I am just not happy with the execution on the digital format, since I want Wizards and Beyond to work something out to allow the preservation of old content.
I am just not happy with the execution on the digital format, since I want Wizards and Beyond to work something out to allow the preservation of old content.
I wish I'd read your post before I'd answered, otherwise I would've gone for the third option on the poll rather than the first. I like having RP tips, lore and whatnot, but I can also appreciate the move going forward if there's a way to see the old stuff. I don't view a lot of the old content as a mistake to be corrected, merely a supplement (like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything's Lineage rules). Were it treated as such, I'd be firmly in the first option territory.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
Honestly the only part's I don't like are the drow and the gnolls and it's not even that their not all evil it ( at least for the drow) makes sense, it's just seems like a really big recton to do then sweep it along with the rest, I mean if i'm understanding their part right, this means the drow were never normal elves who joined the dark gods and when lost the war were pushed into the underdark, they were always there. They've gone from a mostly evil society to one that's mostly good, cause the new text mentions only a few cites have fallen to Loth, which doesn't make much sense since all but one of the drow gods are evil so it doesn't matter if the others aren't under Loth, I don't know sort of just seems to make Eilistraee and Dritz pointless now, there's so many good drow that they really shouldn't have to struggle now.
Please of course if I'm miss reading anything here anyone please respond.
Honestly the only part's I don't like are the drow and the gnolls and it's not even that their not all evil it ( at least for the drow) makes sense, it's just seems like a really big recton to do then sweep it along with the rest, I mean if i'm understanding their part right, this means the drow were never normal elves who joined the dark gods and when lost were pushed into the underdark, they were always there. They've gone from a mostly evil society to one that's mostly good, cause the new text mentions only a few cites have fallen to Loth, which doesn't make much sense since all but one of the drow gods are evil so it doesn't matter if the others aren't under Loth, I don't know sort of just seems to make Eilistraee and Dritz pointless now, there's so many good drow that they really shouldn't have to struggle now.
Please of course if I'm miss reading anything here anyone please respond.
You're misreading things, which is honestly to be expected when you look at an extremely short statement about something fairly complex. Lolth worship is not a thing in realms (IOW, settings) where Lolth is not canonically present - basically, Lolth hasn't corrupted drow cities outside the Forgotten Realms worlds of Oerth and Toril. There are drow in Eberron, there are drow in Exandria, there are even references to drow in Krynn (Dragonlance) although those were later contradicted. There's no Lolth in those settings though. In the Realms drow were not dark elves at first, they became drow when they lost Corellon Larethian's grace - nothing was retconned about this. Lolth's involvement in that is a long story, and nothing about that was retconned either. In other settings drow had other origins, so the whole "used to be regular elves before falling to darkness" schtick can't apply to them. Basically the errata says "some of this info we presented for Drow in general was really info for Drow from the Forgotten Realms and isn't true for Drow from other settings, so we're removing the FR-specific stuff from the general info". That's it. There's no real retcon, unless we're talking handlebar 'staches or grayscale settings for skin colour (which, retcon-wise, are silly things to argue about). Drow history wasn't changed.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Honestly the only part's I don't like are the drow and the gnolls and it's not even that their not all evil it ( at least for the drow) makes sense, it's just seems like a really big recton to do then sweep it along with the rest, I mean if i'm understanding their part right, this means the drow were never normal elves who joined the dark gods and when lost were pushed into the underdark, they were always there. They've gone from a mostly evil society to one that's mostly good, cause the new text mentions only a few cites have fallen to Loth, which doesn't make much sense since all but one of the drow gods are evil so it doesn't matter if the others aren't under Loth, I don't know sort of just seems to make Eilistraee and Dritz pointless now, there's so many good drow that they really shouldn't have to struggle now.
Please of course if I'm miss reading anything here anyone please respond.
You're misreading things, which is honestly to be expected when you look at an extremely short statement about something fairly complex. Lolth worship is not a thing in realms (IOW, settings) where Lolth is not canonically present - basically, Lolth hasn't corrupted drow cities outside the Forgotten Realms worlds of Oerth and Toril. There are drow in Eberron, there are drow in Exandria, there are even references to drow in Krynn (Dragonlance) although those were later contradicted. There's no Lolth in those settings though. In the Realms drow were not dark elves at first, they became drow when they lost Corellon Larethian's grace - nothing was retconned about this. Lolth's involvement in that is a long story, and nothing about that was retconned either. In other settings drow had other origins, so the whole "used to be regular elves before falling to darkness" schtick can't apply to them. Basically the errata says "some of this info we presented for Drow in general was really info for Drow from the Forgotten Realms and isn't true for Drow from other settings, so we're removing the FR-specific stuff from the general info". That's it. There's no real retcon, unless we're talking handlebar 'staches or grayscale settings for skin colour (which, retcon-wise, are silly things to argue about). Drow history wasn't changed.
True it was just handled very clumsily. And it deserved better.
Honestly the only part's I don't like are the drow and the gnolls and it's not even that their not all evil it ( at least for the drow) makes sense, it's just seems like a really big recton to do then sweep it along with the rest, I mean if i'm understanding their part right, this means the drow were never normal elves who joined the dark gods and when lost were pushed into the underdark, they were always there. They've gone from a mostly evil society to one that's mostly good, cause the new text mentions only a few cites have fallen to Loth, which doesn't make much sense since all but one of the drow gods are evil so it doesn't matter if the others aren't under Loth, I don't know sort of just seems to make Eilistraee and Dritz pointless now, there's so many good drow that they really shouldn't have to struggle now.
Please of course if I'm miss reading anything here anyone please respond.
You're misreading things, which is honestly to be expected when you look at an extremely short statement about something fairly complex. Lolth worship is not a thing in realms (IOW, settings) where Lolth is not canonically present - basically, Lolth hasn't corrupted drow cities outside the Forgotten Realms worlds of Oerth and Toril. There are drow in Eberron, there are drow in Exandria, there are even references to drow in Krynn (Dragonlance) although those were later contradicted. There's no Lolth in those settings though. In the Realms drow were not dark elves at first, they became drow when they lost Corellon Larethian's grace - nothing was retconned about this. Lolth's involvement in that is a long story, and nothing about that was retconned either. In other settings drow had other origins, so the whole "used to be regular elves before falling to darkness" schtick can't apply to them. Basically the errata says "some of this info we presented for Drow in general was really info for Drow from the Forgotten Realms and isn't true for Drow from other settings, so we're removing the FR-specific stuff from the general info". That's it. There's no real retcon, unless we're talking handlebar 'staches or grayscale settings for skin colour (which, retcon-wise, are silly things to argue about). Drow history wasn't changed.
True it was just handled very clumsily. And it deserved better.
With respect, it's an erratum that changes nothing of substance. There's no "deserves" to it, other than maybe not making more of it than it is. I get that people can be emotionally attached, but this is really inconsequential.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Looking at the current numbers the errata might not be all that controversial after all. I guess I will have to check back later and see if there have been any major swings.
Honestly if you want a more accurate polling I recommend a site other than beyond, as judging from the response many threads get, I would say a large portion of the sites user base or at least those active on the forums, belong to the "woke" community wether they use the term or not.
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If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
Honestly if you want a more accurate polling I recommend a site other than beyond, as judging from the response many threads get, I would say a large portion of the sites user base or at least those active on the forums, belong to the "woke" community wether they use the term or not.
So do you have a good ole boy site you wanna suggest?
Honestly if you want a more accurate polling I recommend a site other than beyond, as judging from the response many threads get, I would say a large portion of the sites user base or at least those active on the forums, belong to the "woke" community wether they use the term or not.
So do you have a good ole boy site you wanna suggest?
As far as having both a polling system and a large enough user base I'd say dnd reddit. However I'm not very active on it so I couldn't say how unbiased (not quite the word I'm looking for) the results would be. Also unfortunately I'm not aware of any other dnd related forums as I'm not much of a forum goer.
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If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
There are drow in Eberron, there are drow in Exandria, there are even references to drow in Krynn (Dragonlance) although those were later contradicted. There's no Lolth in those settings though.
UMMMM ACKTUALLY... Lolth does exist in Exandria. The difference is that a large amount of Drow there reject her influence, though there are still some cults that do follow her.
That said, Exandria's take on "traditionally evil" races has always been diverse and divergent. This is something that, as I understand it, also exists in Faerun, but we just seem to focus on Menzobarranzan and Lolthites which are understandably evil-skewing, and even then we get characters like Drizzy Drizzt. It's almost like NPCs have some kind of simulated agency. *Twilight Zone Music*
Honestly if you want a more accurate polling I recommend a site other than beyond, as judging from the response many threads get, I would say a large portion of the sites user base or at least those active on the forums, belong to the "woke" community wether they use the term or not.
Sorry, these are the forums that I frequent. DnDBeyond is also the product most affected by the errata since the words can't magically disappear from the books currently published, so the site itself seems pretty relevant to the question at hand.
Honestly if you want a more accurate polling I recommend a site other than beyond, as judging from the response many threads get, I would say a large portion of the sites user base or at least those active on the forums, belong to the "woke" community wether they use the term or not.
I would reckon that "a large portion" of D&D players in general are, as you say, woke. But I'm not sure how you'd go about checking.
Honestly if you want a more accurate polling I recommend a site other than beyond, as judging from the response many threads get, I would say a large portion of the sites user base or at least those active on the forums, belong to the "woke" community wether they use the term or not.
I would reckon that "a large portion" of D&D players in general are, as you say, woke. But I'm not sure how you'd go about checking.
Honestly if you want a more accurate polling I recommend a site other than beyond, as judging from the response many threads get, I would say a large portion of the sites user base or at least those active on the forums, belong to the "woke" community wether they use the term or not.
I would reckon that "a large portion" of D&D players in general are, as you say, woke. But I'm not sure how you'd go about checking.
What? You didn't get the obligatory tattoo?
Not yet. I'll check my mailbox tomorrow though.
To get back on topic (my bad), I voted "I don't care." I am so, so tired of the neverending outrage cycle. These changes mean nothing to me. What I would actually really appreciate would be a detailed and sources-cited breakdown of the true racist and imperialist roots of some of these monsters and the ways they're conceptualized, described, and written; published by WotC, to take legitimate responsibility for countering the noospheric damage done by the property they've chosen to steward, and to shut up all the folks who -- correctly -- insist that this is fundamentally meaningless PR. I'd appreciate actual first-party acknowledgment of the cognitive dissonance caused by recognizing just how problematic this game is and always has been (for reasons reaching far beyond the scope of racial alignment concerns), while still thinking it's really great and wanting to share it with people. There's a lot I'd love to see from Wizards, that I never will. This? This is not worth getting mad OR excited about.
The only reason we continue to see outrage over things as pithy as this, is that outrage drives engagement. Every individual and every website you see channelling outrage (and yes, counter-outrage a la "look at these chuds getting mad" or "this is good, actually" absolutely counts) is gaining more capital from doing so, than from not doing so. One day I hope everyone reading my posts will think, "golly, that user sure is smart," raising my social capital. Trust no one. >:)
The only reason we continue to see outrage over things as pithy as this, is that outrage drives engagement. Every individual and every website you see channelling outrage (and yes, counter-outrage a la "look at these chuds getting mad" or "this is good, actually" absolutely counts) is gaining more capital from doing so, than from not doing so. One day I hope everyone reading my posts will think, "golly, that user sure is smart," raising my social capital. Trust no one. >:)
This is why I created the poll to begin with. Strip away the sensationalist nonsense and see how the player base actually feels about it. Well, at least those that are here anyway.
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She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
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Lets stop guessing and lets see the numbers.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Not a lot of votes yet, but it doesn't seem to be a lot of hate at the moment. Maybe things will be different by morning.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Ah, the calm before the storm...
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I'll just take nr3. Even if I think Beholders and Mindflayers shouldn't have been touched. Or does this mean they'll introduce them as pc races soon?
I am happy with the errata.
I am just not happy with the execution on the digital format, since I want Wizards and Beyond to work something out to allow the preservation of old content.
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I wish I'd read your post before I'd answered, otherwise I would've gone for the third option on the poll rather than the first. I like having RP tips, lore and whatnot, but I can also appreciate the move going forward if there's a way to see the old stuff. I don't view a lot of the old content as a mistake to be corrected, merely a supplement (like Tasha's Cauldron of Everything's Lineage rules). Were it treated as such, I'd be firmly in the first option territory.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
Honestly the only part's I don't like are the drow and the gnolls and it's not even that their not all evil it ( at least for the drow) makes sense, it's just seems like a really big recton to do then sweep it along with the rest, I mean if i'm understanding their part right, this means the drow were never normal elves who joined the dark gods and when lost the war were pushed into the underdark, they were always there. They've gone from a mostly evil society to one that's mostly good, cause the new text mentions only a few cites have fallen to Loth, which doesn't make much sense since all but one of the drow gods are evil so it doesn't matter if the others aren't under Loth, I don't know sort of just seems to make Eilistraee and Dritz pointless now, there's so many good drow that they really shouldn't have to struggle now.
Please of course if I'm miss reading anything here anyone please respond.
You're misreading things, which is honestly to be expected when you look at an extremely short statement about something fairly complex. Lolth worship is not a thing in realms (IOW, settings) where Lolth is not canonically present - basically, Lolth hasn't corrupted drow cities outside the Forgotten Realms worlds of Oerth and Toril. There are drow in Eberron, there are drow in Exandria, there are even references to drow in Krynn (Dragonlance) although those were later contradicted. There's no Lolth in those settings though. In the Realms drow were not dark elves at first, they became drow when they lost Corellon Larethian's grace - nothing was retconned about this. Lolth's involvement in that is a long story, and nothing about that was retconned either. In other settings drow had other origins, so the whole "used to be regular elves before falling to darkness" schtick can't apply to them. Basically the errata says "some of this info we presented for Drow in general was really info for Drow from the Forgotten Realms and isn't true for Drow from other settings, so we're removing the FR-specific stuff from the general info". That's it. There's no real retcon, unless we're talking handlebar 'staches or grayscale settings for skin colour (which, retcon-wise, are silly things to argue about). Drow history wasn't changed.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
True it was just handled very clumsily. And it deserved better.
With respect, it's an erratum that changes nothing of substance. There's no "deserves" to it, other than maybe not making more of it than it is. I get that people can be emotionally attached, but this is really inconsequential.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Good morning everyone.
Looking at the current numbers the errata might not be all that controversial after all. I guess I will have to check back later and see if there have been any major swings.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Honestly if you want a more accurate polling I recommend a site other than beyond, as judging from the response many threads get, I would say a large portion of the sites user base or at least those active on the forums, belong to the "woke" community wether they use the term or not.
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
So do you have a good ole boy site you wanna suggest?
As far as having both a polling system and a large enough user base I'd say dnd reddit. However I'm not very active on it so I couldn't say how unbiased (not quite the word I'm looking for) the results would be. Also unfortunately I'm not aware of any other dnd related forums as I'm not much of a forum goer.
If I can't say something nice, I try to not say anything at all. So if I suddenly stop participating in a topic that's probably why.
UMMMM ACKTUALLY... Lolth does exist in Exandria. The difference is that a large amount of Drow there reject her influence, though there are still some cults that do follow her.
That said, Exandria's take on "traditionally evil" races has always been diverse and divergent. This is something that, as I understand it, also exists in Faerun, but we just seem to focus on Menzobarranzan and Lolthites which are understandably evil-skewing, and even then we get characters like Drizzy Drizzt. It's almost like NPCs have some kind of simulated agency. *Twilight Zone Music*
Sorry, these are the forums that I frequent. DnDBeyond is also the product most affected by the errata since the words can't magically disappear from the books currently published, so the site itself seems pretty relevant to the question at hand.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I would reckon that "a large portion" of D&D players in general are, as you say, woke. But I'm not sure how you'd go about checking.
What? You didn't get the obligatory tattoo?
Not yet. I'll check my mailbox tomorrow though.
To get back on topic (my bad), I voted "I don't care." I am so, so tired of the neverending outrage cycle. These changes mean nothing to me. What I would actually really appreciate would be a detailed and sources-cited breakdown of the true racist and imperialist roots of some of these monsters and the ways they're conceptualized, described, and written; published by WotC, to take legitimate responsibility for countering the noospheric damage done by the property they've chosen to steward, and to shut up all the folks who -- correctly -- insist that this is fundamentally meaningless PR. I'd appreciate actual first-party acknowledgment of the cognitive dissonance caused by recognizing just how problematic this game is and always has been (for reasons reaching far beyond the scope of racial alignment concerns), while still thinking it's really great and wanting to share it with people. There's a lot I'd love to see from Wizards, that I never will. This? This is not worth getting mad OR excited about.
The only reason we continue to see outrage over things as pithy as this, is that outrage drives engagement. Every individual and every website you see channelling outrage (and yes, counter-outrage a la "look at these chuds getting mad" or "this is good, actually" absolutely counts) is gaining more capital from doing so, than from not doing so. One day I hope everyone reading my posts will think, "golly, that user sure is smart," raising my social capital. Trust no one. >:)
This is why I created the poll to begin with. Strip away the sensationalist nonsense and see how the player base actually feels about it. Well, at least those that are here anyway.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master