Sorry about that, I misread your original post. Yes, you add the two together for a +5 bonus.
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Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
necromancer can be realy good in high levels maybe in the start is little weak (in the start you dont fight any body too strong so that don't really matter)but in no time you became a asskicker :) and you can multiclassing to make him even better .
Necromancers get the ability to summon stronger things later on. Animate Undead insures a numbers game will often be in your favor. Remember: When you are having 5 people swing at one guy, the potential round damage is higher. If I recall, someone once ran the numbers and said it's not uncommon (Material components provided) that a necromancer can maintain an army of 200 creatures. Now, that being said, what does the necro spec contribute to the party because any wizard can cast these spells? Undead body guards function as spare HP pool for non AoE attacks. Since a necro can summon more per cast, it's more free hp. There was a spell that reduced my max hp in exchange for some benefit that I exploited the criteria of 'My max hp can't be reduced' but I can't remember what it was. It could have been a magical item. Then the last bit of iron is that we had a cleric bless my skeletons and zombies so they'd hit more often. That was my favorite part.
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You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
Choose a pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid. Humanoids are a type and it can only be medium or small so good idea but impossible RAW
Choose a pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid. Humanoids are a type and it can only be medium or small so good idea but impossible RAW
Not sure if you were responding to my post or someone else's but higher level necro spells have variances that make stronger minions out of those corpses. Create Undead I think it is. But you are right, the ogre zombie wouldnt be an option.
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You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
Choose a pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid. Humanoids are a type and it can only be medium or small so good idea but impossible RAW
Not sure if you were responding to my post or someone else's but higher level necro spells have variances that make stronger minions out of those corpses. Create Undead I think it is. But you are right, the ogre zombie wouldnt be an option.
This is why it's important to work with your DM. Are zombie variants specified per RAW? No. However, how do you suppose those beings come to be? Heck, my DM and I worked out a lvl 1 spell to create Crawling Claws and now I have a swarm of 16 as a lvl 3!
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Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
Choose a pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid. Humanoids are a type and it can only be medium or small so good idea but impossible RAW
Not sure if you were responding to my post or someone else's but higher level necro spells have variances that make stronger minions out of those corpses. Create Undead I think it is. But you are right, the ogre zombie wouldnt be an option.
This is why it's important to work with your DM. Are zombie variants specified per RAW? No. However, how do you suppose those beings come to be? Heck, my DM and I worked out a lvl 1 spell to create Crawling Claws and now I have a swarm of 16 as a lvl 3!
Yes. It makes a Zombie or Skeleton. That's RAW. They get perks based on necromancer features. That's what makes it reasonable to take necromancy over other traditions. Later, those perks continue to pass even to undead variants using create undead, which other wizard can get the spell, just without the perks. That's RAW. It's specified. The additional zombie at level 6 also helps and since it throws an extra set of action economy into the mix, it's rather useful.
I'm not sure if it was in this post or another but several low CR zombies can do a good deal. The example given was during Curse of Straud. Since the undead aren't magical, they would be useless against the werewolves, right? No. He used them to knock them prone, to grapple and gave one dragons breath. It boils down to how creative you can be. A swarm of crawling claws at level 3 is 16x6 damage. He gave you the potential of doing 96 damage at level 3. The odds of all of them hitting aren't great, but they can still do things like help which makes it all the more likely. That, i'd say, is OP as all get out and I wouldn't have allowed it at all.
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You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
That was me with the zombie swarm+plague spreader combo, and thank you :D
In my current campaign with the crawling claw swarm, each inflicts 1d4+1 dmg and I typically deploy them in groups of 4 (since that fills a 5x5 square). So basically, I get 4 chances to hit for 1d4+1, which is a melee version of lvl 2 Magic Missile every turn!
Since we are relatively low level still, enemies aren't typically powerful or have many AoEs. Therefore, I have the claw swarm carried on my person (because they're hands, they can grab onto armor, robes, etc.), get very close, then release them en masse with a Bonus Action. Typically, I can kill 1-3 minor enemies per turn doing this, and the opposition's limited attacks mean that killing a claw each per turn only scratches the surface of the larger swarm.
What makes necromancy so potentially strong is that you can force distance between you and enemies and cause some awful surprises. No one wants to willingly charge through a crowd of undead and incur a mountain of AoOs, so they wade through the mass turn-by-turn. Now that you have them disctracted, you can deploy further minions to skirmish or even just outmaneuver them.
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Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
1. Command undead at level 14: Cause an undead creature to make a charisma saving throw. If it has an intelligence less than 8, it doesn't have advantage and you control it permanently no problem. Nigtwalkers (mordenkainen) are CR 20 undead with a charisma of 8 and an intelligence of 6...
1. Command undead at level 14: Cause an undead creature to make a charisma saving throw. If it has an intelligence less than 8, it doesn't have advantage and you control it permanently no problem. Nigtwalkers (mordenkainen) are CR 20 undead with a charisma of 8 and an intelligence of 6...
2. MAGIC JAR, just magic jar.
Let us also consider feeblemind. Doesn't have an intel of 8 or less? Make it so.
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You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
Its probably that way because they want ppl to be able to play a necromancer and not be evil. Walking around and absorbing plants and others life force and sucking the breath out of lving creatures is just mad evil.
I'm leveling up a Necromancer in Adventure League and at level four I'm going to take the Skilled feat and pick up Tailoring, Leatherworking, Herbalism and Disguise. Then I'm going to buy a lot of redundant pieces of armor with the intent of turning them into fully covering clothing so I can have my undead minions act as porters and servants for the rest of my character's lifetime.
What Necromancers need more than anything right now is a skeleton and zombie TEMPLATE so we can start resurrecting things other than "generic medium humanoid".
Actually, I think that if you cast animate dead on the corpse of a large giant (an ogre, oni, or troll), it assumes the statistics of a Ogre Zombie. And if you animate a dead beholder, it becomes a Beholder Zombie. Animating a skeleton of a horse creates a Warhorse Skeleton and so on.
Is this true? I always figured you just got a crappy zombie no matter what the target corpse used to be.
Ah man my gnome necromancer, Bim is by far my favourite character yet. Her zombies (and she's had a few) are more like her friends. She's a bit socially awkward and thinks everyone she meets is a friend until they prove otherwise. Super trusting this girl is and really just radiates good. It's funny though because I am in a horror campaign with her and all the other players save one seem to think she is definitely evil. Yet, I purposefully created her personality to be almost anti-evil. Only once has she ever used her zombies in combat. ***and it should be said the only reason she did is because one of the other players has a death wish and just really wants a new character and if her zombies didn't start dealing damage they all would have died. Still I like to stick firm to this rule and the whole group chatted with this player in game and told her if she did anything intentionally harmful (like opening a door and casually walking into an undead war) we would leave her to her fate. Her zombies are literally there only to protect her. She is pretty squishy and in most cases she has four zombies, one on each side, one in the front and back. Then I usually cast mirror image so it becomes even harder to be hit.
I think being in a horror campaign it's probably easier. Right now Bim is teaching necromancy in a school and the first two NPC's they met were necromancers. There are no gods in this world either so there isn't that whole "upsetting the dead" issue some seem to have. Necro's seem to be a dime a dozen in this world which makes it easier. Still, it may be hard to do in another campaign that has a more godly influence.
I think it mostly depends on how you play the character as well. Bim is open, friendly and protective of her friends and as long as people don't let that whole "necromancers are evil" mentality force itself into a world where it doesn't fit it works well. It can be hard for people to separate though. My group once had a discussion about Bim while she was in her room adding spells into her book. Most of the players thought she was evil even though their characters really had no proof other than, she has zombies. They ended up coming upstairs to talk to me and found me in my unlocked room laying on the bed cuddled up with one zombie writing in my spellbook while the other brushed my hair. (Badly) Upon entering the one character said to the others, "How could that be evil?"
I like Beholder Zombies for the 14th level ability... just intelligent enough to gain advantage on your saves... but has crappy charisma and with a high enough DC, it will almost definitely fail the save.
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"Halt your wagging and wag your halters, for I am mastercryomancer!"
The thing I see in 5th Edition necromancy is that it is far too narrow in scope. It doesn't account for the wise variety of undead possible in the D&D world, and it lacks damage spells. This is silly to have had happen as there is (even in past editions) a far larger variety of spells. For one, why are you basically herded into being an undead herder when there is far more a necromancer can do with controlling life and death. Siphoning life from one creature to give to another, decaying things alive, curses and so on. Meanwhile, all 5th edition seems to lean on is "Oh, they make zombies and skeletons." How does that translate into becoming a Lich, unleashing magical rotting diseases, Many spells I've seen that should be necromantic also kinda aren't, which is quite the loss. As was previously mentioned, spirit guardians, which should be necromantic, or at least have a necromantic equivalent. Ghosts are spirits after all are they not? Seems to me they are just trying too hard to nerf necromancers. Even just giving us the spell from the Baldur's Gate games of Larloch's Minor Drain would help with the issues present in 5th ed, and since it is mainly set in the Forgotten Realms it would fit in 5th ed's main world. It's not even that potent a spell really, as it does less damage than a magic missile and isn't even a guaranteed hit like missile is. It keeps the balance by trading the ability to heal the caster for missile's extra damage and auto hit. So boom, now necros have an in theme magic missile, sort of. Heck, they could even make the damaging spells all be from Larloch, kinda like the other spells named for the wizard that created them. Create some lore behind them maybe about Larloch himself and why he concentrated on that type of spell over the undead creation. Maybe he felt undead creation wasn't to his morals or what have you.
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Sorry about that, I misread your original post. Yes, you add the two together for a +5 bonus.
Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser
Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale
Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
necromancer can be realy good in high levels maybe in the start is little weak (in the start you dont fight any body too strong so that don't really matter)but in no time you became a asskicker :) and you can multiclassing to make him even better .
FOR HONOR!! FOR VICTORY!! FOR WINNING!!! :)
You've forgotten ray of sickness.
Necromancers get the ability to summon stronger things later on. Animate Undead insures a numbers game will often be in your favor. Remember: When you are having 5 people swing at one guy, the potential round damage is higher. If I recall, someone once ran the numbers and said it's not uncommon (Material components provided) that a necromancer can maintain an army of 200 creatures. Now, that being said, what does the necro spec contribute to the party because any wizard can cast these spells? Undead body guards function as spare HP pool for non AoE attacks. Since a necro can summon more per cast, it's more free hp. There was a spell that reduced my max hp in exchange for some benefit that I exploited the criteria of 'My max hp can't be reduced' but I can't remember what it was. It could have been a magical item. Then the last bit of iron is that we had a cleric bless my skeletons and zombies so they'd hit more often. That was my favorite part.
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
Choose a pile of bones or a corpse of a Medium or Small humanoid. Humanoids are a type and it can only be medium or small so good idea but impossible RAW
Not sure if you were responding to my post or someone else's but higher level necro spells have variances that make stronger minions out of those corpses. Create Undead I think it is. But you are right, the ogre zombie wouldnt be an option.
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
This is why it's important to work with your DM. Are zombie variants specified per RAW? No. However, how do you suppose those beings come to be? Heck, my DM and I worked out a lvl 1 spell to create Crawling Claws and now I have a swarm of 16 as a lvl 3!
Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser
Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale
Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
Yes. It makes a Zombie or Skeleton. That's RAW. They get perks based on necromancer features. That's what makes it reasonable to take necromancy over other traditions. Later, those perks continue to pass even to undead variants using create undead, which other wizard can get the spell, just without the perks. That's RAW. It's specified. The additional zombie at level 6 also helps and since it throws an extra set of action economy into the mix, it's rather useful.
I'm not sure if it was in this post or another but several low CR zombies can do a good deal. The example given was during Curse of Straud. Since the undead aren't magical, they would be useless against the werewolves, right? No. He used them to knock them prone, to grapple and gave one dragons breath. It boils down to how creative you can be. A swarm of crawling claws at level 3 is 16x6 damage. He gave you the potential of doing 96 damage at level 3. The odds of all of them hitting aren't great, but they can still do things like help which makes it all the more likely. That, i'd say, is OP as all get out and I wouldn't have allowed it at all.
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
That was me with the zombie swarm+plague spreader combo, and thank you :D
In my current campaign with the crawling claw swarm, each inflicts 1d4+1 dmg and I typically deploy them in groups of 4 (since that fills a 5x5 square). So basically, I get 4 chances to hit for 1d4+1, which is a melee version of lvl 2 Magic Missile every turn!
Since we are relatively low level still, enemies aren't typically powerful or have many AoEs. Therefore, I have the claw swarm carried on my person (because they're hands, they can grab onto armor, robes, etc.), get very close, then release them en masse with a Bonus Action. Typically, I can kill 1-3 minor enemies per turn doing this, and the opposition's limited attacks mean that killing a claw each per turn only scratches the surface of the larger swarm.
What makes necromancy so potentially strong is that you can force distance between you and enemies and cause some awful surprises. No one wants to willingly charge through a crowd of undead and incur a mountain of AoOs, so they wade through the mass turn-by-turn. Now that you have them disctracted, you can deploy further minions to skirmish or even just outmaneuver them.
Characters:
Grishkar Darkmoor, Necromancer of Nerull the Despiser
Kelvin Rabbitfoot, Diviner, con artist, always hunting for a good sale
Bründir Halfshield, Valor Bard, three-time Sheercleft Drinking Competition Champion, Hometown hero
Here's some things to consider:
1. Command undead at level 14: Cause an undead creature to make a charisma saving throw. If it has an intelligence less than 8, it doesn't have advantage and you control it permanently no problem. Nigtwalkers (mordenkainen) are CR 20 undead with a charisma of 8 and an intelligence of 6...
2. MAGIC JAR, just magic jar.
Let us also consider feeblemind. Doesn't have an intel of 8 or less? Make it so.
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
Plus feeblemind reduses charisma as well so double win
There's this awesome necromancy homebrew I found a while back, I think y'all should check it out: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rJIR5hpVl
I used it for my current character and it's so much fun to play.
hello
Its probably that way because they want ppl to be able to play a necromancer and not be evil. Walking around and absorbing plants and others life force and sucking the breath out of lving creatures is just mad evil.
Is this true? I always figured you just got a crappy zombie no matter what the target corpse used to be.
"The Epic Level Handbook wasn't that bad, guys.
Guys, pls."
by raw it's a bog standard zombie.. unfortunately
By RAW you can animate only Medium or Small humanoids with animate dead, and targeting any other kind of corpse just wouldn't work.
"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
Ah man my gnome necromancer, Bim is by far my favourite character yet. Her zombies (and she's had a few) are more like her friends. She's a bit socially awkward and thinks everyone she meets is a friend until they prove otherwise. Super trusting this girl is and really just radiates good. It's funny though because I am in a horror campaign with her and all the other players save one seem to think she is definitely evil. Yet, I purposefully created her personality to be almost anti-evil. Only once has she ever used her zombies in combat. ***and it should be said the only reason she did is because one of the other players has a death wish and just really wants a new character and if her zombies didn't start dealing damage they all would have died. Still I like to stick firm to this rule and the whole group chatted with this player in game and told her if she did anything intentionally harmful (like opening a door and casually walking into an undead war) we would leave her to her fate. Her zombies are literally there only to protect her. She is pretty squishy and in most cases she has four zombies, one on each side, one in the front and back. Then I usually cast mirror image so it becomes even harder to be hit.
I think being in a horror campaign it's probably easier. Right now Bim is teaching necromancy in a school and the first two NPC's they met were necromancers. There are no gods in this world either so there isn't that whole "upsetting the dead" issue some seem to have. Necro's seem to be a dime a dozen in this world which makes it easier. Still, it may be hard to do in another campaign that has a more godly influence.
I think it mostly depends on how you play the character as well. Bim is open, friendly and protective of her friends and as long as people don't let that whole "necromancers are evil" mentality force itself into a world where it doesn't fit it works well. It can be hard for people to separate though. My group once had a discussion about Bim while she was in her room adding spells into her book. Most of the players thought she was evil even though their characters really had no proof other than, she has zombies. They ended up coming upstairs to talk to me and found me in my unlocked room laying on the bed cuddled up with one zombie writing in my spellbook while the other brushed my hair. (Badly) Upon entering the one character said to the others, "How could that be evil?"
---------------
Mudd n' Dash
I like Beholder Zombies for the 14th level ability... just intelligent enough to gain advantage on your saves... but has crappy charisma and with a high enough DC, it will almost definitely fail the save.
"Halt your wagging and wag your halters, for I am mastercryomancer!"
Check out my Expanded Signature
The thing I see in 5th Edition necromancy is that it is far too narrow in scope. It doesn't account for the wise variety of undead possible in the D&D world, and it lacks damage spells. This is silly to have had happen as there is (even in past editions) a far larger variety of spells. For one, why are you basically herded into being an undead herder when there is far more a necromancer can do with controlling life and death. Siphoning life from one creature to give to another, decaying things alive, curses and so on. Meanwhile, all 5th edition seems to lean on is "Oh, they make zombies and skeletons." How does that translate into becoming a Lich, unleashing magical rotting diseases, Many spells I've seen that should be necromantic also kinda aren't, which is quite the loss. As was previously mentioned, spirit guardians, which should be necromantic, or at least have a necromantic equivalent. Ghosts are spirits after all are they not? Seems to me they are just trying too hard to nerf necromancers. Even just giving us the spell from the Baldur's Gate games of Larloch's Minor Drain would help with the issues present in 5th ed, and since it is mainly set in the Forgotten Realms it would fit in 5th ed's main world. It's not even that potent a spell really, as it does less damage than a magic missile and isn't even a guaranteed hit like missile is. It keeps the balance by trading the ability to heal the caster for missile's extra damage and auto hit. So boom, now necros have an in theme magic missile, sort of. Heck, they could even make the damaging spells all be from Larloch, kinda like the other spells named for the wizard that created them. Create some lore behind them maybe about Larloch himself and why he concentrated on that type of spell over the undead creation. Maybe he felt undead creation wasn't to his morals or what have you.