I have no problem with using an account to log into a cloud-based service. Especially for a beta, where the developers need to be able to track metrics for how users are using their product.
I have no problem with that account being a Twitch account. Better than WotC implementing a half-assed authentication system themselves.
I have no problem with the SRD being the only content for the beta. Free/free. Makes sense. It's a beta test of functionality. SRD is all you need.
I have no problem with a subscription model. It wouldn't be charging you for the content as much as it's charging you for the content delivery. Anyone is well within their rights to make their own app for themselves to use in private.
I really don't understand some people here. It's a beta. It's a product. It performs really well so far.
I definitely do not like the idea of an account that I never use to be associated with this account. I would like to see a separate login to this account and for it not to be attached to any other site for security reasons. Bad, Bad choice on sign up.
I definitely do not like the idea of an account that I never use to be associated with this account. I would like to see a separate login to this account and for it not to be attached to any other site for security reasons. Bad, Bad choice on sign up.
Why not make a burner account?
If you're inconvenienced by having an extra account for this product, wouldn't that be the same problem even if it wasn't a twitch account and used its own separate authentication?
I really don't understand some people here. It's a beta. It's a product. It performs really well so far.
I feel like you may be missing the point of a Beta Feedback forum.
The beta's build currently suggests that the final product would use Twitch. A majority of people in this thread would prefer not to use Twitch. That is feedback on the beta. It hasn't even been aggressively negative or toxic. It's just feedback.
To be blunt - if people refuse to use a Twitch account to help with beta testing, then that's fine, they can wait until the product is finished and they're probably not the sort of person that would provide useful feedback anyway.
It's a beta forum, this is feedback. I don't really care if they implement it at launch time or even a little after. I just don't want a portion of the population cut off from using the final service because of this.
Okay as a dev here I'm going to do a short explanation of single sign on and why it's used, there's a common theme from several people on here the shows a real lack of understanding when it comes to online systems and software developemnt so I'm going to try and break it down so you can understand whats going on.
Imagine I have a software company "Company A" over the years we've developed our own software done well and acquired a few other companies and their software. We now have several pieces of software acting independently of each other but they have several pieces of overlapping functionality (user accounts for example) It's a lot of work and costly to maintain user accounts across several different products so we create a unified micro service that exclusively handles a users account across all our products. I won't get into the full details of why things are going this way but they are, but to put it simply... it's better this way
This is what is essentially happening here, DnDBeyond ultimately belongs to Twitch, products under Twitch are going to require a Twitch account, end of.
I feel like you may be missing the point of a Beta Feedback forum.
The beta's build currently suggests that the final product would use Twitch. A majority of people in this thread would prefer not to use Twitch. That is feedback on the beta. It hasn't even been aggressively negative or toxic. It's just feedback.
I guess my observation is that it's a Curse/Twitch product, so the complaint that it uses a Twitch authentication system is a little ridiculous, especially since DnD beyond seems incredibly segmented from Twitch proper. If Blizzard were to make a licensed DnD branded game, wouldn't the same criticism be "I don't want to have to make a Battle.net account" ?
Begrudgingly accept that Curse/Twitch won the contract to build this, sure. That's on WotC. But since Curse/Twitch are the ones delivering this product, beta feedback seems more relevant to the product itself rather than critiquing the front door. I just don't know what people expected instead? A unique separate login system? People would still complain all the same about having to use an email account all the same. It's a grass-is-greener/hindsight complaint that has no answer, patch, fix, or tweak to overcome. I hate the phrase 'it is what it is', but it's accurate in this case.
But since Curse/Twitch are the ones delivering this product, beta feedback seems more relevant to the product itself rather than critiquing the front door.
D&D players are nervous about every door. It's probably a Mimic, or trapped, or both. Or it's just there and it's ugly, and the players were architects/landscape designers before they were adventurers and they can't help themselves... it's a character flaw...
I really don't understand some people here. It's a beta. It's a product. It performs really well so far.
I feel like you may be missing the point of a Beta Feedback forum.
The beta's build currently suggests that the final product would use Twitch. A majority of people in this thread would prefer not to use Twitch. That is feedback on the beta. It hasn't even been aggressively negative or toxic. It's just feedback.
That's the spot-on response that I think encapsulates most of the comments, my own included. I don't mind having a logon, it just seems odd to make that logon part of a different service and I was surprised to see linked to this product. It sure didn't stop me from signing up and using DNDB though! It would be nice if there was a "welcome to DNDB, here is why you are using a Twitch account" page. Just to answer the silly question of "why". That's my feedback suggestion really.
I just hope i dont have to install the twitch app to use D&DB. We know twitch is trying to get everyone to move over to it and its in beta now as well.
So you don't have an amazon account? Its the same thing. Twitch and Amazon.
And that's the magic answer because...?
Not everyone has all, or any, of these accounts. Not everyone wants all, or any, of these accounts. Whats wrong with good old fashioned, hardware driven software? Pop it in my PC and have access to what I need with out an internet connection. Every time I turn around it's join this account or join that account. And every time I join an account, it's not long before I have to spend money on something or other to get the complete package, or utilize a service to it's full potential, or some other reason to get more money out of my wallet. I have been playing D&D for decades. Bought the first edition brand new off the shelf and have been playing ever since, but the longer I play, the more expensive it becomes, and the more demanding the extra material becomes. I didn't invest in D&D, I play D&D.
At this point, my biggest concern is longevity of this project. In the past, not a single one of the D&D "Tools" has ever reached full completion or delivered as promised. Everyone of them stopped being supported when the bottom line caved.
I still play AD&D with some friends, 3rd with others and 4th with yet another group. More than half of my players have zero access to the internet, let alone accounts all over it.
Even so, all the old electronic and online tools are useless for one reason or another. At least with the 2nd Ed Tools, I can still do some creative works, but whenever I overtax the system, I have to gut it for stuff not pertinent to a given campaign. No such luck with online tools. Once you pull that plug, you have effectively abandoned us.
If I'm going to have to put myself out there yet again for my players, and apparently I am, not just financially, but online with yet another account, I'd like some reassurances that the end result will not die off and set in the shadows for eternity when you guys get tired of it or when your investors want to pull the plug. Just seems fair.
My two cents.
Well you have the books, DM screen and dice right? Why do you need software?
Because books get damaged easily when you have to pass them among 4 to 8 players several times a week. Dice get lost. DM's screens get used and abused, etc... The software is a longer lasting solution. MOSTLY because not everyone loses interest in the game just because WotC isn't making enough profit to suit Hasbro. We like to play D&D and we should not have to pay subscription prices forever after paying full price for hard materials, and subscription for a given length of time during active profit-making game-runs.
EDIT: another good reason is space. I had an entire section of my library dedicated to 3rd-ed books alone. And with WotC's take on pdfs, I lost a tremendously valuable and potentially irreplaceable section of that material to a simple leak in the ceiling.
So you don't have an amazon account? Its the same thing. Twitch and Amazon.
And that's the magic answer because...?
Not everyone has all, or any, of these accounts. Not everyone wants all, or any, of these accounts. Whats wrong with good old fashioned, hardware driven software? Pop it in my PC and have access to what I need with out an internet connection. Every time I turn around it's join this account or join that account. And every time I join an account, it's not long before I have to spend money on something or other to get the complete package, or utilize a service to it's full potential, or some other reason to get more money out of my wallet. I have been playing D&D for decades. Bought the first edition brand new off the shelf and have been playing ever since, but the longer I play, the more expensive it becomes, and the more demanding the extra material becomes. I didn't invest in D&D, I play D&D.
At this point, my biggest concern is longevity of this project. In the past, not a single one of the D&D "Tools" has ever reached full completion or delivered as promised. Everyone of them stopped being supported when the bottom line caved.
I still play AD&D with some friends, 3rd with others and 4th with yet another group. More than half of my players have zero access to the internet, let alone accounts all over it.
Even so, all the old electronic and online tools are useless for one reason or another. At least with the 2nd Ed Tools, I can still do some creative works, but whenever I overtax the system, I have to gut it for stuff not pertinent to a given campaign. No such luck with online tools. Once you pull that plug, you have effectively abandoned us.
If I'm going to have to put myself out there yet again for my players, and apparently I am, not just financially, but online with yet another account, I'd like some reassurances that the end result will not die off and set in the shadows for eternity when you guys get tired of it or when your investors want to pull the plug. Just seems fair.
My two cents.
Well you have the books, DM screen and dice right? Why do you need software?
Because books get damaged easily when you have to pass them among 4 to 8 players several times a week. Dice get lost. DM'screens get used and abused, etc... The software is a longer lasting solution. MOSTLY because not everyone loses interest in the game just because WotC isn't making enough profit to suit Hasbro. We like to play D&D and we should not have to pay subscription prices forever after paying full price for hard materials, and subscription for a given length of time during active profit-making game-runs.
Fantasy Grounds D&D Material is the same price as the Books. The roll20 D&D material is the same price as the books. So far there have been no indications that they will be offering discounts for buying those products if you already have the hardcovers.
The only way I can see it happening is that WotC appeases the Brick and Mortar stores with books like Volos Guide to Monster special cover. Hasbro getting a deal with Amazon to offer a kindle type of service with free PDFs on purchase. Perhaps with a voucher in the books for Brick and Mortar. PDFs might solve your problem of damaged books somewhat.
Software needs time and hours to conceptualise, develop, produce and market, so that will unlikely be free.
But the main point I want to make is that you are right. There should be a tool that players and the DMs could use which runs offline. My main reason is that not everybody can afford the internet, especially teenagers. (Sure it seems everyone has the internet, when your on the internet of course).
Whether or not you'll have to make a Twitch or Amazon account to download that software is another matter entirely.
Getting to the heat of the Twitch matter. I, personally, have no particular problems with Twitch, or Amazon, but I know many who do. Not with those accounts, per se, but with account sign-in in general. Many of my players are adverse to signing in to anything beyond their email. I even know at least a half a dozen people, and you do as well if you think about it, who do not even have email . The hardcore old-schoolers. By maintaining only a corporate sponsored login, you are leaving behind many, truly many, of the people who made D&D what it is today. Keep in mind that when D&D first entered the scene, no one, not one person involved with the concept, development, and playing of the game had either a cell-phone or a computer. But now many of my old players are kept from playing the game quite simply because they didn't become as successful in life as others. Let's face it, D&D has become an expensive hobby and under current direction, will soon become an elitist only hobby. Is this truly the future for D&D? Is it really to much to ask for the login to be simply email related?
Getting to the heat of the Twitch matter. I, personally, have no particular problems with Twitch, or Amazon, but I know many who do. Not with those accounts, per se, but with account sign-in in general. Many of my players are adverse to signing in to anything beyond their email. I even know at least a half a dozen people, and you do as well if you think about it, who do not even have email . The hardcore old-schoolers. By maintaining only a corporate sponsored login, you are leaving behind many, truly many, of the people who made D&D what it is today. Keep in mind that when D&D first entered the scene, no one, not one person involved with the concept, development, and playing of the game had either a cell-phone or a computer. But now many of my old players are kept from playing the game quite simply because they didn't become as successful in life as others. Let's face it, D&D has become an expensive hobby and under current direction, will soon become an elitist only hobby. Is this truly the future for D&D? Is it really to much to ask for the login to be simply email related?
I'm not sure I'm following.
DnDBeyond isn't a mandatory replacement for the game, at all. In many ways the books are more convenient to have in person at a table. The argument you've presented is that your players might not want or be able to use a digital product if it requires a login. You've also suggested that the costs of a subscription service, or digital purchase, and/or the costs of using digital tools (laptop/tablet/internet connection) are out of the reach of certain demographics. All fair points. But back to the beginning, since this isn't a requirement to play at a table, even with other users who might use it at a table; this product simply might not be for them...
I ask, what kind of digital product marketed to players of DnD or other tabletop games would those people you've described be a demographic? And how would that differ on your first point, using a simple email authentication as opposed to a twitch login?
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I have no problem with using an account to log into a cloud-based service. Especially for a beta, where the developers need to be able to track metrics for how users are using their product.
I have no problem with that account being a Twitch account. Better than WotC implementing a half-assed authentication system themselves.
I have no problem with the SRD being the only content for the beta. Free/free. Makes sense. It's a beta test of functionality. SRD is all you need.
I have no problem with a subscription model. It wouldn't be charging you for the content as much as it's charging you for the content delivery. Anyone is well within their rights to make their own app for themselves to use in private.
I really don't understand some people here. It's a beta. It's a product. It performs really well so far.
I hate forum signatures.
I definitely do not like the idea of an account that I never use to be associated with this account. I would like to see a separate login to this account and for it not to be attached to any other site for security reasons. Bad, Bad choice on sign up.
If you're inconvenienced by having an extra account for this product, wouldn't that be the same problem even if it wasn't a twitch account and used its own separate authentication?
I hate forum signatures.
It's a beta forum, this is feedback. I don't really care if they implement it at launch time or even a little after. I just don't want a portion of the population cut off from using the final service because of this.
It's not ideal.
It seems messy and redundant to me.
Additionally, what if I want a twitch account that isn't linked to my DnD account.
Okay as a dev here I'm going to do a short explanation of single sign on and why it's used, there's a common theme from several people on here the shows a real lack of understanding when it comes to online systems and software developemnt so I'm going to try and break it down so you can understand whats going on.
Imagine I have a software company "Company A" over the years we've developed our own software done well and acquired a few other companies and their software. We now have several pieces of software acting independently of each other but they have several pieces of overlapping functionality (user accounts for example) It's a lot of work and costly to maintain user accounts across several different products so we create a unified micro service that exclusively handles a users account across all our products. I won't get into the full details of why things are going this way but they are, but to put it simply... it's better this way
This is what is essentially happening here, DnDBeyond ultimately belongs to Twitch, products under Twitch are going to require a Twitch account, end of.
I hate forum signatures.
Curse accounts are Twitch accounts
D&D Beyond accounts are Twitch accounts
...And Death Comes Again
I just hope i dont have to install the twitch app to use D&DB. We know twitch is trying to get everyone to move over to it and its in beta now as well.
The solution really is to just use your Amazon account. Then you can link that to twitch very easily [link], and hey presto you have your D&D Beyond account.
If you haven't got an amazon account I would recommend getting one, they are pretty cool.
If your annoyed because you have to use online software. Erm... I have no solution.
Getting to the heat of the Twitch matter. I, personally, have no particular problems with Twitch, or Amazon, but I know many who do. Not with those accounts, per se, but with account sign-in in general. Many of my players are adverse to signing in to anything beyond their email. I even know at least a half a dozen people, and you do as well if you think about it, who do not even have email . The hardcore old-schoolers. By maintaining only a corporate sponsored login, you are leaving behind many, truly many, of the people who made D&D what it is today. Keep in mind that when D&D first entered the scene, no one, not one person involved with the concept, development, and playing of the game had either a cell-phone or a computer. But now many of my old players are kept from playing the game quite simply because they didn't become as successful in life as others. Let's face it, D&D has become an expensive hobby and under current direction, will soon become an elitist only hobby. Is this truly the future for D&D?
Is it really to much to ask for the login to be simply email related?
I hate forum signatures.