Getting to the heat of the Twitch matter. I, personally, have no particular problems with Twitch, or Amazon, but I know many who do. Not with those accounts, per se, but with account sign-in in general. Many of my players are adverse to signing in to anything beyond their email. I even know at least a half a dozen people, and you do as well if you think about it, who do not even have email . The hardcore old-schoolers. By maintaining only a corporate sponsored login, you are leaving behind many, truly many, of the people who made D&D what it is today. Keep in mind that when D&D first entered the scene, no one, not one person involved with the concept, development, and playing of the game had either a cell-phone or a computer. But now many of my old players are kept from playing the game quite simply because they didn't become as successful in life as others. Let's face it, D&D has become an expensive hobby and under current direction, will soon become an elitist only hobby. Is this truly the future for D&D? Is it really to much to ask for the login to be simply email related?
All fair points. But back to the beginning, since this isn't a requirement to play at a table, even with other users who might use it at a table; this product simply might not be for them...
Just to jump on this point, DnD has really become MORE accessible with the aid of digital tools, not less. Basic DnD can by played with SRD only, and that would not have been as plausible in a pen and paper only era. When you jump into the base product you really only need a couple people around the table with the players guide. From there it goes up up and up. Im pretty happy with the way Wizards has been monetizing DnD. The books have been high quality, and there hasn't been anything people have been "required" to purchase to play. 5e has renewed my faith that the property is in good hands.
I understand the curse/twitch/amazon, i was refering to the platform as in streaming web site and DnD ...
Why not to use it, because there are other options that non tech people are likely to already have.
Amazon sells books. Dungeons and Dragons makes books.
Twitch is a gaming platform. Currently there are loads of games being streamed for D&D.
Google Groups never really took off for D&D, 9/10 D&D gamer's use Discord and Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds and Skype. So I understand this.
Facebook. Could have worked, but doesn't really offer much more than a log-in feature and a supply of customers. If your developing an app and forum, you already own twitch. Doesn't make sense to sign in with facebook which is constantly changing their user agreements. Plus many people have complained in the past about Facebook selling people identities to Advertising. Now your details are safe (enough we assume). It also shows that D&D knows who their customer and fan base is.
Finally, if you had a company with advanced log-in security, why would you use another company to log into your products?
These have been playing aids that have (since the disabling of certain members of the group) become ease of access for some. One of our venues offers very little space, so this offers an alternative to carrying of books and dice and maps and papers, etc... from venue to venue. You are under the impression that I am speaking solely for myself or possibly a group of individuals all under one circumstance. This is a mistake. I am speaking for several groups of players for whom the advent of tabletopping as brought the game back into their lives. The addition of these formats is a blessing to a lot of us, but at the same time, a drain on the pocketbooks of others. It is my belief, and not mine alone, that the demographic is designed of mixed groups, similar to ours where not all parties can afford materials that the GM alone may need, but that they need to be a part of to enjoy the game together. This is divided twice:
First, the players who would otherwise bring nothing to the table but their skills, who now require, for whatever reason, the interconnectivity of the internet to interact with the people and places in ways that are no longer accessible. Second, In order to supply that environment, comes the people, mainly GMs, who want to supply a good game environment for those otherwise cut-off from this lifelong passtime.
For the latter to support the needs of the former, they take on extra expenses when having purchased the materials in print, must now repurchase the materials, or access to them in electronic form. The game is expensive enough as it is.
Let me give you examples of people in such situations: Handicapped or disabled individuals. Individuals who travel extensively in their profession (salespeople to truck drivers, part-time students to politicians, you name it, it's not exactly a nine to five, weekends off world out there anymore). Use your imagination, I'm sure you can add to the list.
The market exists and is desired by a large group of players who have limited access to a Friday night game at Joe's, but who still desire regular contact with other gamers. These folks fit right into the very concept of this project.
As for how it relates to the simple email authentication: that's explained above. Many of these people already have enough on their plate, as it were, to be bothered with yet another login situation. There are countless instances of internet security issues already and every time you have to add another password and login to your repertoire, you increase the chances of exposing yourself, and others to the next round of hackers. This is a real issue for many people and not everyone wants to bandy about that much access information just to enjoy a game with friends. Are you suggesting they be punished for their right to privacy and sense of security? I didn't think so.
If you want this sort of thing to stay around, you have to think of the big picture. You need to consider every player and you need to consider every opinion. We, on the other hand, understand that if you are looking for a higher profit margin for a short run flash in the pan, that we may have to abandon the game. That won't help us, that won't help Curse/Twitch/Amazon. That won't help WotC/Hasbro. No one wins in the long run if you only think in terms of the short run.
Getting to the heat of the Twitch matter. I, personally, have no particular problems with Twitch, or Amazon, but I know many who do. Not with those accounts, per se, but with account sign-in in general. Many of my players are adverse to signing in to anything beyond their email. I even know at least a half a dozen people, and you do as well if you think about it, who do not even have email . The hardcore old-schoolers. By maintaining only a corporate sponsored login, you are leaving behind many, truly many, of the people who made D&D what it is today. Keep in mind that when D&D first entered the scene, no one, not one person involved with the concept, development, and playing of the game had either a cell-phone or a computer. But now many of my old players are kept from playing the game quite simply because they didn't become as successful in life as others. Let's face it, D&D has become an expensive hobby and under current direction, will soon become an elitist only hobby. Is this truly the future for D&D? Is it really to much to ask for the login to be simply email related?
All fair points. But back to the beginning, since this isn't a requirement to play at a table, even with other users who might use it at a table; this product simply might not be for them...
Just to jump on this point, DnD has really become MORE accessible with the aid of digital tools, not less. Basic DnD can by played with SRD only, and that would not have been as plausible in a pen and paper only era. When you jump into the base product you really only need a couple people around the table with the players guide. From there it goes up up and up. Im pretty happy with the way Wizards has been monetizing DnD. The books have been high quality, and there hasn't been anything people have been "required" to purchase to play. 5e has renewed my faith that the property is in good hands.
Wow, you really don't pay attention to things like a Table of Contents or an Index, do you. The books are as hard to navigate as ever, and in some cases worse. Who cares about fancy art that takes up space? The heart of the material is poorly thought out, many parts are missing full descriptions and explanations and the artwork is all proprietary so even the explanatory graphics cannot be included in the SRD. Your paying more money for lower quality information to be encased in barely higher quality materials.
As far as accessible, yes it has gotten more accessible, but that accessibility is at the core of its own problem. The quality and longevity of this oh so glorious accessibility stinks! It's never complete, and it's always been taken down at the start of the next version, sometimes sooner. I am asking for better quality for what we pay for, and that it not be removed from availability just because the providers no longer care about it..
Getting to the heat of the Twitch matter. I, personally, have no particular problems with Twitch, or Amazon, but I know many who do. Not with those accounts, per se, but with account sign-in in general. Many of my players are adverse to signing in to anything beyond their email. I even know at least a half a dozen people, and you do as well if you think about it, who do not even have email . The hardcore old-schoolers. By maintaining only a corporate sponsored login, you are leaving behind many, truly many, of the people who made D&D what it is today. Keep in mind that when D&D first entered the scene, no one, not one person involved with the concept, development, and playing of the game had either a cell-phone or a computer. But now many of my old players are kept from playing the game quite simply because they didn't become as successful in life as others. Let's face it, D&D has become an expensive hobby and under current direction, will soon become an elitist only hobby. Is this truly the future for D&D? Is it really to much to ask for the login to be simply email related?
All fair points. But back to the beginning, since this isn't a requirement to play at a table, even with other users who might use it at a table; this product simply might not be for them...
Just to jump on this point, DnD has really become MORE accessible with the aid of digital tools, not less. Basic DnD can by played with SRD only, and that would not have been as plausible in a pen and paper only era. When you jump into the base product you really only need a couple people around the table with the players guide. From there it goes up up and up. Im pretty happy with the way Wizards has been monetizing DnD. The books have been high quality, and there hasn't been anything people have been "required" to purchase to play. 5e has renewed my faith that the property is in good hands.
Who cares about fancy art that takes up space?
I care about fancy art in all of my D&D books. It helps to paint a picture of the world of D&D that has been created for us. The art in these books are half of what makes reading a physical copy so much fun imo.
For the latter to support the needs of the former, they take on extra expenses when having purchased the materials in print, must now repurchase the materials, or access to them in electronic form. The game is expensive enough as it is.
Thanks for the insight. I understand the difficulties in paying for extra features or content for some. It certainly stops me from getting invested in Magic or 40k. But There is zero 'must' involved here. It's not mandatory content, and if the players already have books, then they already have all the capabilities to play the game. I have no doubt a digital service would be more convenient for some, and I certainly hope that Beyond offers some sort of free access to features and/or content, but I don't think it's fair to demand additional products and services for free in hindsight. I hope whatever payment model is offered, the feature set and content access will be more than reasonable.
As for how it relates to the simple email authentication: that's explained above. Many of these people already have enough on their plate, as it were, to be bothered with yet another login situation. There are countless instances of internet security issues already and every time you have to add another password and login to your repertoire, you increase the chances of exposing yourself, and others to the next round of hackers. This is a real issue for many people and not everyone wants to bandy about that much access information just to enjoy a game with friends. Are you suggesting they be punished for their right to privacy and sense of security? I didn't think so.
If it was simple standalone e-mail authentication, the complaint would remain. One shouldn't be re-using credentials for services, so without Twitch, the cumbersome nature of logging into an online service results in the same user experience. If security is the concern, then two-factor authentication would be an extra burden on those same demographics. And I'm not suggesting anyone be punished for their right to privacy, don't strawman my point. A service such as this necessitates account login authentication. The Twitch service is just as secure as one can reasonably expect. The login process is no more difficult than any other login process. The Twitch account can't reasonably collect any more data about users than users are willing to give it. I don't otherwise know what you propose as a realistic alternative.
(None of this was hostile, in case my response seems so.)
For the latter to support the needs of the former, they take on extra expenses when having purchased the materials in print, must now repurchase the materials, or access to them in electronic form. The game is expensive enough as it is.
Thanks for the insight. I understand the difficulties in paying for extra features or content for some. It certainly stops me from getting invested in Magic or 40k. But There is zero 'must' involved here. It's not mandatory content, and if the players already have books, then they already have all the capabilities to play the game. I have no doubt a digital service would be more convenient for some, and I certainly hope that Beyond offers some sort of free access to features and/or content, but I don't think it's fair to demand additional products and services for free in hindsight. I hope whatever payment model is offered, the feature set and content access will be more than reasonable.
As for how it relates to the simple email authentication: that's explained above. Many of these people already have enough on their plate, as it were, to be bothered with yet another login situation. There are countless instances of internet security issues already and every time you have to add another password and login to your repertoire, you increase the chances of exposing yourself, and others to the next round of hackers. This is a real issue for many people and not everyone wants to bandy about that much access information just to enjoy a game with friends. Are you suggesting they be punished for their right to privacy and sense of security? I didn't think so.
If it was simple standalone e-mail authentication, the complaint would remain. One shouldn't be re-using credentials for services, so without Twitch, the cumbersome nature of logging into an online service results in the same user experience. If security is the concern, then two-factor authentication would be an extra burden on those same demographics. And I'm not suggesting anyone be punished for their right to privacy, don't strawman my point. A service such as this necessitates account login authentication. The Twitch service is just as secure as one can reasonably expect. The login process is no more difficult than any other login process. The Twitch account can't reasonably collect any more data about users than users are willing to give it. I don't otherwise know what you propose as a realistic alternative.
(None of this was hostile, in case my response seems so.)
Did not take it as such, mine was not meant to be so either, but sometimes sarcastic overtones cut into my writing.
As I mentioned earlier, I was not speaking wholly for myself, just helping voice concerns of some of my 'crew'. I have a Twitch account, so I am not particularly bothered, but I do wish there were some way to gather it "all under one roof" so to speak. A way to connect without having so many different accounts. It's like having a wallet full of credit cards so thick that you lean when you sit.
Getting to the heat of the Twitch matter. I, personally, have no particular problems with Twitch, or Amazon, but I know many who do. Not with those accounts, per se, but with account sign-in in general. Many of my players are adverse to signing in to anything beyond their email. I even know at least a half a dozen people, and you do as well if you think about it, who do not even have email . The hardcore old-schoolers. By maintaining only a corporate sponsored login, you are leaving behind many, truly many, of the people who made D&D what it is today. Keep in mind that when D&D first entered the scene, no one, not one person involved with the concept, development, and playing of the game had either a cell-phone or a computer. But now many of my old players are kept from playing the game quite simply because they didn't become as successful in life as others. Let's face it, D&D has become an expensive hobby and under current direction, will soon become an elitist only hobby. Is this truly the future for D&D? Is it really to much to ask for the login to be simply email related?
All fair points. But back to the beginning, since this isn't a requirement to play at a table, even with other users who might use it at a table; this product simply might not be for them...
Just to jump on this point, DnD has really become MORE accessible with the aid of digital tools, not less. Basic DnD can by played with SRD only, and that would not have been as plausible in a pen and paper only era. When you jump into the base product you really only need a couple people around the table with the players guide. From there it goes up up and up. Im pretty happy with the way Wizards has been monetizing DnD. The books have been high quality, and there hasn't been anything people have been "required" to purchase to play. 5e has renewed my faith that the property is in good hands.
Wow, you really don't pay attention to things like a Table of Contents or an Index, do you. The books are as hard to navigate as ever, and in some cases worse. Who cares about fancy art that takes up space? The heart of the material is poorly thought out, many parts are missing full descriptions and explanations and the artwork is all proprietary so even the explanatory graphics cannot be included in the SRD. Your paying more money for lower quality information to be encased in barely higher quality materials.
As far as accessible, yes it has gotten more accessible, but that accessibility is at the core of its own problem. The quality and longevity of this oh so glorious accessibility stinks! It's never complete, and it's always been taken down at the start of the next version, sometimes sooner. I am asking for better quality for what we pay for, and that it not be removed from availability just because the providers no longer care about it..
Sounds like your just not going to be happy. "the heart of the material is poorly thought out". For a game you lament so much you decided to jump on the beta pretty quick. The issues you have mentioned are intrinsic to RPG's in general. At the end of the day you have to be ready for your DM to make a ruling one way or the other. That's why it's called the players guide and not "the rulebook".
Anyone new to this thread, before you post, take a moment to read through what's already posted, huh?
Binding to twitch account is really pain in ***. Period. It can be explained by much more then 10 pages, but it still pain in ***. Hopefully, this will change in future.
Anyone new to this thread, before you post, take a moment to read through what's already posted, huh?
Binding to twitch account is really pain in ***. Period. It can be explained by much more then 10 pages, but it still pain in ***. Hopefully, this will change in future.
It's not going to change, period.
DnDBeyond is Twitch, a DnDBeyond account is a Twitch account, period.
I agree when i saw that it was linked to a Twitch account i could not see the connection between DNDB and Twitch ...
I think there are better sign on options like Google/Facebook
I am awesome and I love cookies
I hate forum signatures.
I understand the curse/twitch/amazon, i was refering to the platform as in streaming web site and DnD ...
Why not to use it, because there are other options that non tech people are likely to already have.
I am awesome and I love cookies
Amazon sells books. Dungeons and Dragons makes books.
Twitch is a gaming platform. Currently there are loads of games being streamed for D&D.
Google Groups never really took off for D&D, 9/10 D&D gamer's use Discord and Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds and Skype. So I understand this.
Facebook. Could have worked, but doesn't really offer much more than a log-in feature and a supply of customers. If your developing an app and forum, you already own twitch. Doesn't make sense to sign in with facebook which is constantly changing their user agreements. Plus many people have complained in the past about Facebook selling people identities to Advertising. Now your details are safe (enough we assume). It also shows that D&D knows who their customer and fan base is.
Finally, if you had a company with advanced log-in security, why would you use another company to log into your products?
Some of us don't want to use either Facebook -or- Google so this solution is not ideal either.
I just don't get the problem here.
EDIT: Answering Clarich
These have been playing aids that have (since the disabling of certain members of the group) become ease of access for some. One of our venues offers very little space, so this offers an alternative to carrying of books and dice and maps and papers, etc... from venue to venue. You are under the impression that I am speaking solely for myself or possibly a group of individuals all under one circumstance. This is a mistake. I am speaking for several groups of players for whom the advent of tabletopping as brought the game back into their lives. The addition of these formats is a blessing to a lot of us, but at the same time, a drain on the pocketbooks of others. It is my belief, and not mine alone, that the demographic is designed of mixed groups, similar to ours where not all parties can afford materials that the GM alone may need, but that they need to be a part of to enjoy the game together. This is divided twice:
First, the players who would otherwise bring nothing to the table but their skills, who now require, for whatever reason, the interconnectivity of the internet to interact with the people and places in ways that are no longer accessible. Second, In order to supply that environment, comes the people, mainly GMs, who want to supply a good game environment for those otherwise cut-off from this lifelong passtime.
For the latter to support the needs of the former, they take on extra expenses when having purchased the materials in print, must now repurchase the materials, or access to them in electronic form. The game is expensive enough as it is.
Let me give you examples of people in such situations: Handicapped or disabled individuals. Individuals who travel extensively in their profession (salespeople to truck drivers, part-time students to politicians, you name it, it's not exactly a nine to five, weekends off world out there anymore). Use your imagination, I'm sure you can add to the list.
The market exists and is desired by a large group of players who have limited access to a Friday night game at Joe's, but who still desire regular contact with other gamers. These folks fit right into the very concept of this project.
As for how it relates to the simple email authentication: that's explained above. Many of these people already have enough on their plate, as it were, to be bothered with yet another login situation. There are countless instances of internet security issues already and every time you have to add another password and login to your repertoire, you increase the chances of exposing yourself, and others to the next round of hackers. This is a real issue for many people and not everyone wants to bandy about that much access information just to enjoy a game with friends. Are you suggesting they be punished for their right to privacy and sense of security? I didn't think so.
If you want this sort of thing to stay around, you have to think of the big picture. You need to consider every player and you need to consider every opinion. We, on the other hand, understand that if you are looking for a higher profit margin for a short run flash in the pan, that we may have to abandon the game. That won't help us, that won't help Curse/Twitch/Amazon. That won't help WotC/Hasbro. No one wins in the long run if you only think in terms of the short run.
@Static Care to stay on topic? The thread is about signing into the software with a Twitch account.
Does anyone know if we will be able to log on with curse or Amazon in the future?
I hate forum signatures.
Anyone new to this thread, before you post, take a moment to read through what's already posted.
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It can be explained by much more then 10 pages, but it still pain in ***.
Hopefully, this will change in future.
I haven't heard of Twitch prior to signing up with D&D Beyond. However, I don't have an issue with using it to sign in.