With the release of the new Multiverse book, Tome of Foes and Volo's Guide are now considered obsolete. We should discard them and use the stats in M3... But what happened to the tieflings?
In Tome of Foes, there were a dozen different variations on tieflings; Baalzebul, Dispater, Levistus, and so on. All had different Ability Score adjustments (which is now moot because you can choose your own), but they also all had different spells they would known, and a few different abilities.
But none of this is shown in the new M3 book.. No variants at all. Not even a unified "this is how it is" parent.
And when I try to look them up in D&D Beyond, I keep getting thrown to a "Legacy Content" page. I bought the book, why can't I read it? If the content doesn't exist in the new book, then it's not really legacy. They still show up in the character builder, but I don't want to have to build a character just to read about the options.
So what's going on with tieflings? Do they still exist in all their variations, or have they been snapped out of existence?
You can't play content from Volo or MTOF in Adventurer's league anymore, which is the closest thing to "officially sanctioned D&D" that exists. The tieflings in those books are no longer allowed to be played anymore, so you have to change it to a different tiefling race that does exist in the books that are not discontinued.
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Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
It's possible, though since 5e has already been to, or rather scratched the first level, Hell I think less likely, that Planescape may be on the horizon and Tieflings could return in a future proejct touching on the lower planes.
I don't understand the OP's grievance, if you have the old books you have the broader selection of Tieflings. If you seriously just learned about them and feel "robbed" that's greivance for grieavance's sake. You have access to "legacy" content if you own the prior books. It's like being "grandfathered" in. Having MMM does not grant you access access to the legacy version of books you didn't have, and again if you're just beginning to express outrage over races you never used or didn't care to own, the grievance is disingenuous.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I am under the impression only if the race was printed in Monsters of the Multiverse then you must use the new version so tieflings are still fine in AL.
I am under the impression only if the race was printed in Monsters of the Multiverse then you must use the new version so tieflings are still fine in AL.
Well, as far as Wizards is concerned, the books that the tiefling variants were printed in doesn't exist, so I doubt it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
I am under the impression only if the race was printed in Monsters of the Multiverse then you must use the new version so tieflings are still fine in AL.
Well, as far as Wizards is concerned, the books that the tiefling variants were printed in doesn't exist, so I doubt it.
This is what WOTC says so they are still allowed.
If you possess a character with one of the race options presented in Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse, you must update your character to the new entry as presented in that product. This has always been the policy of D&D rules usable with D&D Adventurers League campaigns.
I am under the impression only if the race was printed in Monsters of the Multiverse then you must use the new version so tieflings are still fine in AL.
Well, as far as Wizards is concerned, the books that the tiefling variants were printed in doesn't exist, so I doubt it.
This is what WOTC says so they are still allowed.
If you possess a character with one of the race options presented in Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse, you must update your character to the new entry as presented in that product. This has always been the policy of D&D rules usable with D&D Adventurers League campaigns.
That doesn't really answer the question, though. It doesn't mention what happens to the races that were not refreshed in MOTM. I tried checking Twitter to see whether Wizards had said anything about this but nothing so far
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
Wizards's ruling only covers races that were printed in MMotM. If your character doesn't use "one of the race options presented in MMotM" the ruling doesn't apply because your character doesn't have a new race entry to update to.
Variant Tieflings don't get an entry in MMotM so they are unaffected.
I admit the legacy content disclaimer here on DDB confuses things a lot, but the ruling doesn't mention Tome of Foes, so it applies to all source books evenly: based on this ruling, if Lightfoot Halflings are still legal then Variant Tieflings must also be legal, since neither race got a MMotM update.
Let's please keep things on topic, which is the location/availability of the tiefling variants, and not a discussion of Adventurer's League rules regarding character creation options.
The tiefling variants found in the discontinued Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes can still be found in the tiefling race page and the character builder if you purchased Tome of Foes prior to it being delisted from the store. The only change is that they now have the legacy tag. More information on that tag can be found here.
I'm just noting this as a personal observation and not any sort of official statement (I don't have any more info on this than anyone else does), but it seems that Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse doesn't include any subraces/variants for races that appear in other books (including the Player's Handbook): tieflings, elves, etc.
My guess is that if/when an updated version of the Player's Handbook is updated in the future, it may include (some of) the subraces/variants of the Player's Handbook races that have been released since the Player's Handbook originally came out.
(EDIT: Correction – the deep gnome, duergar, eladrin, sea elf, and shadar-kai do appear in the book, but are listed as their own race rather than as subraces of the base races in the Player's Handbook.)
I'm just noting this as a personal observation and not any sort of official statement (I don't have any more info on this than anyone else does), but it seems that Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse doesn't include any subraces/variants for races that appear in other books (including the Player's Handbook): tieflings, elves, etc.
My guess is that if/when an updated version of the Player's Handbook is updated in the future, it may include (some of) the subraces/variants of the Player's Handbook races that have been released since the Player's Handbook originally came out.
I mean, maybe; but Deep Gnome, Duergar, Eladrin, Sea Elf, Shadar Kai all get representation in MMM.
Let's please keep things on topic, which is the location/availability of the tiefling variants, and not a discussion of Adventurer's League rules regarding character creation options.
The tiefling variants found in the discontinued Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes can still be found in the tiefling race page and the character builder if you purchased Tome of Foes prior to it being delisted from the store. The only change is that they now have the legacy tag. More information on that tag can be found here.
Is this intervention necessary? I could understand the policing of this thread if this were say Bugs and Support, where true help and direction is solicited. However this is the Feedback Subforum where help so much isn't expressed as opinions rendered. Looking at the OP the question is clear to I imagine most reasonable readers that, yes, while it is literally asked "where are the Tiefling variants", and, yes, there are FAQ that discuss the legacies, the fact remains that the Tiefling variants are 8 subraces that have been "disappeared" from what was touted as a "sneak peak of the future of Dungeons and Dragons" by WotC and the feedback OP is clearly trying to broker the ramifications of this decision. That's game press worthy news. If it's somehow inappropriate outside of an incorrect overly literal interpretation of the OP's use of question marks, that impropriety needs better direction than the effort at an authoritative conversation stopper this invention seems to be posing. Feedback is best received by beginning with some validation of stated wants and needs, not some sort short circuiting the forum into the protocols of a different part of the forum.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Let's please keep things on topic, which is the location/availability of the tiefling variants, and not a discussion of Adventurer's League rules regarding character creation options.
The tiefling variants found in the discontinued Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes can still be found in the tiefling race page and the character builder if you purchased Tome of Foes prior to it being delisted from the store. The only change is that they now have the legacy tag. More information on that tag can be found here.
To loop back to the original discussion, chapter 1 of MToF is in a kind of limbo. A lot of lore got retired with this legacy content thing - which is fine, I guess - but since Tiefling Variants got no love in MMotM they are the only race options that can no longer be purchased. The fact that they are still legal for play in AL just makes the situation more awkward.
I don't mind the legacy tagging system. I think it makes sense. But de-listing the books is bound to lead to some headscratching in the future, particularly wrt Tieflings.
Tieflings exist in the PHB, SCAG, and MToF. There is the "core" in PHB, variants in SCAG, and, I guess you would call them sub-races, in MToF. WotC says, "We're putting out a new book with updated rules for the races so we can retire MToF and VGtM. But tieflings (and a few other races) aren't in the new M3 book. But they are still subject to retirement.
If I hadn't bought the access to these races before, they now no longer exist. I cannot buy the MToF book (digitally on here, at least) so I would not have access that way. And if I tried to homebrew a version, I would be denied because it's too close to an already existing race. But it's a race (or sub-race) that no longer exists as far as WotC is concerned.
It's already kind of insulting that we have to purchase a new book for what really should have just been errata. But this move also nullified certain races.
And you can't just apply the legacy rules to the versions that still exist. Each one had a unique set of natural spells. So while I can fiddle with my +2 and +1 attribute bonus, I cannot take advantage of the diversity of all the different devil spawn.
Whereas before, I could make up a whole party of tieflings, each varied in skills and spell, now, there is just the stock standard PHB version, and the one with wings from SCAG.
If I hadn't bought the access to these races before, they now no longer exist. I cannot buy the MToF book (digitally on here, at least) so I would not have access that way. And if I tried to homebrew a version, I would be denied because it's too close to an already existing race.
This is only the case if you were to publish said homebrew for the public. You can still do it for your own games.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
From the looks of it, though, tielfings weren’t even included in Monster of the Multiverse. There is no version of rhe race listed at all so while all of the other races get to choose which stats to boost, tieflings are still boxed in to CHA and INT. And even if you have the legacy content, you’re still boxed into whatever those races determined were their standard racial stat boosts. There’s no fluidity with tieflings which makes no sense. Like, did they just forget about this race?
From the looks of it, though, tielfings weren’t even included in Monster of the Multiverse. There is no version of rhe race listed at all so while all of the other races get to choose which stats to boost, tieflings are still boxed in to CHA and INT. And even if you have the legacy content, you’re still boxed into whatever those races determined were their standard racial stat boosts. There’s no fluidity with tieflings which makes no sense. Like, did they just forget about this race?
My guess is this is because Tieflings are from the PHB and they anticipate releasing a new PHB next year. None of the PHB (sub) races are found in MPMoM
With the release of the new Multiverse book, Tome of Foes and Volo's Guide are now considered obsolete. We should discard them and use the stats in M3... But what happened to the tieflings?
In Tome of Foes, there were a dozen different variations on tieflings; Baalzebul, Dispater, Levistus, and so on. All had different Ability Score adjustments (which is now moot because you can choose your own), but they also all had different spells they would known, and a few different abilities.
But none of this is shown in the new M3 book.. No variants at all. Not even a unified "this is how it is" parent.
And when I try to look them up in D&D Beyond, I keep getting thrown to a "Legacy Content" page. I bought the book, why can't I read it? If the content doesn't exist in the new book, then it's not really legacy. They still show up in the character builder, but I don't want to have to build a character just to read about the options.
So what's going on with tieflings? Do they still exist in all their variations, or have they been snapped out of existence?
They appear to be in the basic tiefling entry, in terms of where you can read about them.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
They've been snapped out of existence.
You can't play content from Volo or MTOF in Adventurer's league anymore, which is the closest thing to "officially sanctioned D&D" that exists. The tieflings in those books are no longer allowed to be played anymore, so you have to change it to a different tiefling race that does exist in the books that are not discontinued.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
It's possible, though since 5e has already been to, or rather scratched the first level, Hell I think less likely, that Planescape may be on the horizon and Tieflings could return in a future proejct touching on the lower planes.
I don't understand the OP's grievance, if you have the old books you have the broader selection of Tieflings. If you seriously just learned about them and feel "robbed" that's greivance for grieavance's sake. You have access to "legacy" content if you own the prior books. It's like being "grandfathered" in. Having MMM does not grant you access access to the legacy version of books you didn't have, and again if you're just beginning to express outrage over races you never used or didn't care to own, the grievance is disingenuous.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I am under the impression only if the race was printed in Monsters of the Multiverse then you must use the new version so tieflings are still fine in AL.
Well, as far as Wizards is concerned, the books that the tiefling variants were printed in doesn't exist, so I doubt it.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
This is what WOTC says so they are still allowed.
That doesn't really answer the question, though. It doesn't mention what happens to the races that were not refreshed in MOTM. I tried checking Twitter to see whether Wizards had said anything about this but nothing so far
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
Wizards's ruling only covers races that were printed in MMotM. If your character doesn't use "one of the race options presented in MMotM" the ruling doesn't apply because your character doesn't have a new race entry to update to.
Variant Tieflings don't get an entry in MMotM so they are unaffected.
I admit the legacy content disclaimer here on DDB confuses things a lot, but the ruling doesn't mention Tome of Foes, so it applies to all source books evenly: based on this ruling, if Lightfoot Halflings are still legal then Variant Tieflings must also be legal, since neither race got a MMotM update.
Let's please keep things on topic, which is the location/availability of the tiefling variants, and not a discussion of Adventurer's League rules regarding character creation options.
The tiefling variants found in the discontinued Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes can still be found in the tiefling race page and the character builder if you purchased Tome of Foes prior to it being delisted from the store. The only change is that they now have the legacy tag. More information on that tag can be found here.
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ModeratorI'm just noting this as a personal observation and not any sort of official statement (I don't have any more info on this than anyone else does), but it seems that Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse doesn't include any subraces/variants for races that appear in other books (including the Player's Handbook): tieflings, elves, etc.
My guess is that if/when an updated version of the Player's Handbook is updated in the future, it may include (some of) the subraces/variants of the Player's Handbook races that have been released since the Player's Handbook originally came out.
(EDIT: Correction – the deep gnome, duergar, eladrin, sea elf, and shadar-kai do appear in the book, but are listed as their own race rather than as subraces of the base races in the Player's Handbook.)
I mean, maybe; but Deep Gnome, Duergar, Eladrin, Sea Elf, Shadar Kai all get representation in MMM.
Is this intervention necessary? I could understand the policing of this thread if this were say Bugs and Support, where true help and direction is solicited. However this is the Feedback Subforum where help so much isn't expressed as opinions rendered. Looking at the OP the question is clear to I imagine most reasonable readers that, yes, while it is literally asked "where are the Tiefling variants", and, yes, there are FAQ that discuss the legacies, the fact remains that the Tiefling variants are 8 subraces that have been "disappeared" from what was touted as a "sneak peak of the future of Dungeons and Dragons" by WotC and the feedback OP is clearly trying to broker the ramifications of this decision. That's game press worthy news. If it's somehow inappropriate outside of an incorrect overly literal interpretation of the OP's use of question marks, that impropriety needs better direction than the effort at an authoritative conversation stopper this invention seems to be posing. Feedback is best received by beginning with some validation of stated wants and needs, not some sort short circuiting the forum into the protocols of a different part of the forum.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
To loop back to the original discussion, chapter 1 of MToF is in a kind of limbo. A lot of lore got retired with this legacy content thing - which is fine, I guess - but since Tiefling Variants got no love in MMotM they are the only race options that can no longer be purchased. The fact that they are still legal for play in AL just makes the situation more awkward.
I don't mind the legacy tagging system. I think it makes sense. But de-listing the books is bound to lead to some headscratching in the future, particularly wrt Tieflings.
My complaint, to put it another way, is this...
Tieflings exist in the PHB, SCAG, and MToF. There is the "core" in PHB, variants in SCAG, and, I guess you would call them sub-races, in MToF. WotC says, "We're putting out a new book with updated rules for the races so we can retire MToF and VGtM. But tieflings (and a few other races) aren't in the new M3 book. But they are still subject to retirement.
If I hadn't bought the access to these races before, they now no longer exist. I cannot buy the MToF book (digitally on here, at least) so I would not have access that way. And if I tried to homebrew a version, I would be denied because it's too close to an already existing race. But it's a race (or sub-race) that no longer exists as far as WotC is concerned.
It's already kind of insulting that we have to purchase a new book for what really should have just been errata. But this move also nullified certain races.
And you can't just apply the legacy rules to the versions that still exist. Each one had a unique set of natural spells. So while I can fiddle with my +2 and +1 attribute bonus, I cannot take advantage of the diversity of all the different devil spawn.
Whereas before, I could make up a whole party of tieflings, each varied in skills and spell, now, there is just the stock standard PHB version, and the one with wings from SCAG.
WofC lost diversity in their pursuit of it.
This is only the case if you were to publish said homebrew for the public. You can still do it for your own games.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
From the looks of it, though, tielfings weren’t even included in Monster of the Multiverse. There is no version of rhe race listed at all so while all of the other races get to choose which stats to boost, tieflings are still boxed in to CHA and INT. And even if you have the legacy content, you’re still boxed into whatever those races determined were their standard racial stat boosts. There’s no fluidity with tieflings which makes no sense. Like, did they just forget about this race?
My guess is this is because Tieflings are from the PHB and they anticipate releasing a new PHB next year. None of the PHB (sub) races are found in MPMoM
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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