Any spell whose own description adds them to the Artificer spell list has been added. This includes spells printed in TCOE, SACOC, FTOD, and SAIS.
Air Bubble
Ashardalon's Stride
Booming Blade
Create Spelljamming Helm
Green-Flame
Intellect Fortress
Kinetic Jaunt
Lightning Lure
Summon Construct
Sword Burst
Tasha's Caustic Brew
Vortex Warp
Absorb Elements, Catapult & a few others are still missing. They were part of it before, description or otherwise.
Those should be added, unless they're planned to be remade, which should be disclosed.
Likewise, spells from Heroes of Faerun aren't connected. Is this intentional? Deryan's Handy Homonculi seems way too obvious not to be an Artificer spell.
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Any spell whose own description adds them to the Artificer spell list has been added. This includes spells printed in TCOE, SACOC, FTOD, and SAIS.
Air Bubble
Ashardalon's Stride
Booming Blade
Create Spelljamming Helm
Green-Flame
Intellect Fortress
Kinetic Jaunt
Lightning Lure
Summon Construct
Sword Burst
Tasha's Caustic Brew
Vortex Warp
Absorb Elements, Catapult & a few others are still missing. They were part of it before, description or otherwise.
Those should be added, unless they're planned to be remade, which should be disclosed.
Likewise, spells from Heroes of Faerun aren't connected. Is this intentional? Deryan's Handy Homonculi seems way too obvious not to be an Artificer spell.
-Heroes of Faerun: None of the spells call the Artificer class, so none are eligible until something is printed to tell us otherwise.
-Xanathar's: Unless they make the decision to make those spells part of the 2024 Artificer, they aren't. The spells were printed before the 2014 Artificer and ERftLW was actually what made them part of the base Artificer list. (This is where I was mistaken previously. Tasha's added more spells that were then added to the spell list, this is why they're now eligible.) So until they officially declare those spells as part of the list, they aren't on the base list and Xanathar's doesn't call the Artificer class to add them.
Any spell whose own description adds them to the Artificer spell list has been added. This includes spells printed in TCOE, SACOC, FTOD, and SAIS.
Air Bubble
Ashardalon's Stride
Booming Blade
Create Spelljamming Helm
Green-Flame
Intellect Fortress
Kinetic Jaunt
Lightning Lure
Summon Construct
Sword Burst
Tasha's Caustic Brew
Vortex Warp
Absorb Elements, Catapult & a few others are still missing. They were part of it before, description or otherwise.
Those should be added, unless they're planned to be remade, which should be disclosed.
Likewise, spells from Heroes of Faerun aren't connected. Is this intentional? Deryan's Handy Homonculi seems way too obvious not to be an Artificer spell.
-Heroes of Faerun: None of the spells call the Artificer class, so none are eligible until something is printed to tell us otherwise.
-Xanathar's: Unless they make the decision to make those spells part of the 2024 Artificer, they aren't. The spells were printed before the 2014 Artificer and ERftLW was actually what made them part of the base Artificer list. (This is where I was mistaken previously. Tasha's added more spells that were then added to the spell list, this is why they're now eligible.) So until they officially declare those spells as part of the list, they aren't on the base list and Xanathar's doesn't call the Artificer class to add them.
It's almost like the release order was swapped, causing screwiness.
Had the digital released on schedule regardless of the printing flaws with the physical version, there wouldn't be so many questions & hypotheticals.
I'm convinced Heroes of Faerun spells would be part of Beyond's selection for Artificer if management hadn't panicked on the digital edition.
Also:WWhy the refusal to put the 5e Artificer in Creative Commons? It just causes even more spells to be locked out of Artificer....and the Artificer away from potential Partners.
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Is Absorb Elements ever referred to as an Artificer spell outside of the 2014 Artificer class itself?
Yes! In Tasha's Cauldron of Everything it lists Absorb Elements as a 1st level Artificer spell, but that the spell comes from Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
Also chiming in to say thanks for your hard work in crunching out all of these fixes. So happy to see the Steel Defender has trackable HP again!
Is Absorb Elements ever referred to as an Artificer spell outside of the 2014 Artificer class itself?
Yes! In Tasha's Cauldron of Everything it lists Absorb Elements as a 1st level Artificer spell, but that the spell comes from Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
Also chiming in to say thanks for your hard work in crunching out all of these fixes. So happy to see the Steel Defender has trackable HP again!
That's... Within the 2014 Artificer class itself. Literally.
Not exactly a Forge of the Artificer issue, but it was part of the bundle. The Airships of Eberron dice are missing from my collection despite showing up in my licenses and my entitlements are synced. Customer service has not been helpful at all in resolving the issue because they keep sending the same canned response.
I'm seeing the same, actually. I have the entitlement but not the dice.
Add-on stuff like that doesn't always get early-released with the books.
No, but the blurb about the delay specifies it will release on the 25th of November alongside the early release of the book.
Is Absorb Elements ever referred to as an Artificer spell outside of the 2014 Artificer class itself?
If you check the spell it has the Artificer tag.
That's a D&D Beyond thing, it's tagged so the 2014 Artificer sees it in the builder and it can be filtered in searches. D&D Beyond's programming methods never count as rules-relevant.
Not exactly a Forge of the Artificer issue, but it was part of the bundle. The Airships of Eberron dice are missing from my collection despite showing up in my licenses and my entitlements are synced. Customer service has not been helpful at all in resolving the issue because they keep sending the same canned response.
I'm seeing the same, actually. I have the entitlement but not the dice.
Add-on stuff like that doesn't always get early-released with the books.
No, but the blurb about the delay specifies it will release on the 25th of November alongside the early release of the book.
Is Absorb Elements ever referred to as an Artificer spell outside of the 2014 Artificer class itself?
If you check the spell it has the Artificer tag.
That's a D&D Beyond thing, it's tagged so the 2014 Artificer sees it in the builder and it can be filtered in searches. D&D Beyond's programming methods never count as rules-relevant.
Which is why transparency is needed.
Absorb Elements is a pretty popular spell, & having it cut from the artificer spell list removes a almost quintessential option from a lot of(valid) playstyles. If it was only on the old artificer due to programming weirdness, that needs to be disclosed, & the other Elemental Evil Players Companion refugee spells that aren't obviously in UA need to be removed from the other 2024 classes to be fair to the 2024 Artificer.
Announcing that these spells are getting a redo or just adding them to 2024 Artificer regardless would also be better than the evasive answers we're getting. Absorb Elements needs a nerf anyway.
Transparency is further needed regarding why Heroes of Faerun spells aren't compatible with the 2024 Artificer, too. Unless the Artificer is locked from the Forgotten Realms(Kwalish & Heward being mentioned says otherwise), which would be absurd.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Not exactly a Forge of the Artificer issue, but it was part of the bundle. The Airships of Eberron dice are missing from my collection despite showing up in my licenses and my entitlements are synced. Customer service has not been helpful at all in resolving the issue because they keep sending the same canned response.
I'm seeing the same, actually. I have the entitlement but not the dice.
Add-on stuff like that doesn't always get early-released with the books.
No, but the blurb about the delay specifies it will release on the 25th of November alongside the early release of the book.
Is Absorb Elements ever referred to as an Artificer spell outside of the 2014 Artificer class itself?
If you check the spell it has the Artificer tag.
That's a D&D Beyond thing, it's tagged so the 2014 Artificer sees it in the builder and it can be filtered in searches. D&D Beyond's programming methods never count as rules-relevant.
Which is why transparency is needed.
Absorb Elements is a pretty popular spell, & having it cut from the artificer spell list removes a almost quintessential option from a lot of(valid) playstyles. If it was only on the old artificer due to programming weirdness, that needs to be disclosed, & the other Elemental Evil Players Companion refugee spells that aren't obviously in UA need to be removed from the other 2024 classes to be fair to the 2024 Artificer.
Announcing that these spells are getting a redo or just adding them to 2024 Artificer regardless would also be better than the evasive answers we're getting. Absorb Elements needs a nerf anyway.
Transparency is further needed regarding why Heroes of Faerun spells aren't compatible with the 2024 Artificer, too. Unless the Artificer is locked from the Forgotten Realms(Kwalish & Heward being mentioned says otherwise), which would be absurd.
A: EEPC came out after the other base classes existed, and before Artificer existed. It's a simple matter of release order.
B: They have full creative control to either include or exclude Artificer from other sources.
C: Not a release issue with the book, since it isn't a bug. (The initial thought about Absorb Elements kinda was, except that it's already been answered previously.)
Re: Absorb Elements and other Xanathar's spells. Everything that I've seen and read regarding the 2024 ruleset indicated that these rules are meant to be backwards compatible, and that for anything that wasn't updated, you're freely allowed to continue using older content. And in the Artificer UA, it states "The list includes only spells from the Player’s Handbook and this article. If you have Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything, your Artificer can continue to use the class’s spells in that book."
To me, this would seem to indicate that the spells on the Forge of the Artificer spell list only contains spells that were updated for 2024, and that we should still be allowed to use any older content that was available to the 2014 Artificer, and I believe that would even include the Xanathar spells, even if that book was released prior to the 2014 Artificer. Those spells still showed up on the official 2014 Artificer spell list once the class was released. It seems really strange that they would overrule their previous statement regarding 2024 updates being backwards compatible just because the original source book for that set of spells predates the Artificer spell list.
I'm also personally sad that they didn't consider any of the new Heroes of Faerun spells for the Artificer, but I do understand why they don't show up as options -- nothing in that source book or anywhere the Artificer has ever been released has ever included them (obviously). I wish they would reconsider that point, especially since Deryan’s Helpful Homunculi practically screams 'Artificer'. But I understand why those are left out. I do not understand why Xanathar spells would be left out just because they weren't included in the Forge of the Artificer spell list, which only draws from spells that were created or updated for the 2024 rules. These things are said to be backwards compatible, and those Xanathar spells were always included in the Artificer spell list starting with its introduction. (I know this has been discussed in this thread and 'answered', but I feel like it deserves more discussion and reconsideration.)
Re: Absorb Elements and other Xanathar's spells. Everything that I've seen and read regarding the 2024 ruleset indicated that these rules are meant to be backwards compatible, and that for anything that wasn't updated, you're freely allowed to continue using older content. And in the Artificer UA, it states "The list includes only spells from the Player’s Handbook and this article. If you have Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything, your Artificer can continue to use the class’s spells in that book."
To me, this would seem to indicate that the spells on the Forge of the Artificer spell list only contains spells that were updated for 2024, and that we should still be allowed to use any older content that was available to the 2014 Artificer, and I believe that would even include the Xanathar spells, even if that book was released prior to the 2014 Artificer. Those spells still showed up on the official 2014 Artificer spell list once the class was released. It seems really strange that they would overrule their previous statement regarding 2024 updates being backwards compatible just because the original source book for that set of spells predates the Artificer spell list.
I'm also personally sad that they didn't consider any of the new Heroes of Faerun spells for the Artificer, but I do understand why they don't show up as options -- nothing in that source book or anywhere the Artificer has ever been released has ever included them (obviously). I wish they would reconsider that point, especially since Deryan’s Helpful Homunculi practically screams 'Artificer'. But I understand why those are left out. I do not understand why Xanathar spells would be left out just because they weren't included in the Forge of the Artificer spell list, which only draws from spells that were created or updated for the 2024 rules. These things are said to be backwards compatible, and those Xanathar spells were always included in the Artificer spell list starting with its introduction. (I know this has been discussed in this thread and 'answered', but I feel like it deserves more discussion and reconsideration.)
-The official book release doesn't have the same text about the spell list, so that's not a point that has any impact. That line was for playtesting. -"Backwards compatible" gets thrown around a lot, but people still to this day fail to realize that was talking only about features which haven't been updated and adventure modules. The spell list has been updated, so the old one is irrelevant to 2024 from start to finish. -Tasha's spells were included because it came out after Artificer and added to the list, Xanathar's is the ONLY book not included. The devs have the option to release errata in the future to include those spells. -Opinions on the matter don't override RAW, and the decision to exclude the spells has come down from official sources (as noted by the exclusion being ruled as Working As Intended). However, if your DM allows the spells anyway, you can make a homebrew copy of the spell and include the 2024 Artificer so it can be selected.
Re: Absorb Elements and other Xanathar's spells. Everything that I've seen and read regarding the 2024 ruleset indicated that these rules are meant to be backwards compatible, and that for anything that wasn't updated, you're freely allowed to continue using older content. And in the Artificer UA, it states "The list includes only spells from the Player’s Handbook and this article. If you have Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything, your Artificer can continue to use the class’s spells in that book."
To me, this would seem to indicate that the spells on the Forge of the Artificer spell list only contains spells that were updated for 2024, and that we should still be allowed to use any older content that was available to the 2014 Artificer, and I believe that would even include the Xanathar spells, even if that book was released prior to the 2014 Artificer. Those spells still showed up on the official 2014 Artificer spell list once the class was released. It seems really strange that they would overrule their previous statement regarding 2024 updates being backwards compatible just because the original source book for that set of spells predates the Artificer spell list.
I'm also personally sad that they didn't consider any of the new Heroes of Faerun spells for the Artificer, but I do understand why they don't show up as options -- nothing in that source book or anywhere the Artificer has ever been released has ever included them (obviously). I wish they would reconsider that point, especially since Deryan’s Helpful Homunculi practically screams 'Artificer'. But I understand why those are left out. I do not understand why Xanathar spells would be left out just because they weren't included in the Forge of the Artificer spell list, which only draws from spells that were created or updated for the 2024 rules. These things are said to be backwards compatible, and those Xanathar spells were always included in the Artificer spell list starting with its introduction. (I know this has been discussed in this thread and 'answered', but I feel like it deserves more discussion and reconsideration.)
-The official book release doesn't have the same text about the spell list, so that's not a point that has any impact. That line was for playtesting. -"Backwards compatible" gets thrown around a lot, but people still to this day fail to realize that was talking only about features which haven't been updated and adventure modules. The spell list has been updated, so the old one is irrelevant to 2024 from start to finish. -Tasha's spells were included because it came out after Artificer and added to the list, Xanathar's is the ONLY book not included. The devs have the option to release errata in the future to include those spells. -Opinions on the matter don't override RAW, and the decision to exclude the spells has come down from official sources (as noted by the exclusion being ruled as Working As Intended). However, if your DM allows the spells anyway, you can make a homebrew copy of the spell and include the 2024 Artificer so it can be selected.
I'm perfectly comfortable agreeing to disagree here. In my opinion (and from what I've observed), the new spell list only contains spells that have a 2024 version and any spell that doesn't, but was previously an Artificer spell, should be included.
I understand what you're saying -- this is the nature of the reality since those spells were left off -- but that said, WotC also left out other spells incorrectly, accidentally (and those have been remedied). My argument is their exclusion should not be accepted as being indicative that they shouldn't be considered backwards compatible, only that the spells that were left off don't have a 2024 equivalent, and the only reason they were left off is because the spell list contains exclusively 2024 spells. To me, that's not an indication that we shouldn't be able to use them, based on consistency everywhere else -- ie all the other 2024 classes.
I've already conceded in my original post that I fully understand your position. I'm saying that I disagree with your interpretation and conclusion, and I have provided ample evidence to support my opinion and position in my plea to reconsider removing spells from the Artificer class -- spells that have always existed on the Artificer spell list since its 5th edition inception, and that I believe were not included only because they are spells without a 2024 version.
There is nothing in anything that they've released in the 2024 5th edition rule books that would indicate to me that they've officially changed their minds regarding backwards compatibility, aside from these spells missing from D&D Beyond. And if that is your only argument, I would like to point out that all of the expanded spells were missing initially, including some that were new to 2024 and included on the Forge spell list, like Arcane Vigor, that had to be added post release. Which indicates that they are fallable (understandable, being human) and that they're willing to make corrections.
Please provide me somewhere in print that would indicate that Xanathar spells should not be included, other than "they're missing from D&D Beyond".
I'm perfectly comfortable agreeing to disagree here. In my opinion (and from what I've observed), the new spell list only contains spells that have a 2024 version and any spell that doesn't, but was previously an Artificer spell, should be included.
...
Please provide me somewhere in print that would indicate that Xanathar spells should not be included, other than "they're missing from D&D Beyond".
If you're unwilling to accept the mods literally reporting back that they've been instructed that Xanathar's spells being excluded is intentional, that's on you. Stop taking up space that's meant for bug reports with opinions. All the other spells were fixed and are included, from all four other books that had them.
I'm perfectly comfortable agreeing to disagree here. In my opinion (and from what I've observed), the new spell list only contains spells that have a 2024 version and any spell that doesn't, but was previously an Artificer spell, should be included.
...
Please provide me somewhere in print that would indicate that Xanathar spells should not be included, other than "they're missing from D&D Beyond".
If you're unwilling to accept the mods literally reporting back that they've been instructed that Xanathar's spells being excluded is intentional, that's on you. Stop taking up space that's meant for bug reports with opinions. All the other spells were fixed and are included, from all four other books that had them.
I'm engaging in good faith in a public forum meant for discussion. So, I don't think I will "stop taking up space", because you feel I should stop discussion things that I feel are not working correctly. I am perfectly within my rights to discuss this topic, the same as you or anyone else. I'm sorry you are not capable of responding to my points and instead feel the need to address me personally. I hope you have a terrific Thanksgiving if you observe the festival; or if not, I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
Additionally, your assertion that "All the other spells were fixed" is patently incorrect. Vortex Warp is still missing, even though it was expressly mentioned as being fixed. Perhaps instead of being combative with other people, you should be more self-reflective.
I'm perfectly comfortable agreeing to disagree here. In my opinion (and from what I've observed), the new spell list only contains spells that have a 2024 version and any spell that doesn't, but was previously an Artificer spell, should be included.
...
Please provide me somewhere in print that would indicate that Xanathar spells should not be included, other than "they're missing from D&D Beyond".
If you're unwilling to accept the mods literally reporting back that they've been instructed that Xanathar's spells being excluded is intentional, that's on you. Stop taking up space that's meant for bug reports with opinions. All the other spells were fixed and are included, from all four other books that had them.
I'm engaging in good faith in a public forum meant for discussion. So, I don't think I will "stop taking up space", because you feel I should stop discussion things that I feel are not working correctly. I am perfectly within my rights to discuss this topic, the same as you or anyone else. I'm sorry you are not capable of responding to my points and instead feel the need to address me personally. I hope you have a terrific Thanksgiving if you observe the festival; or if not, I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
Additionally, your assertion that "All the other spells were fixed" is patently incorrect. Vortex Warp is still missing, even though it was expressly mentioned as being fixed. Perhaps instead of being combative with other people, you should be more self-reflective.
Vortex Warp is fixed, what are you talking about?
And my point is that you're in the wrong spot. If you want to discuss how you feel it should be handled, as opposed to how it's officially being handled, make a thread in Feedback or something. That's not what this thread is for. It's not for discussion, it's for bug reports.
I'm perfectly comfortable agreeing to disagree here. In my opinion (and from what I've observed), the new spell list only contains spells that have a 2024 version and any spell that doesn't, but was previously an Artificer spell, should be included.
...
Please provide me somewhere in print that would indicate that Xanathar spells should not be included, other than "they're missing from D&D Beyond".
If you're unwilling to accept the mods literally reporting back that they've been instructed that Xanathar's spells being excluded is intentional, that's on you. Stop taking up space that's meant for bug reports with opinions. All the other spells were fixed and are included, from all four other books that had them.
I'm engaging in good faith in a public forum meant for discussion. So, I don't think I will "stop taking up space", because you feel I should stop discussion things that I feel are not working correctly. I am perfectly within my rights to discuss this topic, the same as you or anyone else. I'm sorry you are not capable of responding to my points and instead feel the need to address me personally. I hope you have a terrific Thanksgiving if you observe the festival; or if not, I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
Additionally, your assertion that "All the other spells were fixed" is patently incorrect. Vortex Warp is still missing, even though it was expressly mentioned as being fixed. Perhaps instead of being combative with other people, you should be more self-reflective.
Vortex Warp is fixed, what are you talking about?
And my point is that you're in the wrong spot. If you want to discuss how you feel it should be handled, as opposed to how it's officially being handled, make a thread in Feedback or something. That's not what this thread is for. It's not for discussion, it's for bug reports.
On my character sheet, I am now able to select Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, Arcane Vigor, and other spells listed that had to be added, but I still do not have the option of selecting Vortex Warp.
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Absorb Elements, Catapult & a few others are still missing. They were part of it before, description or otherwise.
Those should be added, unless they're planned to be remade, which should be disclosed.
Likewise, spells from Heroes of Faerun aren't connected. Is this intentional? Deryan's Handy Homonculi seems way too obvious not to be an Artificer spell.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
-Heroes of Faerun: None of the spells call the Artificer class, so none are eligible until something is printed to tell us otherwise.
-Xanathar's: Unless they make the decision to make those spells part of the 2024 Artificer, they aren't. The spells were printed before the 2014 Artificer and ERftLW was actually what made them part of the base Artificer list. (This is where I was mistaken previously. Tasha's added more spells that were then added to the spell list, this is why they're now eligible.) So until they officially declare those spells as part of the list, they aren't on the base list and Xanathar's doesn't call the Artificer class to add them.
It's almost like the release order was swapped, causing screwiness.
Had the digital released on schedule regardless of the printing flaws with the physical version, there wouldn't be so many questions & hypotheticals.
I'm convinced Heroes of Faerun spells would be part of Beyond's selection for Artificer if management hadn't panicked on the digital edition.
Also:WWhy the refusal to put the 5e Artificer in Creative Commons? It just causes even more spells to be locked out of Artificer....and the Artificer away from potential Partners.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Has absorb elements and magic stone been removed from Artificer?
NO spells from Xanathar's are on the 2024 Artificer spell list. Other books were confirmed to just be bugged (including Tasha's) and are now working.
The full list of spells affected, in "Spell (Level)" format:
Nice, thanks! But Absorb Elements still missing
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Yes! In Tasha's Cauldron of Everything it lists Absorb Elements as a 1st level Artificer spell, but that the spell comes from Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
Also chiming in to say thanks for your hard work in crunching out all of these fixes. So happy to see the Steel Defender has trackable HP again!
That's... Within the 2014 Artificer class itself. Literally.
If you check the spell it has the Artificer tag.
No, but the blurb about the delay specifies it will release on the 25th of November alongside the early release of the book.
That's a D&D Beyond thing, it's tagged so the 2014 Artificer sees it in the builder and it can be filtered in searches. D&D Beyond's programming methods never count as rules-relevant.
Which is why transparency is needed.
Absorb Elements is a pretty popular spell, & having it cut from the artificer spell list removes a almost quintessential option from a lot of(valid) playstyles. If it was only on the old artificer due to programming weirdness, that needs to be disclosed, & the other Elemental Evil Players Companion refugee spells that aren't obviously in UA need to be removed from the other 2024 classes to be fair to the 2024 Artificer.
Announcing that these spells are getting a redo or just adding them to 2024 Artificer regardless would also be better than the evasive answers we're getting. Absorb Elements needs a nerf anyway.
Transparency is further needed regarding why Heroes of Faerun spells aren't compatible with the 2024 Artificer, too. Unless the Artificer is locked from the Forgotten Realms(Kwalish & Heward being mentioned says otherwise), which would be absurd.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
A: EEPC came out after the other base classes existed, and before Artificer existed. It's a simple matter of release order.
B: They have full creative control to either include or exclude Artificer from other sources.
C: Not a release issue with the book, since it isn't a bug. (The initial thought about Absorb Elements kinda was, except that it's already been answered previously.)
Re: Absorb Elements and other Xanathar's spells. Everything that I've seen and read regarding the 2024 ruleset indicated that these rules are meant to be backwards compatible, and that for anything that wasn't updated, you're freely allowed to continue using older content. And in the Artificer UA, it states "The list includes only spells from the Player’s Handbook and this article. If you have Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything, your Artificer can continue to use the class’s spells in that book."
To me, this would seem to indicate that the spells on the Forge of the Artificer spell list only contains spells that were updated for 2024, and that we should still be allowed to use any older content that was available to the 2014 Artificer, and I believe that would even include the Xanathar spells, even if that book was released prior to the 2014 Artificer. Those spells still showed up on the official 2014 Artificer spell list once the class was released. It seems really strange that they would overrule their previous statement regarding 2024 updates being backwards compatible just because the original source book for that set of spells predates the Artificer spell list.
I'm also personally sad that they didn't consider any of the new Heroes of Faerun spells for the Artificer, but I do understand why they don't show up as options -- nothing in that source book or anywhere the Artificer has ever been released has ever included them (obviously). I wish they would reconsider that point, especially since Deryan’s Helpful Homunculi practically screams 'Artificer'. But I understand why those are left out. I do not understand why Xanathar spells would be left out just because they weren't included in the Forge of the Artificer spell list, which only draws from spells that were created or updated for the 2024 rules. These things are said to be backwards compatible, and those Xanathar spells were always included in the Artificer spell list starting with its introduction. (I know this has been discussed in this thread and 'answered', but I feel like it deserves more discussion and reconsideration.)
-The official book release doesn't have the same text about the spell list, so that's not a point that has any impact. That line was for playtesting.
-"Backwards compatible" gets thrown around a lot, but people still to this day fail to realize that was talking only about features which haven't been updated and adventure modules. The spell list has been updated, so the old one is irrelevant to 2024 from start to finish.
-Tasha's spells were included because it came out after Artificer and added to the list, Xanathar's is the ONLY book not included. The devs have the option to release errata in the future to include those spells.
-Opinions on the matter don't override RAW, and the decision to exclude the spells has come down from official sources (as noted by the exclusion being ruled as Working As Intended). However, if your DM allows the spells anyway, you can make a homebrew copy of the spell and include the 2024 Artificer so it can be selected.
I'm perfectly comfortable agreeing to disagree here. In my opinion (and from what I've observed), the new spell list only contains spells that have a 2024 version and any spell that doesn't, but was previously an Artificer spell, should be included.
I understand what you're saying -- this is the nature of the reality since those spells were left off -- but that said, WotC also left out other spells incorrectly, accidentally (and those have been remedied). My argument is their exclusion should not be accepted as being indicative that they shouldn't be considered backwards compatible, only that the spells that were left off don't have a 2024 equivalent, and the only reason they were left off is because the spell list contains exclusively 2024 spells. To me, that's not an indication that we shouldn't be able to use them, based on consistency everywhere else -- ie all the other 2024 classes.
I've already conceded in my original post that I fully understand your position. I'm saying that I disagree with your interpretation and conclusion, and I have provided ample evidence to support my opinion and position in my plea to reconsider removing spells from the Artificer class -- spells that have always existed on the Artificer spell list since its 5th edition inception, and that I believe were not included only because they are spells without a 2024 version.
There is nothing in anything that they've released in the 2024 5th edition rule books that would indicate to me that they've officially changed their minds regarding backwards compatibility, aside from these spells missing from D&D Beyond. And if that is your only argument, I would like to point out that all of the expanded spells were missing initially, including some that were new to 2024 and included on the Forge spell list, like Arcane Vigor, that had to be added post release. Which indicates that they are fallable (understandable, being human) and that they're willing to make corrections.
Please provide me somewhere in print that would indicate that Xanathar spells should not be included, other than "they're missing from D&D Beyond".
If you're unwilling to accept the mods literally reporting back that they've been instructed that Xanathar's spells being excluded is intentional, that's on you. Stop taking up space that's meant for bug reports with opinions. All the other spells were fixed and are included, from all four other books that had them.
I'm engaging in good faith in a public forum meant for discussion. So, I don't think I will "stop taking up space", because you feel I should stop discussion things that I feel are not working correctly. I am perfectly within my rights to discuss this topic, the same as you or anyone else. I'm sorry you are not capable of responding to my points and instead feel the need to address me personally. I hope you have a terrific Thanksgiving if you observe the festival; or if not, I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
Additionally, your assertion that "All the other spells were fixed" is patently incorrect. Vortex Warp is still missing, even though it was expressly mentioned as being fixed. Perhaps instead of being combative with other people, you should be more self-reflective.
Vortex Warp is fixed, what are you talking about?
And my point is that you're in the wrong spot. If you want to discuss how you feel it should be handled, as opposed to how it's officially being handled, make a thread in Feedback or something. That's not what this thread is for. It's not for discussion, it's for bug reports.
On my character sheet, I am now able to select Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, Arcane Vigor, and other spells listed that had to be added, but I still do not have the option of selecting Vortex Warp.