Looking at the Maddening hex invocation from the Revised Class Options UA this things seems to have some serious bullshitery possibilites.
Maddening Hex
Prerequisite: 5th level
As a bonus action, you cause a psychic disturbance around the target cursed by your hex spell or by a warlock feature of yours, such as Hexblade’s Curse and Sign of Ill Omen. When you do so, you deal psychic damage to the target and each creature of your choice within 5 feet of
The psychic damage equals your Charisma modifier (minimum of 0 damage).
Hex automatically hits, and has no save, as well as a range of 90 feet. Now in straight combat this is all well enough and gives you something to use a bonus action for. But as I understand it, it can be used to absolutely kill anyone out of combat. Because a person could for example stand in a alley 90 feet away as a target passes by, and then proceed to deal 3-5 damage every six seconds potentially for 24 hours.
The warlock wouldn't even need to see the target to do this. As it says on p 292-293 the spells effects keeps going even when outside of it's range (so 90 feet). So theoretically, the warlock could go for a stroll glance at a king, go home and sit down for a cup of tea and start killing him without other understanding what is going on.
Now naturally there are numerous RP things related to this. Like if you run a game and do this it should be a challenge of it's own, and many high profile targets should have ways of dealing with it. But from a strictly mechanical viewpoint is there anything that makes this not work? Or can anyone think of other creative things around this?
This does seem like an unanticipated side effect, way overpowered compared to similar features.
A 2nd level warlock can kill anyone, by himself, from across town, and the only way to stop the effect is a dispel magic or remove curse spell (which takes a 5th-level character).
I think it makes sense for DMs to limit this to either line of sight or 90 ft range. That preserves its utility in combat without turning it into "ultra magic assassin".
Thoughts?
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Kerrigan, gold dragonborn pact of the chain fiend warlock (8)/favored soul sorcerer (3): Survived Strahd Roland Crowe, stout halfling pirate (7): off working other angles while the party fights giants Alekhine Dorvanellyn, eladrin bladesinger (7): Fighting giants
This does seem like an unanticipated side effect, way overpowered compared to similar features.
A 2nd level warlock can kill anyone, by himself, from across town, and the only way to stop the effect is a dispel magic or remove curse spell (which takes a 5th-level character).
I think it makes sense for DMs to limit this to either line of sight or 90 ft range. That preserves its utility in combat without turning it into "ultra magic assassin".
Thoughts?
No, a 2nd-level warlock cannot kill anyone, by himself, from across town, because the Invocation has a prerequisite of 5th level.
Kerrigan, gold dragonborn pact of the chain fiend warlock (8)/favored soul sorcerer (3): Survived Strahd Roland Crowe, stout halfling pirate (7): off working other angles while the party fights giants Alekhine Dorvanellyn, eladrin bladesinger (7): Fighting giants
Yeah I do see the problems with it, but those can be handeld in their own way's realted to RP rather than mechanics. If the players start doing stuff like this then word could spread about it for example. So that people start to hire mages who can deal with it. Or that other's starts trying to hunt the players down for it. My point beeing that it can be handeld in diffrent ways.
Personally I am thinking about having a bad guy in a campaign use this against the players. heavily nerfed though. For exmaple that it only deal damage every minute or every 10 minutes
Just for anybody looking at this later the official text when it was added in xanathars was “you must be able to see your target and it must be within 30 feet of you”
It doesn't work like that! "Prerequisite: 5th level, hex spell or a warlock feature that curses" limits when you can take the invocation and "To use this invocation, you must be able to see the cursed target, and it must be within 30 feet of you." makes you stay close to the target.
One with Shadows Prerequisite: 5th level When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you can use your action to become invisible until you move or take an action or a reaction.
So you find an ally 30ft from a guard etc... you lean against a corner, you use a bonus action to cast hex, action one with the shadows, bonus action maddening hex, action one with the shadows....repeat. Its still possible to be an invisible assassin but it takes time. My GM would likely rule I made a big showing when casting hex so they know I did it and that I am invisible but not hidden so the guards would be called run to my corner surround and kill me by holding their actions until I move or become visible. They would come from no where and I would not get a chance to flee. My point is its good and its possible to assassinate with it but it is not broken and easily over come by a GM.
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The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
The part that confuses me is that it affects a ". . . target cursed by your hex spell or by a warlock feature of yours, such as Hexblade’s Curse and Sign of Ill Omen." What constitutes a warlock feature? It's clear that certain eldritch invocations count - presumably only eldritch invocations where there's a target; using Eyes of the Runekeeper to deal psychic damage might be funny but wouldn't make much sense. So would Repelling Blast or Eldritch Spear count? What about spells cast through pact magic - a warlock class feature? If you're a Pact of the Blade warlock, and you hit a target with your pact weapon, does that trigger the invocation?
Its specifically looking for a 'curse'. Sign of Ill Omen lets you use bestow curse once a day for a warlock spell slot and Hexblade Curse is, well, a curse. Its not any feature. I don't think there are any other features asides from the three it mentions anyway.
MADDENING HEX Prerequisite: 5th level, hex spell or a warlock feature that curses As a bonus action, you cause a psychic disturbance around the target cursed by your he); spell or by a warlock feature of yours, such as Hexblade’s Curse or Sign of Ill Omen. When you do so, you deal psychic damage to the cursed target and each creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it. The psychic damage equals your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1 damage). To use this invocation, you must be able to see the cursed target, and it must be within 30 feet of
This is the full text of Maddening Hex in the latest version (IDK if there was an update or not) and it says that you must be within 30 feet to use it and must see the cursed target.
Not in the same turn. Both the hex spell and maddening hex require a bonus action, and you only have one per turn.
Of course, you cast hex on turn 1 and use it for maddening hex on all following turns... you are correct. that is how they work.
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The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
Question: Do you guys think this combo will work? Hex (5th level)+Etherealness spell+Maddening Hex?
While using etherealness you can only affect/be affected by creatures on the ethereal plane, so no. Otherwise you could basically deal out 24000 points of damage just switching the hex between targets for 8 hours.
Maddening hex might not work with etherealness but the less than stellar wording on cloak of invisibility does not remove invisibility on attacking / spells so at this point you could play the ghastly specter slowly driving people mad until dead. (they could still hear you though so stealth proficiency to help move silently or elven slippers might be a good investment.
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Looking at the Maddening hex invocation from the Revised Class Options UA this things seems to have some serious bullshitery possibilites.
Maddening Hex
Prerequisite: 5th level
As a bonus action, you cause a psychic disturbance around the target cursed by your hex spell or by a warlock feature of yours, such as Hexblade’s Curse and Sign of Ill Omen. When you do so, you deal psychic damage to the target and each creature of your choice within 5 feet of
The psychic damage equals your Charisma modifier (minimum of 0 damage).
Hex automatically hits, and has no save, as well as a range of 90 feet. Now in straight combat this is all well enough and gives you something to use a bonus action for. But as I understand it, it can be used to absolutely kill anyone out of combat. Because a person could for example stand in a alley 90 feet away as a target passes by, and then proceed to deal 3-5 damage every six seconds potentially for 24 hours.
The warlock wouldn't even need to see the target to do this. As it says on p 292-293 the spells effects keeps going even when outside of it's range (so 90 feet). So theoretically, the warlock could go for a stroll glance at a king, go home and sit down for a cup of tea and start killing him without other understanding what is going on.
Now naturally there are numerous RP things related to this. Like if you run a game and do this it should be a challenge of it's own, and many high profile targets should have ways of dealing with it. But from a strictly mechanical viewpoint is there anything that makes this not work? Or can anyone think of other creative things around this?
This does seem like an unanticipated side effect, way overpowered compared to similar features.
A 2nd level warlock can kill anyone, by himself, from across town, and the only way to stop the effect is a dispel magic or remove curse spell (which takes a 5th-level character).
I think it makes sense for DMs to limit this to either line of sight or 90 ft range. That preserves its utility in combat without turning it into "ultra magic assassin".
Thoughts?
Kerrigan, gold dragonborn pact of the chain fiend warlock (8)/favored soul sorcerer (3): Survived Strahd
Roland Crowe, stout halfling pirate (7): off working other angles while the party fights giants
Alekhine Dorvanellyn, eladrin bladesinger (7): Fighting giants
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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You are correct, my mistake.
Kerrigan, gold dragonborn pact of the chain fiend warlock (8)/favored soul sorcerer (3): Survived Strahd
Roland Crowe, stout halfling pirate (7): off working other angles while the party fights giants
Alekhine Dorvanellyn, eladrin bladesinger (7): Fighting giants
Yeah I do see the problems with it, but those can be handeld in their own way's realted to RP rather than mechanics. If the players start doing stuff like this then word could spread about it for example. So that people start to hire mages who can deal with it. Or that other's starts trying to hunt the players down for it. My point beeing that it can be handeld in diffrent ways.
Personally I am thinking about having a bad guy in a campaign use this against the players. heavily nerfed though. For exmaple that it only deal damage every minute or every 10 minutes
Just for anybody looking at this later the official text when it was added in xanathars was “you must be able to see your target and it must be within 30 feet of you”
One with Shadows
Prerequisite: 5th level
When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you can use your action to become invisible until you move or take an action or a reaction.
So you find an ally 30ft from a guard etc... you lean against a corner, you use a bonus action to cast hex, action one with the shadows, bonus action maddening hex, action one with the shadows....repeat. Its still possible to be an invisible assassin but it takes time. My GM would likely rule I made a big showing when casting hex so they know I did it and that I am invisible but not hidden so the guards would be called run to my corner surround and kill me by holding their actions until I move or become visible. They would come from no where and I would not get a chance to flee. My point is its good and its possible to assassinate with it but it is not broken and easily over come by a GM.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
The part that confuses me is that it affects a ". . . target cursed by your hex spell or by a warlock feature of yours, such as Hexblade’s Curse and Sign of Ill Omen." What constitutes a warlock feature? It's clear that certain eldritch invocations count - presumably only eldritch invocations where there's a target; using Eyes of the Runekeeper to deal psychic damage might be funny but wouldn't make much sense. So would Repelling Blast or Eldritch Spear count? What about spells cast through pact magic - a warlock class feature? If you're a Pact of the Blade warlock, and you hit a target with your pact weapon, does that trigger the invocation?
Its specifically looking for a 'curse'. Sign of Ill Omen lets you use bestow curse once a day for a warlock spell slot and Hexblade Curse is, well, a curse. Its not any feature. I don't think there are any other features asides from the three it mentions anyway.
Question: Do you guys think this combo will work? Hex (5th level)+Etherealness spell+Maddening Hex?
MADDENING HEX Prerequisite: 5th level, hex spell or a warlock feature that curses As a bonus action, you cause a psychic disturbance around the target cursed by your he); spell or by a warlock feature of yours, such as Hexblade’s Curse or Sign of Ill Omen. When you do so, you deal psychic damage to the cursed target and each creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it. The psychic damage equals your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1 damage). To use this invocation, you must be able to see the cursed target, and it must be within 30 feet of
This is the full text of Maddening Hex in the latest version (IDK if there was an update or not) and it says that you must be within 30 feet to use it and must see the cursed target.
Not in the same turn. Both the hex spell and maddening hex require a bonus action, and you only have one per turn.
Of course, you cast hex on turn 1 and use it for maddening hex on all following turns... you are correct. that is how they work.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
While using etherealness you can only affect/be affected by creatures on the ethereal plane, so no. Otherwise you could basically deal out 24000 points of damage just switching the hex between targets for 8 hours.
Is Maddening Hex included in Xanathar's Guide to Everything in the Marketplace? I do not see it under Spells to purchase...
It is in Unearthed Arcana, and classes revised under UA material -- I'm pretty sure -- never come to D&D Beyond.
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Guys, pls."
Well that's depressing...
Right?
"The Epic Level Handbook wasn't that bad, guys.
Guys, pls."
Maddening hex might not work with etherealness but the less than stellar wording on cloak of invisibility does not remove invisibility on attacking / spells so at this point you could play the ghastly specter slowly driving people mad until dead. (they could still hear you though so stealth proficiency to help move silently or elven slippers might be a good investment.