so much more valuable for the party. Like the Eldritch Sight (Detect Magic at will without spending a spellslot)
they are not great but, they can work situationally and they can have a window of viability. for example thief of five fates (bane) gives a solid level 1 support spell but as it scales: 3 targets + 1/pact magic spell level... when are you gonna need to bane 8 peeps? its hard to use a full slot on a half a spell.
more to the point, you can swap out an invocation every time you gain a warlock level so there is plenty of room to experiment and varry your picks before you settle on whatever the invocations you want to end up with.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Agreed...
I keep a list of Invocations in a txt file for when designing a warlock and the first thing I did was remove all the "costs a spell slot" invocations to whittle down the list. No matter how good, the spell may be, it's too much resource.
Thanks everyone, I’ve removed the spell slot requirement for my game. I’ll return with the results after a few more levels.
Tried Sculptor of Flesh for a couple of levels, but only used it once.