One of the players in my campaign wants to begin creating unique spells.
I plan to use the "research" method as found in the PHB under Downtime Activities, but how much time should learning a spell take, and how much should it cost?
I know that I can copy the time and cost for making spell scrolls from the DMG, but I think the cost for making a brand new spell should differ somewhat.
I have thought about this as someone who would like to design a new spell.
I would use the crafting rules more than the research rules. As for cost and time I would have it cost 10gp per day of research and have it take a number of days equal to maybe ten times the level of the spell or something similar.
I would say it depends entirely on the spell they're trying to create. A Cantrip like spell would probably be relatively easy to create, and fairly cheap to do so. However something like a 6th level spell would be really difficult to make and costly. I would say using a mix of research and crafting would be a great approach as well, as different phases of the spell creation would be required for perfecting it.
And for obvious reasons, they really shouldn't be able to make spells higher then whatever level spells they're currently able to cast.
If it is an entirely new spell, I'd say level squared times ten days. If it's something similar to existing spells, level times ten days. Similar times for divine spells, just the method of research would be completely different, a lot more meditation. Cantrips would count as level one spells for development, but I would charge a level 1 spell slot to use it (probably allow them to have it always prepped for free) until they get to a level where they can learn a new cantrip. Also, I think I'd let them create spells that are higher level than they can learn/cast, but they wouldn't be able to use the spell or create scrolls of it until they could actually learn it.
I would suggest having whoever is wanting to research a spell need a library of a specific size. I would suggest the cost be 100 GP per book that it would hold. I would also suggest that the DM determine how many books would be needed to successfully research the spell. The price for such a book might be 25-50 GP. Research might take anywhere from 5 days to a month depending on the spell
One of the players in my campaign wants to begin creating unique spells.
I plan to use the "research" method as found in the PHB under Downtime Activities, but how much time should learning a spell take, and how much should it cost?
I know that I can copy the time and cost for making spell scrolls from the DMG, but I think the cost for making a brand new spell should differ somewhat.
Any ideas?
IIRC 2nd edition would have the researcher actually create a scroll of the researched spell, which is then copied into your spellbook. But for divine casters that has access to all allowed spells immediately: perhaps double the time and cost of scrolls to add it to the "divine codex" for known list arcane casters... same as divine: double cost and time, plus must sacrifice a spell to be replaced?
For spell research I think a decent comparison for time and investment may be something similar to how you might craft a magic item, or perhaps gain a proficiency in a skill. I would t use the PHB timeframes though. I’d stick to what Xanathars has.
magic item ingredients table could represent the level of the spell that can be made. Just half the CR number and round upward or downward for balance purposes available to a full caster. The CR could also be a representation of the difficulty in obtaining a certain material component identified as needed to cast the spell, or even begin experimenting with it.
magic item crafting time and cost could represent the time and dedication needed to develop and master the new spell. You could also make use of the complication feature to see if anything good/neutral/bad happens. Maybe even think about a rival caster that might sabotage things, or is competitive in some impactful way.
I’d also look through all kinds of features for spell mechanic comparisons. Feel free to look at everything, but tweak its effects to make it different. Like switching special attacks to saves. Creatures also have nice features to try and steal from.
I'd say let them make it as a scroll first using the xanathars rules but make them always roll arcana even if they could normally cast that slot calling it an unstable spell scroll. It also has some suggestions for some complications they may have. Then you can see it play tested a few times as a scroll before they can learn it. Once you are happy you can just say they practiced enough to memorise it or steal the rules to copy spells from the wizards class. You may also say that the spell needs a special item to cast it with to make a quest.
That method works well but it requires allot of down time as at high levels those scrolls take a while to make.
Frankly, I wouldn't put a time and gold cost on making a new spell. As long as the player is open about communication with the DM (you) then I would be content for them to just get the spell when an appropriate time would come. Of course, if the player wants to have an entirely unique spellbook or goes crazy with the number of spells they want to make then that is a different story, but if they want one or two unique spells that are a go-to for them I have no problem with handwaving all the extra stuff. I feel like doing it any other way blocks the PC from doing other things because they NEED to dedicate time and money to this specific thing.
All of that said, if it is a plot point to make the spell and they need to go on an adventure to do it that is probably the best thing to do to give them a unique spell.
A scroll with a Cantrip is a “Common, Consumable” magic item, just like a scroll with a 1st-level spell. Following Xanathar’s rules,*1 it should take 1 day and 15 gp to scribe a “Scroll of [Cantrip]” if you already know that spell. Creating any other common consumable item should “half a workweek” (3-4 days/3days +1 long rest) and 25 gp according to Xanathar’s.*2 (Personally, I would round down to 3 days for a cantrip and round up to 4 days for a 1st-level spell, but that’s just me.) To invent an entirely brand new spell I would combine the “Crafting” and “Scribing” expenses (time and money), so call it 4 days and 40 gp to invent a brand new Cantrip.
For, say, a 4th-level spell, the scribing*1 costs are 2 weeks and 2,500 gp, and as it would technically qualify as a “Rare Consumable” magic item the crafting*2 costs would be 5 weeks and 1,000 gp. So all in to invent at 7 weeks and 3,500 gp to invent one new. (At that point I would wave the normal costs to copy it into a Spellbook, that extra 8 hours and 400 gp would be like charging a Wiz sales tax. 🙄) For any Bard, Ranger, Sorcerer, or Warlock they would just automatically know that one extra spell in addition to their normal progression. Artificers, Clerics, Druids, and Paladins already have a significant advantage in preparing spells so they wouldn’t get a freebee from me. (IMO, “⅓ Casters,” like the Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight would not be able invent new spells without the assistance of a grown-up. 😜)
Frankly, I wouldn't put a time and gold cost on making a new spell. As long as the player is open about communication with the DM (you) then I would be content for them to just get the spell when an appropriate time would come. Of course, if the player wants to have an entirely unique spellbook or goes crazy with the number of spells they want to make then that is a different story, but if they want one or two unique spells that are a go-to for them I have no problem with handwaving all the extra stuff. I feel like doing it any other way blocks the PC from doing other things because they NEED to dedicate time and money to this specific thing.
All of that said, if it is a plot point to make the spell and they need to go on an adventure to do it that is probably the best thing to do to give them a unique spell.
I would agree with this for any “half” or “full” casters who have to learn their spells (Bards, Rangers, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards) as long as:
It’s a leveled spell.
That player was willing to wait until their next level-up when they would learn a new spell.
But for a 12th-level character to have to wait that long…. *woofta* The next level-up could be months and months away IRL. I would personally rather spend a little downtime and some gold, that could happen in between one session and the next.
I would not agree for casters who automatically know all of their spells because they could “invent” a new spell overnight. That’s the same reason I would restrict against cantrips if Cantrip Versatility was being used.
I found a great home brew spell for Baba Yagas’s Walking Hut by SkyMeomor. We started the campaign at 3rd level and I spent the next few levels gathering components. We killed a young white dragon and I used Gentle Repose to keep the legs fresh. We “borrowed” an outhouse from behind a inn and using Rope Trick and Tiny Hut I managed to make our group an AT-ST to live in prior to leveling up to Mordie’s Mansion.
After all that in game work the DM let me select the spell at level up rather then needing downtime. The party is also more invested in our transportation since they had a hand in its creation .
Cost is one of those things I don't think anyone can answer. I've played in games where by level 15 the players have 50k disposable, I've played in campaigns where at level 15 they had 1k disposable. How much money is in your campaign would have an effect on this call. It should cost enough to explain why people aren't making new spells daily. I'd suggest more than what a scroll costs to buy in your game. A bought scroll is what a wizard might use to expand their spell book and that is for an existing spell with no research needed. But not so much more it makes it basically an impossible task. Maybe proportionally a lot more for lower level spells but barely more at all for the highest as I seem to recall in official books the last couple levels of spells scale in cost overly fast.
XGE has rules for research. I tell my players they need 1 lore per spell level (minimum 1) after they have gathered enough lore they have to scribe the scroll.
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Greetings fellow gamers,
One of the players in my campaign wants to begin creating unique spells.
I plan to use the "research" method as found in the PHB under Downtime Activities, but how much time should learning a spell take, and how much should it cost?
I know that I can copy the time and cost for making spell scrolls from the DMG, but I think the cost for making a brand new spell should differ somewhat.
Any ideas?
I have thought about this as someone who would like to design a new spell.
I would use the crafting rules more than the research rules. As for cost and time I would have it cost 10gp per day of research and have it take a number of days equal to maybe ten times the level of the spell or something similar.
Maybe less effort if he is using another spell as a base. Like "Acid Ball" instead of Fireball
I would say it depends entirely on the spell they're trying to create. A Cantrip like spell would probably be relatively easy to create, and fairly cheap to do so. However something like a 6th level spell would be really difficult to make and costly. I would say using a mix of research and crafting would be a great approach as well, as different phases of the spell creation would be required for perfecting it.
And for obvious reasons, they really shouldn't be able to make spells higher then whatever level spells they're currently able to cast.
If it is an entirely new spell, I'd say level squared times ten days. If it's something similar to existing spells, level times ten days. Similar times for divine spells, just the method of research would be completely different, a lot more meditation. Cantrips would count as level one spells for development, but I would charge a level 1 spell slot to use it (probably allow them to have it always prepped for free) until they get to a level where they can learn a new cantrip. Also, I think I'd let them create spells that are higher level than they can learn/cast, but they wouldn't be able to use the spell or create scrolls of it until they could actually learn it.
I would suggest having whoever is wanting to research a spell need a library of a specific size. I would suggest the cost be 100 GP per book that it would hold. I would also suggest that the DM determine how many books would be needed to successfully research the spell. The price for such a book might be 25-50 GP. Research might take anywhere from 5 days to a month depending on the spell
IIRC 2nd edition would have the researcher actually create a scroll of the researched spell, which is then copied into your spellbook.
But for divine casters that has access to all allowed spells immediately: perhaps double the time and cost of scrolls to add it to the "divine codex"
for known list arcane casters... same as divine: double cost and time, plus must sacrifice a spell to be replaced?
For spell research I think a decent comparison for time and investment may be something similar to how you might craft a magic item, or perhaps gain a proficiency in a skill. I would t use the PHB timeframes though. I’d stick to what Xanathars has.
magic item ingredients table could represent the level of the spell that can be made. Just half the CR number and round upward or downward for balance purposes available to a full caster. The CR could also be a representation of the difficulty in obtaining a certain material component identified as needed to cast the spell, or even begin experimenting with it.
magic item crafting time and cost could represent the time and dedication needed to develop and master the new spell. You could also make use of the complication feature to see if anything good/neutral/bad happens. Maybe even think about a rival caster that might sabotage things, or is competitive in some impactful way.
I’d also look through all kinds of features for spell mechanic comparisons. Feel free to look at everything, but tweak its effects to make it different. Like switching special attacks to saves. Creatures also have nice features to try and steal from.
What about a new cantrip?
I'd say let them make it as a scroll first using the xanathars rules but make them always roll arcana even if they could normally cast that slot calling it an unstable spell scroll. It also has some suggestions for some complications they may have. Then you can see it play tested a few times as a scroll before they can learn it. Once you are happy you can just say they practiced enough to memorise it or steal the rules to copy spells from the wizards class. You may also say that the spell needs a special item to cast it with to make a quest.
That method works well but it requires allot of down time as at high levels those scrolls take a while to make.
Frankly, I wouldn't put a time and gold cost on making a new spell. As long as the player is open about communication with the DM (you) then I would be content for them to just get the spell when an appropriate time would come. Of course, if the player wants to have an entirely unique spellbook or goes crazy with the number of spells they want to make then that is a different story, but if they want one or two unique spells that are a go-to for them I have no problem with handwaving all the extra stuff. I feel like doing it any other way blocks the PC from doing other things because they NEED to dedicate time and money to this specific thing.
All of that said, if it is a plot point to make the spell and they need to go on an adventure to do it that is probably the best thing to do to give them a unique spell.
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A scroll with a Cantrip is a “Common, Consumable” magic item, just like a scroll with a 1st-level spell. Following Xanathar’s rules,*1 it should take 1 day and 15 gp to scribe a “Scroll of [Cantrip]” if you already know that spell. Creating any other common consumable item should “half a workweek” (3-4 days/3days +1 long rest) and 25 gp according to Xanathar’s.*2 (Personally, I would round down to 3 days for a cantrip and round up to 4 days for a 1st-level spell, but that’s just me.) To invent an entirely brand new spell I would combine the “Crafting” and “Scribing” expenses (time and money), so call it 4 days and 40 gp to invent a brand new Cantrip.
For, say, a 4th-level spell, the scribing*1 costs are 2 weeks and 2,500 gp, and as it would technically qualify as a “Rare Consumable” magic item the crafting*2 costs would be 5 weeks and 1,000 gp. So all in to invent at 7 weeks and 3,500 gp to invent one new. (At that point I would wave the normal costs to copy it into a Spellbook, that extra 8 hours and 400 gp would be like charging a Wiz sales tax. 🙄) For any Bard, Ranger, Sorcerer, or Warlock they would just automatically know that one extra spell in addition to their normal progression. Artificers, Clerics, Druids, and Paladins already have a significant advantage in preparing spells so they wouldn’t get a freebee from me. (IMO, “⅓ Casters,” like the Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight would not be able invent new spells without the assistance of a grown-up. 😜)
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I would agree with this for any “half” or “full” casters who have to learn their spells (Bards, Rangers, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards) as long as:
But for a 12th-level character to have to wait that long…. *woofta* The next level-up could be months and months away IRL. I would personally rather spend a little downtime and some gold, that could happen in between one session and the next.
I would not agree for casters who automatically know all of their spells because they could “invent” a new spell overnight. That’s the same reason I would restrict against cantrips if Cantrip Versatility was being used.
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I found a great home brew spell for Baba Yagas’s Walking Hut by SkyMeomor. We started the campaign at 3rd level and I spent the next few levels gathering components. We killed a young white dragon and I used Gentle Repose to keep the legs fresh. We “borrowed” an outhouse from behind a inn and using Rope Trick and Tiny Hut I managed to make our group an AT-ST to live in prior to leveling up to Mordie’s Mansion.
After all that in game work the DM let me select the spell at level up rather then needing downtime. The party is also more invested in our transportation since they had a hand in its creation .
Cost is one of those things I don't think anyone can answer. I've played in games where by level 15 the players have 50k disposable, I've played in campaigns where at level 15 they had 1k disposable. How much money is in your campaign would have an effect on this call. It should cost enough to explain why people aren't making new spells daily. I'd suggest more than what a scroll costs to buy in your game. A bought scroll is what a wizard might use to expand their spell book and that is for an existing spell with no research needed. But not so much more it makes it basically an impossible task. Maybe proportionally a lot more for lower level spells but barely more at all for the highest as I seem to recall in official books the last couple levels of spells scale in cost overly fast.
5 years later...
XGE has rules for research. I tell my players they need 1 lore per spell level (minimum 1) after they have gathered enough lore they have to scribe the scroll.
I'll try anything once, twice if it hurts.