So I was wondering can a plasmoid have a shape of things like a cat or dog and can it have the shape of a small parachute because it says that while in a humanoid form you can wear armor but it never says that you can't become a cat because it also says SHAPECHANGER-as an action you can reshape your body to give yourself a head 1 or 2 arms 1 or 2 legs and makeshift hands and feet. Nowhere in there does it say human, humanoid, or humanlike. But back to while in a humanoid form that only means that if I did use my shape changer ability AND I want to wear armor I need to shape change again and have a humanoid form.
I play it as my plasmoid can change their form into any shape, but he's still a blob for the most part. My DM was even cool with liquifying myself to fit under a simple door. One of the other character's nickname for my plasmoid is Puddle because of this. My DM was even me cool reskinning an owl familiar as a flying jellyfish type thing as his wildshape companion.
I'd say yes, but you'd be a cat-blob or a dog-blob.
It’s going to be a DM ruling. I might let you be a cat, sure, but a big cat. Changing shape doesn’t mean you have less matter making you up, so you need to still maintain your size (small or medium). Since you have to choose one at character creation, you can’t switch back and forth, and you can’t go smaller than small (like a house cat would be).
That would by my ruling, anyway. Your DM might say differently.
RAW, I'd say no. Being able to shapechange is flavour, and the ability text doesn't say you can change form. Until Crawford weighs in, I'm not sure there is a 100% resolution, but if it were intended, I'm sure they'd have explicitly included the ability to change into different creatures/objects/etc in the ability text.
As for whether your DM would allow it (which is, ultimately, what really matters) is anyone's guess. I know some that would, some that refuse point-blank.
Personally, I'd be very reluctant to let a Plasmoid free reign to change into anything. Their abilities are already reasonably strong without this. I'd probably either go with Xalthu's suggestion, or I'd say that you get X number of shapes, pick what they are at character creation and then you can choose from those during the adventure. If that's too powerful, I might impose a number of shifts per short or long rest.
So, yeah. Don't think it's RAW, but it is cool and makes sense so I'd want to allow it, but then again it'd lead to a very powerful race that would probably make it the best one by a country mile. The joys of being a DM!
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Parachute? No because they are objects not creatures. Can you look like other creatures? Sort of. You could take the same generic shape but you can’t form detailed features like eyes, teeth, whiskers, claws. No fur or feathers etc, and you still have your normal colouration and texture so you look like a large Harribo gummy bear version of the animal and could never ‘pass’ for the real thing.
Along these same lines, and going beyond clearly stated rules, how would any of you rule if a plasmoid uses disguise self in creative ways. The spell states that you cannot change your body type, and need the same basic arrangement of limbs, but it does not explicitly state that you need to resemble a creature. Could a plasmoid make themselves into a generally rectangular shape and then use disguise self to make themselves look like a chest of drawers or a crate or something like that? Would a rock or bush be more reasonable depending on the circumstances? Could they spread themselves out on the ground and use the spell to camouflage themselves as dirt or a puddle of water?
Obviously none of this would hold up to physical inspection, but how far would you think a plasmoid could shape themselves outside of what is stated in the description of their shape self ability (which only mentions a humanlike shape or a limbless blob)?
Yes you should see the one that one of my players came up with she basically made a anime character it was amusing if your dm Is cool with it I say yes.
Well it only says humanlike when talking about wearing armor so if am a cat blob then I can not wear armor but I can then shapechange again to have a humanoid shape
The extendible pseudopod is a bit more than flavor....
As far as change shape into a cat? It's not "change shape" it's "shape self". You're not Odo on DS9 or a Mimic RAW, though with both this Plasmoid and the Dralastite species from the original Star Frontier this species is lifted from I'm sure some groups let folks go a little Hanna Barbera cartoony and allowed things like kites, etc. Basically the closes you can come to a cat is giving yourself two legs, two arms, all with some sort of "foot" and a head, and I guess sprout a pseudopod to pretend you have a prehensile tail, but no one is going to mistake you or recognize you as a cat if you're walking around on all fours in a stricter game. Ooze have enough cool features as it is.
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So I was wondering can a plasmoid have a shape of things like a cat or dog and can it have the shape of a small parachute.
The actual text indicates it has the following limits on shape
A sleeping (or otherwise relaxed) plasmoid resembles a rock, and presumably has no limbs or head.
It may have one or two legs. It does not seem to be required to have any.
It may have one or two arms. It does not seem to be required to have any.
It may have a head. It does not seem to be required to have one.
It can extrude a weak pseudopod that can manipulate things.
I would probably say it can turn into a form resembling a cat or dog, but it will still look like a plasmoid and doesn't get any mechanical benefits from doing so. It probably can't turn into something much resembling a parachute, as it lacks abilities that would grant slow fall or gliding.
Could the arms take the form of wings, though? Or even glide capable if not powered flight?
And can they use disguise kits? Could a plasmoid make a 'skin suit' that they could slip into and occupy?
They can take the form of wings as long as they have no mechanical effect. I see no reason to assume a plasmoid cannot use a disguise kit, they just aren't any better at it than any other character.
Could the arms take the form of wings, though? Or even glide capable if not powered flight?
And can they use disguise kits? Could a plasmoid make a 'skin suit' that they could slip into and occupy?
I'd say they could maybe look like blob-like and vaguely wing shaped (like that Sam Smith photo that's going around), but no on the flight or glide speed; that's giving them an ability they don't have, a new movement type it too much.
A disguise kit, sure, but only to look like another plasmoid. A skin suit seems like it would be beyond a disguise kit.
I'm also realizing in my earlier post about the cat, I should have been more clear that I don't think anyone would actually think the creature was a cat. It could be a roughly, and probably awkwardly, furless, cat-shaped blob, definitely at the bottom of the uncanny valley of the cats. Maybe in the dark, at a distance, someone might think it was a weird looking cat, but it would not pass close inspection.
Could the arms take the form of wings, though? Or even glide capable if not powered flight?
And can they use disguise kits? Could a plasmoid make a 'skin suit' that they could slip into and occupy?
I'd say they could maybe look like blob-like and vaguely wing shaped (like that Sam Smith photo that's going around), but no on the flight or glide speed; that's giving them an ability they don't have, a new movement type it too much.
A disguise kit, sure, but only to look like another plasmoid. A skin suit seems like it would be beyond a disguise kit.
I'm also realizing in my earlier post about the cat, I should have been more clear that I don't think anyone would actually think the creature was a cat. It could be a roughly, and probably awkwardly, furless, cat-shaped blob, definitely at the bottom of the uncanny valley of the cats. Maybe in the dark, at a distance, someone might think it was a weird looking cat, but it would not pass close inspection.
That is like saying a disguise kit cannot make a human look like an elf, yet humans have been playing elves in various productions for a very long time. If the plasmoid was in a cat suit, how would anyone see their plasmoid-ness? If someone IRL is bundled up for winter, can you tell what skin colour they have?
That's way outside the parameters of a disguise kit. A disguise kit is not the Jim Henson Creature Shop. It's a make up and some material for small prosthetics. Sorta like the Star Trek Make up kit. Humanoids can attempt to approximate the features of other Humanoids with DC set by the DM. An Ooze convincingly portraying a humanoid or any mammal is outside the parameters of the kit.
Now, what I might allow for is a Plasmoid disguise kit that would provide pigments and maybe gelatins so that the Plasmoid could construct a sort of "gillie suit" to imitate other Oozes.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Could the arms take the form of wings, though? Or even glide capable if not powered flight?
And can they use disguise kits? Could a plasmoid make a 'skin suit' that they could slip into and occupy?
I'd say they could maybe look like blob-like and vaguely wing shaped (like that Sam Smith photo that's going around), but no on the flight or glide speed; that's giving them an ability they don't have, a new movement type it too much.
A disguise kit, sure, but only to look like another plasmoid. A skin suit seems like it would be beyond a disguise kit.
I'm also realizing in my earlier post about the cat, I should have been more clear that I don't think anyone would actually think the creature was a cat. It could be a roughly, and probably awkwardly, furless, cat-shaped blob, definitely at the bottom of the uncanny valley of the cats. Maybe in the dark, at a distance, someone might think it was a weird looking cat, but it would not pass close inspection.
That is like saying a disguise kit cannot make a human look like an elf, yet humans have been playing elves in various productions for a very long time. If the plasmoid was in a cat suit, how would anyone see their plasmoid-ness? If someone IRL is bundled up for winter, can you tell what skin colour they have?
Humans and elves both have skin naturally. All they need is some prosthetic ears and maybe some makeup to make their face look thinner. It’s not a full suit. Of course, you’re welcome to try and it will just be your DM’s prerogative about what works at their table. Certainly there’s games that allow much more latitude about that kind of thing.
That's way outside the parameters of a disguise kit.
The parameters of a disguise kit are not at all well defined.
Xanathar's provides better guidance, and the listing of the contents of the kit makes the notion of a disguise allowing a Plasmoid to disguise itself as a kit highly unlikely. A pouch for a full creature body practical effect, nah.
I do like my Gillie Suit idea though I've been reminded Plasmoids can change pigmentation anyway.
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First two sentences of the species descrption, bold mine.
Plasmoids are amorphous beings with no typical shape. In the presence of other folk, they often adopt a similar shape, but there’s little chance of mistaking a plasmoid for anything else.
Sounds like quite a challenge for some make up, hair dye, and scraps of clothing.
First two sentences of the species descrption, bold mine.
Plasmoids are amorphous beings with no typical shape. In the presence of other folk, they often adopt a similar shape, but there’s little chance of mistaking a plasmoid for anything else.
Sounds like quite a challenge for some make up, hair dye, and scraps of clothing.
That talks about normal customs of the race, not about what the race is capable of. There is normally little chance of mistaking a human for an orc, either. Or, for, say, Cousin It. Or some young barely out of their teens man for an elderly woman.
We are talking 'with effort' here.
Skin can be covered with clothing, with a mask, gloves, etc. "Wear clothing an armour" means they can wear gloves, hats, shoes...
Meanwhile, they can but are not obligated to make a head, yet there is no indication exactly how they sense without one. They are amorphous but when they make a pseudopod, it contains no sensory organs, so they cannot move their eyes wherever they want to? The pseudopod cannot even feel things? How does that work? They are not as deeply thought out as you seem to think.
They're as open ended as you and your DM want them to be. I'd still stick close to Shape Self feature:
As an action, you can reshape your body to give yourself a head, one or two arms, one or two legs, and makeshift hands and feet, or you can revert to a limbless blob. While you have a humanlike shape, you can wear clothing and armor made for a Humanoid of your size.
I don't think I'd consider any kind of changes to how many legs or arms or heads would simulate a Changeling or any kind of Disguise Self spell. You're a medium or small blob of goo and can orientate your outer membrane in whatever way possible, but you're still a blob of goo.
First two sentences of the species descrption, bold mine.
Plasmoids are amorphous beings with no typical shape. In the presence of other folk, they often adopt a similar shape, but there’s little chance of mistaking a plasmoid for anything else.
Sounds like quite a challenge for some make up, hair dye, and scraps of clothing.
That talks about normal customs of the race, not about what the race is capable of. There is normally little chance of mistaking a human for an orc, either. Or, for, say, Cousin It. Or some young barely out of their teens man for an elderly woman.
We are talking 'with effort' here.
Skin can be covered with clothing, with a mask, gloves, etc. "Wear clothing an armour" means they can wear gloves, hats, shoes...
Meanwhile, they can but are not obligated to make a head, yet there is no indication exactly how they sense without one. They are amorphous but when they make a pseudopod, it contains no sensory organs, so they cannot move their eyes wherever they want to? The pseudopod cannot even feel things? How does that work? They are not as deeply thought out as you seem to think.
Kind of feels like we're going outside of the realm of the intent of the discussion with that thought. Like, any species can pile on clothes and make themselves mistakable for other humanoid races by obscuring every identifiable aspect of them. Plasmoids can do similar, I'd imagine (although harder, since they're so different in terms of "skin" etc).
But my understanding of the spirit of the conversation was more a case of whether the Plasmoid can utilise their abilities to do it better than others, perhaps with the use of a Disguise Kit as well.
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Can a plasmoid transform into a non humanoid shape?
Yes, it is stated in the rules, also Plasmoids are not humanoid, they are oozes. As such, if they don't wear armor or clothing, nothing in the rules say they have to conform to humanoid looks or motions. My Plasmoid Tealbouce, (4 Psyblade Rogue, 2 Monk) had no gear, no weapons, just a Barrel they used as both a sleeping bag, and something to store loot and navigation tools in. 90% of the time Tealbounce moved and looked like a Snail. Eye stalks when needed, Mouth Stalk when needed, otherwise Teal was a sentient blue green slime.
So yes, if you want to move and look like a quadruped, there is nothing in the rules preventing it, and because the rules allow for Small sized, you can look like a 30lbs slime cat. Personally I prefer the 30lbs Snail or bouncing ball slime.
So I was wondering can a plasmoid have a shape of things like a cat or dog and can it have the shape of a small parachute because it says that while in a humanoid form you can wear armor but it never says that you can't become a cat because it also says SHAPECHANGER-as an action you can reshape your body to give yourself a head 1 or 2 arms 1 or 2 legs and makeshift hands and feet. Nowhere in there does it say human, humanoid, or humanlike. But back to while in a humanoid form that only means that if I did use my shape changer ability AND I want to wear armor I need to shape change again and have a humanoid form.
I play it as my plasmoid can change their form into any shape, but he's still a blob for the most part. My DM was even cool with liquifying myself to fit under a simple door. One of the other character's nickname for my plasmoid is Puddle because of this. My DM was even me cool reskinning an owl familiar as a flying jellyfish type thing as his wildshape companion.
I'd say yes, but you'd be a cat-blob or a dog-blob.
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It’s going to be a DM ruling. I might let you be a cat, sure, but a big cat. Changing shape doesn’t mean you have less matter making you up, so you need to still maintain your size (small or medium). Since you have to choose one at character creation, you can’t switch back and forth, and you can’t go smaller than small (like a house cat would be).
That would by my ruling, anyway. Your DM might say differently.
RAW, I'd say no. Being able to shapechange is flavour, and the ability text doesn't say you can change form. Until Crawford weighs in, I'm not sure there is a 100% resolution, but if it were intended, I'm sure they'd have explicitly included the ability to change into different creatures/objects/etc in the ability text.
As for whether your DM would allow it (which is, ultimately, what really matters) is anyone's guess. I know some that would, some that refuse point-blank.
Personally, I'd be very reluctant to let a Plasmoid free reign to change into anything. Their abilities are already reasonably strong without this. I'd probably either go with Xalthu's suggestion, or I'd say that you get X number of shapes, pick what they are at character creation and then you can choose from those during the adventure. If that's too powerful, I might impose a number of shifts per short or long rest.
So, yeah. Don't think it's RAW, but it is cool and makes sense so I'd want to allow it, but then again it'd lead to a very powerful race that would probably make it the best one by a country mile. The joys of being a DM!
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Parachute? No because they are objects not creatures. Can you look like other creatures? Sort of. You could take the same generic shape but you can’t form detailed features like eyes, teeth, whiskers, claws. No fur or feathers etc, and you still have your normal colouration and texture so you look like a large Harribo gummy bear version of the animal and could never ‘pass’ for the real thing.
Along these same lines, and going beyond clearly stated rules, how would any of you rule if a plasmoid uses disguise self in creative ways. The spell states that you cannot change your body type, and need the same basic arrangement of limbs, but it does not explicitly state that you need to resemble a creature. Could a plasmoid make themselves into a generally rectangular shape and then use disguise self to make themselves look like a chest of drawers or a crate or something like that? Would a rock or bush be more reasonable depending on the circumstances? Could they spread themselves out on the ground and use the spell to camouflage themselves as dirt or a puddle of water?
Obviously none of this would hold up to physical inspection, but how far would you think a plasmoid could shape themselves outside of what is stated in the description of their shape self ability (which only mentions a humanlike shape or a limbless blob)?
Yes you should see the one that one of my players came up with she basically made a anime character it was amusing if your dm Is cool with it I say yes.
Well it only says humanlike when talking about wearing armor so if am a cat blob then I can not wear armor but I can then shapechange again to have a humanoid shape
The extendible pseudopod is a bit more than flavor....
As far as change shape into a cat? It's not "change shape" it's "shape self". You're not Odo on DS9 or a Mimic RAW, though with both this Plasmoid and the Dralastite species from the original Star Frontier this species is lifted from I'm sure some groups let folks go a little Hanna Barbera cartoony and allowed things like kites, etc. Basically the closes you can come to a cat is giving yourself two legs, two arms, all with some sort of "foot" and a head, and I guess sprout a pseudopod to pretend you have a prehensile tail, but no one is going to mistake you or recognize you as a cat if you're walking around on all fours in a stricter game. Ooze have enough cool features as it is.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The actual text indicates it has the following limits on shape
I would probably say it can turn into a form resembling a cat or dog, but it will still look like a plasmoid and doesn't get any mechanical benefits from doing so. It probably can't turn into something much resembling a parachute, as it lacks abilities that would grant slow fall or gliding.
They can take the form of wings as long as they have no mechanical effect. I see no reason to assume a plasmoid cannot use a disguise kit, they just aren't any better at it than any other character.
I'd say they could maybe look like blob-like and vaguely wing shaped (like that Sam Smith photo that's going around), but no on the flight or glide speed; that's giving them an ability they don't have, a new movement type it too much.
A disguise kit, sure, but only to look like another plasmoid. A skin suit seems like it would be beyond a disguise kit.
I'm also realizing in my earlier post about the cat, I should have been more clear that I don't think anyone would actually think the creature was a cat. It could be a roughly, and probably awkwardly, furless, cat-shaped blob, definitely at the bottom of the uncanny valley of the cats. Maybe in the dark, at a distance, someone might think it was a weird looking cat, but it would not pass close inspection.
That's way outside the parameters of a disguise kit. A disguise kit is not the Jim Henson Creature Shop. It's a make up and some material for small prosthetics. Sorta like the Star Trek Make up kit. Humanoids can attempt to approximate the features of other Humanoids with DC set by the DM. An Ooze convincingly portraying a humanoid or any mammal is outside the parameters of the kit.
Now, what I might allow for is a Plasmoid disguise kit that would provide pigments and maybe gelatins so that the Plasmoid could construct a sort of "gillie suit" to imitate other Oozes.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The parameters of a disguise kit are not at all well defined.
Humans and elves both have skin naturally. All they need is some prosthetic ears and maybe some makeup to make their face look thinner. It’s not a full suit. Of course, you’re welcome to try and it will just be your DM’s prerogative about what works at their table. Certainly there’s games that allow much more latitude about that kind of thing.
Xanathar's provides better guidance, and the listing of the contents of the kit makes the notion of a disguise allowing a Plasmoid to disguise itself as a kit highly unlikely. A pouch for a full creature body practical effect, nah.
I do like my Gillie Suit idea though I've been reminded Plasmoids can change pigmentation anyway.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
First two sentences of the species descrption, bold mine.
Sounds like quite a challenge for some make up, hair dye, and scraps of clothing.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
They're as open ended as you and your DM want them to be. I'd still stick close to Shape Self feature:
I don't think I'd consider any kind of changes to how many legs or arms or heads would simulate a Changeling or any kind of Disguise Self spell. You're a medium or small blob of goo and can orientate your outer membrane in whatever way possible, but you're still a blob of goo.
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Kind of feels like we're going outside of the realm of the intent of the discussion with that thought. Like, any species can pile on clothes and make themselves mistakable for other humanoid races by obscuring every identifiable aspect of them. Plasmoids can do similar, I'd imagine (although harder, since they're so different in terms of "skin" etc).
But my understanding of the spirit of the conversation was more a case of whether the Plasmoid can utilise their abilities to do it better than others, perhaps with the use of a Disguise Kit as well.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Can a plasmoid transform into a non humanoid shape?
Yes, it is stated in the rules, also Plasmoids are not humanoid, they are oozes. As such, if they don't wear armor or clothing, nothing in the rules say they have to conform to humanoid looks or motions. My Plasmoid Tealbouce, (4 Psyblade Rogue, 2 Monk) had no gear, no weapons, just a Barrel they used as both a sleeping bag, and something to store loot and navigation tools in. 90% of the time Tealbounce moved and looked like a Snail. Eye stalks when needed, Mouth Stalk when needed, otherwise Teal was a sentient blue green slime.
So yes, if you want to move and look like a quadruped, there is nothing in the rules preventing it, and because the rules allow for Small sized, you can look like a 30lbs slime cat. Personally I prefer the 30lbs Snail or bouncing ball slime.