We are starting Curse of Strahd in a month and I am going to play an elven bladesinger. However I am going to have her start as a level 1 Fighter before I continue on the wizard's path. I kind of like the idea of a true fighter/mage but don't want to spend any more levels not gaining spells than I can afford. This means that I can not gain the warcaster feat until fifth level, but the trade-off seems worth it to me. d10 hit dice, constitution saving throw, and fighting style. I am mostly confident in play style and spell selection when the time comes but I was curious on my fighting style. I originally wanted her to dual-wield scimitars as her primary melee style as opposed to using a rapier. Is dual wielding worth it as a bladesinger? I am worried that I will too often spend my bonus action to cast spells and do other things that I won't get to use both scimitars in combat very often. Should I take the defense fighting style? I can still dual wield, just not as potently. Any thoughts?
I don't like dual wield that much simply because you can't use booming blade or green flame blade and get the second attack. Later on when the song of victory starts to add his INT to damage on each attack maybe dual wielding is an option, but this is not until 14th level.
If you go with GFB and BB than what are you gaining with the fighter class? +1 armor to delay your other features? After going around a lot I also decided not to ever dual class the bladesinger as I think it's better to get spells faster (as well you won't gain the advantage of using heavy armor from the fighter class). Not only do you delay spells you delay your extra attack option at 6th level.
That's fair enough. I know that some people take the purist approach and some people want to pad the fighting abilities. I'm normally a purist and never ever multiclass. It may turn out after playing for some levels that I'll wish I had just focused on the wizard levels. But we'll see. I still like the light armor proficiency, the Con save is not shabby, and considering my DM made it clear he will not hold back the punches for CoS I am also going to be lucky just to get to second level spells. So I still want to try 1 level of fighter. It just makes sense for her backstory.
What you said about using Green and Boom is exactly what I was thinking about. +1 to AC would probably be better for me than adding my dex modifier to the second attack I occasionally make. I still want to dual wield scimitars for role playing purposes, but I won't waste my fighting style on it.t
Now I am torn again, and can't decide between 1st level of fighter or all wizard. It is CoS so in theory it means we will only get to 10th level. Which means all wizard would not waste the Bladesinger's 10th level ability.
Beg, borrow, buy, steal or drop hints to your DM that you want a scimitar or rapier of speed. That is hands down the best weapon for a Bladesinger IMO. It will let you cast any spell then attack as a bonus action. It is a nice aesthetic for the class with the traditional feel of the Bladesinger from 2e and makes dual wield obsolete for the spec.
Just so we're clear you're taking bladesinger and ignoring the bladesong feature entirely? Doesn't that seem a tad, I dunno, stupid? You cannot dual wield as a bladesinger. The instant you try an attack with the second weapon you immediately lose your bladesong, the core feature.
To use bladesong - the only reason to ever take bladesinger tradition - you cannot use medium armour, heavy armour or a shield and if you make an attack either as one attack with a two-handed weapon (or a one-handed versatile weapon wielded with both hands) your bladesong goes bye bye.
Taking 1 level of fighter will: net you medium and heavy armour proficiencies you cannot use, shield proficiency you cannot use, all simple and martial weapons most of which will be useless for the build, a fighting style but you are limited to +1 defense that is so not worth it or +2 attack that is nifty but you can use spells to make up and don't need, Con saving throw proficiency that you can get later anyway with a feat, and increased hit die that is handy, certainly, but not enough of a draw. You will also: delay your wizard abilities including bladesinging, lose 4 free spells, lose 1 7th level spell slot.
Bladesinging nets you: light armour proficiency and since you cannot use anything more its all you need but is best to ignore, proficiency with a one-handed weapon of choice: the two most damaging one-handed weapons are longsword and rapier which are both 1d8. Longsword requires strength but for bladesinging you should focus on Dexterity but the rapier is finesse and you can use dexterity for that so, proficiency with rapier is the only weapon proficiency you will need.
Bladesong features let you add your intelligence mod to your AC, increases speed 10 ft, lets you add your Intelligence modifier to Concentration checks, and advantage on acrobatics for escaping grapple attempts. You can essentially forgo warcaster if you wanted.
You can then focus on spells that offer defense or increase attacks. Mage Armor is a must - it's far superior to light armour. Shadow Blade is an amazing spell for this build - base 3d6 as a finesse weapon attack and can even give you auto-advantage in dim light or darkness and at 6th level you get to attack twice. Fairly certain this will make up for not dual-wielding. There are also spells that let you add to-hit and damage bonuses, do additional damage, and what not. With shadow blade, spells and bonuses there is little point to dual wielding so you're much better off keeping your bladesong up and whacking away with shadow blade or your rapier with spells.
If you absolutely must multiclass and not concerned about losing higher level spells then consider 4 levels of Rogue (Assassin) taking Expertise in Stealth. With Bladesinger Extra Attack, Shadow Blade spell and expert sneakery you'll be doing 7d6 damage minimum if you hit with both. Consider one of your feats to be Elven Accuracy; it's +1 to either Int, Dex, Cha or Wis and if you get advantage on attacks that use these, like your shadow blade sneaky attacks, then you get to reroll a d20 when you have advantage: basically, you get to roll 3d20 and pick the highest. That increased opportunity to hit and crit and with assassinate against a surprised enemy that's auto-crit on both attacks. That's 14d6 in one turn. And that's just if you keep your shadow blade at base: you can upcast it for even more damage.
That level of fighter is not going to be worth what you lose, since everything you aim to get from it you will already get and you lose some pretty hefty things for it and dual wielding is incredibly silly for a bladesinger.
I appreciate the advice and definitely worth considering. Especially this:
"You can then focus on spells that offer defense or increase attacks. Mage Armor is a must - it's far superior to light armour. Shadow Blade is an amazing spell for this build - base 3d6 as a finesse weapon attack and can even give you auto-advantage in dim light or darkness and at 6th level you get to attack twice. Fairly certain this will make up for not dual-wielding. There are also spells that let you add to-hit and damage bonuses, do additional damage, and what not. With shadow blade, spells and bonuses there is little point to dual wielding so you're much better off keeping your bladesong up and whacking away with shadow blade or your rapier with spells."
But just a little clarification. I'm not ignoring the bladesong feature while dual-wielding. You can dual wield and bladesong as a bladesinger. You just cannot use two-handed weapons or a shield.
"Starting at 2nd level, you can invoke a secret elven magic called the Bladesong, provided that you aren’t wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield. It graces you with supernatural speed, agility, and focus"...
"You can use a bonus action to start the Bladesong, which lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you don medium or heavy armor or a shield, or if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon."
Like most people. I interpret that as you can dual wield AND successfully stay in bladesong. You just cannot use two-handed weapons or a shield, or wear any armor other than light. Which, because of the Somatic element of spells, wouldn't really be doable until you gained the Warcaster feat.
That being said, after giving it some though I think I'm going to not dip into Fighter but just advance as a wizard for the ten levels of the campaign.
I generally prefer to keep spell slots and skip mage armor. And once Haste becomes available...well that's the other go to instead of shadow blade----+2 AC and extra attack....cast a spell and still hit with a sword.....
Except that in that very link, Mearls states to go with what Crawford says, which is that dual-wielding is a-ok. This is the link provided by 2nd tweet in the Sage Advice you linked: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/662100313415921664
I wasn't expecting anything such... I was just making clear the ruling to avoid accidental obfuscation by spectators/participants in the thread. I absolutely apologize if I came across in another fashion, or rude in any way.
How will you deal with the Somatic and Material component issues? Warcaster feat takes care of somatic, Booming Blade and Green-flame Blade the material component is your weapon but for some spells you will have to do the drop and pick up weapon technique. I know it’s legal according to the rules but every time I read about that I just start shaking my head. It just sounds silly to me.
I suppose there are ways around it. Many of them would be up to your DM. One suggestion from Treantmonk is that you could have the arcane focus (wand, orb or crystal) be set into the grip or pommel of a weapon. But many of the spells a bladesinger would be more likely to use are either somatic (warcaster) or verbal.
I generally prefer to keep spell slots and skip mage armor. And once Haste becomes available...well that's the other go to instead of shadow blade----+2 AC and extra attack....cast a spell and still hit with a sword.....
I would also agree with this sentiment. I think I will play my bladesinger with studded leather and leave the spell slot open instead of using mage armor.
I am currently looking at the Bladesinger, because I've been always in love with a fencer/mage type of a character in most RPG settings. And something caught my attention.
If you make a Bladesinger that focuses heavily on Illusion, you are creating a melee battle controller that can easily get in and out of combat. Consider... this.
You cast Mirror Image and Shadow Blade as you close up with your front line. Then you attack using your Dex to deal 2d8+Dex psychic dmg with the ability to Extra Attack while easily having 19AC on lvl 6. Bladesong adds +3 to Con saves to maintain Concentration and you can drop utility spells in the middle of a fight like Color Spray or Major Illusion.
If you make a Bladesinger that focuses heavily on Illusion, you are creating a melee battle controller that can easily get in and out of combat. Consider... this.
I think the link is broken.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello all,
We are starting Curse of Strahd in a month and I am going to play an elven bladesinger. However I am going to have her start as a level 1 Fighter before I continue on the wizard's path. I kind of like the idea of a true fighter/mage but don't want to spend any more levels not gaining spells than I can afford. This means that I can not gain the warcaster feat until fifth level, but the trade-off seems worth it to me. d10 hit dice, constitution saving throw, and fighting style. I am mostly confident in play style and spell selection when the time comes but I was curious on my fighting style. I originally wanted her to dual-wield scimitars as her primary melee style as opposed to using a rapier. Is dual wielding worth it as a bladesinger? I am worried that I will too often spend my bonus action to cast spells and do other things that I won't get to use both scimitars in combat very often. Should I take the defense fighting style? I can still dual wield, just not as potently. Any thoughts?
I don't like dual wield that much simply because you can't use booming blade or green flame blade and get the second attack. Later on when the song of victory starts to add his INT to damage on each attack maybe dual wielding is an option, but this is not until 14th level.
If you go with GFB and BB than what are you gaining with the fighter class? +1 armor to delay your other features? After going around a lot I also decided not to ever dual class the bladesinger as I think it's better to get spells faster (as well you won't gain the advantage of using heavy armor from the fighter class). Not only do you delay spells you delay your extra attack option at 6th level.
That's fair enough. I know that some people take the purist approach and some people want to pad the fighting abilities. I'm normally a purist and never ever multiclass. It may turn out after playing for some levels that I'll wish I had just focused on the wizard levels. But we'll see. I still like the light armor proficiency, the Con save is not shabby, and considering my DM made it clear he will not hold back the punches for CoS I am also going to be lucky just to get to second level spells. So I still want to try 1 level of fighter. It just makes sense for her backstory.
What you said about using Green and Boom is exactly what I was thinking about. +1 to AC would probably be better for me than adding my dex modifier to the second attack I occasionally make. I still want to dual wield scimitars for role playing purposes, but I won't waste my fighting style on it.t
Now I am torn again, and can't decide between 1st level of fighter or all wizard. It is CoS so in theory it means we will only get to 10th level. Which means all wizard would not waste the Bladesinger's 10th level ability.
Beg, borrow, buy, steal or drop hints to your DM that you want a scimitar or rapier of speed. That is hands down the best weapon for a Bladesinger IMO. It will let you cast any spell then attack as a bonus action. It is a nice aesthetic for the class with the traditional feel of the Bladesinger from 2e and makes dual wield obsolete for the spec.
Just so we're clear you're taking bladesinger and ignoring the bladesong feature entirely? Doesn't that seem a tad, I dunno, stupid? You cannot dual wield as a bladesinger. The instant you try an attack with the second weapon you immediately lose your bladesong, the core feature.
To use bladesong - the only reason to ever take bladesinger tradition - you cannot use medium armour, heavy armour or a shield and if you make an attack either as one attack with a two-handed weapon (or a one-handed versatile weapon wielded with both hands) your bladesong goes bye bye.
Taking 1 level of fighter will: net you medium and heavy armour proficiencies you cannot use, shield proficiency you cannot use, all simple and martial weapons most of which will be useless for the build, a fighting style but you are limited to +1 defense that is so not worth it or +2 attack that is nifty but you can use spells to make up and don't need, Con saving throw proficiency that you can get later anyway with a feat, and increased hit die that is handy, certainly, but not enough of a draw. You will also: delay your wizard abilities including bladesinging, lose 4 free spells, lose 1 7th level spell slot.
Bladesinging nets you: light armour proficiency and since you cannot use anything more its all you need but is best to ignore, proficiency with a one-handed weapon of choice: the two most damaging one-handed weapons are longsword and rapier which are both 1d8. Longsword requires strength but for bladesinging you should focus on Dexterity but the rapier is finesse and you can use dexterity for that so, proficiency with rapier is the only weapon proficiency you will need.
Bladesong features let you add your intelligence mod to your AC, increases speed 10 ft, lets you add your Intelligence modifier to Concentration checks, and advantage on acrobatics for escaping grapple attempts. You can essentially forgo warcaster if you wanted.
You can then focus on spells that offer defense or increase attacks. Mage Armor is a must - it's far superior to light armour. Shadow Blade is an amazing spell for this build - base 3d6 as a finesse weapon attack and can even give you auto-advantage in dim light or darkness and at 6th level you get to attack twice. Fairly certain this will make up for not dual-wielding. There are also spells that let you add to-hit and damage bonuses, do additional damage, and what not. With shadow blade, spells and bonuses there is little point to dual wielding so you're much better off keeping your bladesong up and whacking away with shadow blade or your rapier with spells.
If you absolutely must multiclass and not concerned about losing higher level spells then consider 4 levels of Rogue (Assassin) taking Expertise in Stealth. With Bladesinger Extra Attack, Shadow Blade spell and expert sneakery you'll be doing 7d6 damage minimum if you hit with both. Consider one of your feats to be Elven Accuracy; it's +1 to either Int, Dex, Cha or Wis and if you get advantage on attacks that use these, like your shadow blade sneaky attacks, then you get to reroll a d20 when you have advantage: basically, you get to roll 3d20 and pick the highest. That increased opportunity to hit and crit and with assassinate against a surprised enemy that's auto-crit on both attacks. That's 14d6 in one turn. And that's just if you keep your shadow blade at base: you can upcast it for even more damage.
That level of fighter is not going to be worth what you lose, since everything you aim to get from it you will already get and you lose some pretty hefty things for it and dual wielding is incredibly silly for a bladesinger.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
I appreciate the advice and definitely worth considering. Especially this:
But just a little clarification. I'm not ignoring the bladesong feature while dual-wielding. You can dual wield and bladesong as a bladesinger. You just cannot use two-handed weapons or a shield.
Like most people. I interpret that as you can dual wield AND successfully stay in bladesong. You just cannot use two-handed weapons or a shield, or wear any armor other than light. Which, because of the Somatic element of spells, wouldn't really be doable until you gained the Warcaster feat.
That being said, after giving it some though I think I'm going to not dip into Fighter but just advance as a wizard for the ten levels of the campaign.
Thanks again for the thoughts and advice.
My apologies, I went with Rules As Intended by the designers who created it instead of the Rules As Written.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
I generally prefer to keep spell slots and skip mage armor. And once Haste becomes available...well that's the other go to instead of shadow blade----+2 AC and extra attack....cast a spell and still hit with a sword.....
Source?
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/06/dual-wielding-bladesinger/
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
Except that in that very link, Mearls states to go with what Crawford says, which is that dual-wielding is a-ok. This is the link provided by 2nd tweet in the Sage Advice you linked: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/662100313415921664
Yes. I do realise that now. I misremembered something I first saw months ago.
I apologised, already, I'm not doing so again. It's completely irrelevant. Let's move on, please.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
I wasn't expecting anything such... I was just making clear the ruling to avoid accidental obfuscation by spectators/participants in the thread. I absolutely apologize if I came across in another fashion, or rude in any way.
How will you deal with the Somatic and Material component issues? Warcaster feat takes care of somatic, Booming Blade and Green-flame Blade the material component is your weapon but for some spells you will have to do the drop and pick up weapon technique. I know it’s legal according to the rules but every time I read about that I just start shaking my head. It just sounds silly to me.
I suppose there are ways around it. Many of them would be up to your DM. One suggestion from Treantmonk is that you could have the arcane focus (wand, orb or crystal) be set into the grip or pommel of a weapon. But many of the spells a bladesinger would be more likely to use are either somatic (warcaster) or verbal.
I would also agree with this sentiment. I think I will play my bladesinger with studded leather and leave the spell slot open instead of using mage armor.
After much consideration, I have decided to change my mind. I am going to play my bladesinger with no fighter levels and no dual-wielding.
I am currently looking at the Bladesinger, because I've been always in love with a fencer/mage type of a character in most RPG settings. And something caught my attention.
If you make a Bladesinger that focuses heavily on Illusion, you are creating a melee battle controller that can easily get in and out of combat. Consider... this.
You cast Mirror Image and Shadow Blade as you close up with your front line. Then you attack using your Dex to deal 2d8+Dex psychic dmg with the ability to Extra Attack while easily having 19AC on lvl 6. Bladesong adds +3 to Con saves to maintain Concentration and you can drop utility spells in the middle of a fight like Color Spray or Major Illusion.
The rest is just my filler of the wizard thief.
I think the link is broken.