The homebrew system needs some work. Some parts work well, but many things are not intuitive. One of those things is homebrew spells at higher levels. We probably all know how to setup the Additional Points to roll those extra damage die at higher levels, but what about those other options. I put this together for my own reference and I'm going to share my findings. I'm not really going to touch on Character Level scaling since none of the other options seem to apply to Character Level.
The other choices are Spell Scale and Spell Level. If you can produce the results you want using Spell Scale, that is the simplest way. If higher level features of a spell require a little more effort to show up on the character sheet correctly, use Spell Level. Here is the format of what is displayed in the sidebar for a spell when used at higher levels:
Additional Count
"Additional DETAILS: FIXEDVALUE"
Additional Creatures
"Creatures: DETAILS"
Additional Targets
"FIXEDVALUE Additional Target*
DETAILS"
* Will add an 's' at the end of 'Target' if Fixed Value is more than 1.
Extended Area
"Extended Area: FIXEDVALUE ft."
Extended Duration
"Extended Duration: DETAILS"
Extended Range
"Extended Range: FIXEDVALUE ft."
Special
"Special: DETAILS"
As you can see some of the options don't use the Fixed Value field, so if you need to have something change at higher levels, you have to spell it out in Details at each level.
There's nothing wrong with using Spell Level for Additional Count, Additional Targets, Additional Points, or Extended Area, but like the other three options, you'll have to spell out the number used at each level. I hope this helps other homebrew creators to maximize the tools we have.
Additional Information
You can only have 20 AT HIGHER LEVELS entries. If you have complicated options that change at different levels, I suggest using Spell Level and Special to display all the changing information.
Extended Duration and Special using Spell Level example
Here's a visual on the why and how to use Spell Level as the Higher level scaling type. I've got a spell with the following:
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, the weight of the tools you can conjure increases by 5 pounds and the duration is extended for another hour for each slot level above 4th.
The level 4 spell starts out with a duration of 1 hour and in the text says you can summon an item the weighs up to 20 pounds. So we need notes for an Extended Duration and I guess Special. Additional Count could be manipulated into something like "Additional Weight in pounds: 5", but then the note on the spell tab would say "Count: 5" which is not intuitive as to it's purpose. We already need Extended Duration, so we have to use Spell Level, we may as well go all out with Special.
I went with the +Nh approach to Extended Duration because it fits better in the Spell's note
It does make the sidebar text a little less intuitive but still accurate and I didn't want to duplicate the information in the Special section.
This is a good use for the Additional Target scale effect. Using Spell Scale for the scaling type, we only need 1 entry:
Here's how it look in the notes on the Spells tab:
Here is examples of how it looks in the sidebar at different levels. Notice it adds an s to Target when FIXED VALUE calculates to more than 1:
Additional Targets does give us the ability to add something in DETAILS field of AT HIGHER LEVELS, but since we're using Spell Scale scaling this field cannot be dynamic. Basically whatever text is there at level 3, it's the same text as level 8. This particular example doesn't really need to use this field for anything so I left it out of this example.
Additional Points using Spell Scale for 2 levels Example
Ok this one is complicated enough to warrant how to do it:
So 1 is increasing every level and the 2nd damage type is increasing every two Here's how to setup two damage types and change each one at higher levels:
Here's where it would be more intuitive if the MODIFIER was before LEVEL. Even if the 2nd line was just a 1 level change, we're deciding things by the MODIFIER. Listing it 2nd is just confusing here, but that's just my two cents. Here's what it ends up looking like:
It only shows the first damage button on your character sheet. The rest of the info is in your sidebar:
Hands down the best guide I've found. After spending an entire day trying other people's explanations to fix my issues, I stumbled upon yours. Thank you!
Additional Points and Special using Spell Level Example
Just found a limitation of AT HIGHER LEVELS. You can only add 20 entries. It will not let you add a 21st entry. It won't give you an error message, it just won't add that 21st entry. I suggest utilizing Special, because then you can put any details in there you want. Here's a way to combine Additional Points and Special using Spell Level
Best way I can think to reproduce this is to use Additional Points to change the damage button, but to also have Special to display the or text.
Giving us this. Please note I changed the text of each Special entry to say ft. instead of feet and took this screenshot before the change took effect due to the server cache delay with homebrew.
And
I tried adding in an Extended Area entry for each to see how it looked. That's when I found you can only add 20 entries to AT HIGHER LEVELS.
Hi not sure if you're still keeping up with this thread but im trying to do a spell that increases the range by level (starting at 3rd) but i cant figure out how to get it to work. Its undermine armor by kobold press but im adding it for my own use
"1st lvl trasmutation
You unravel the bonds of reality that hold a suit of armor together. A target wearing armor must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or its armor softens to the consistency of candle wax, decreasing the target's AC by 2.This spell has no effect on creatures that aren't wearing armor separate from their bodies.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 1st."
Hi not sure if you're still keeping up with this thread but im trying to do a spell that increases the range by level (starting at 3rd) but i cant figure out how to get it to work. Its undermine armor by kobold press but im adding it for my own use
"1st lvl trasmutation
You unravel the bonds of reality that hold a suit of armor together. A target wearing armor must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or its armor softens to the consistency of candle wax, decreasing the target's AC by 2.This spell has no effect on creatures that aren't wearing armor separate from their bodies.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 1st."
Looking at your screenshot, you don't need the Bonus Armor Class modifier. Reading your spell that effect on AC is for the target and the modifier is for you.
In the At Higher Levels section, you won't want to use the modifier Bonus - Armor Class (+ -2). If you remove the modifier to begin with, it won't be available.
Comment #6 shows how to set up Extended Area, but you're wanting Extended Range. Is that a new Scale Effect or did I just overlook it when I started this thread?
Hi not sure if you're still keeping up with this thread but im trying to do a spell that increases the range by level (starting at 3rd) but i cant figure out how to get it to work. Its undermine armor by kobold press but im adding it for my own use
"1st lvl trasmutation
You unravel the bonds of reality that hold a suit of armor together. A target wearing armor must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or its armor softens to the consistency of candle wax, decreasing the target's AC by 2.This spell has no effect on creatures that aren't wearing armor separate from their bodies.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 1st."
You'll want to set up you At Higher Levels like this:
Testing this, it will not put a little note in blue on your spell notes but it will add the effect on the spell's sidebar
Since this uses a scalable Fixed Value, it's probably best to set this up as a Spell Scale in Higher Level Scaling Type.
I'd personally suggest Extended Area instead of Extended Range since it adds a blue note to the spell's notes on your main spell tab. Especially since reading your spell description, it sounds like a radius effect.
Im not sure if its new or not but yes im wanting Extended range. At first level its base 30ft and if im understanding the spell correctly at 2nd level its still 30ft and 3rd its 35ft and so on
Im not sure if its new or not but yes im wanting Extended range. At first level its base 30ft and if im understanding the spell correctly at 2nd level its still 30ft and 3rd its 35ft and so on
If you're using Spell Scale as your Higher Level Scaling Type and you use a 2 in Scaling Level Value, it'll increment every two levels (levels 3, 5, 7, & 9). LilVxn did say:
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 1st."
Based on that text, scaling won't start till it's upcast to level 3, but then it scales when upcast at every level after that and literal interpretation means an upcast to 3rd level adds 10ft of movement, and an additional 5ft for every level above that.
So either the spell needs to change to a level 2 spell, text needs to change to using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, or this set up does not need to use Spell Scale as the Higher Level Scaling Type and they would need to use Spell Level an entry for each level 3rd and above. I believe doing it this way does not auto-increment the Fixed Value field. I'll need to test this more to be for sure, but none of the other Spell Level scaling types auto-increment anything.
TBH, that final part of the description needs to be changed to either:
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 1st."
or change the spell to a 2nd level spell and:
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 2nd."
Im not sure if its new or not but yes im wanting Extended range. At first level its base 30ft and if im understanding the spell correctly at 2nd level its still 30ft and 3rd its 35ft and so on
If you're using Spell Scale as your Higher Level Scaling Type and you use a 2 in Scaling Level Value, it'll increment every two levels (levels 3, 5, 7, & 9). LilVxn did say:
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 1st."
Based on that text, scaling won't start till it's upcast to level 3, but then it scales when upcast at every level after that and literal interpretation means an upcast to 3rd level adds 10ft of movement, and an additional 5ft for every level above that.
So either the spell needs to change to a level 2 spell, text needs to change to using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, or this set up does not need to use Spell Scale as the Higher Level Scaling Type and they would need to use Spell Level an entry for each level 3rd and above. I believe doing it this way does not auto-increment the Fixed Value field. I'll need to test this more to be for sure, but none of the other Spell Level scaling types auto-increment anything.
TBH, that final part of the description needs to be changed to either:
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 1st."
or change the spell to a 2nd level spell and:
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 2nd."
Because the current text is a little confusing.
To do that👆, you would need to use “Level Scale” and enter the range increase for every spell level individually.
this is the spell and i copied and pasted the description https://imgur.com/a/XyxC9pp . Its kobold presses Midgard Heroes Handbook for 5th Edition book that i saw a dm using on roll20 and wanted to add it to my DDB sheet
this is the spell and i copied and pasted the description https://imgur.com/a/XyxC9pp . Its kobold presses Midgard Heroes Handbook for 5th Edition book that i saw a dm using on roll20 and wanted to add it to my DDB sheet
Do you see what we're talking about though?
1st level spell - 30ft
2nd level spell - also 30 ft
3rd level 30ft + 5ft for every spell over 1st (2nd 5ft, 3rd 5ft) so plus 10
4th level 30ft + 5ft for every spell over 1st (2nd 5ft, 3rd 5ft, 4th 5ft) so plus 15
Because the text skips over 2nd level, it makes setting this up on dndbeyond a lot more difficult. I honestly think it's a mistake by whoever wrote the text.
I guarantee you that’s a typo, they either started with a 2nd-level spell and and changed it but missed the one thing or they copy/pasted and it got missed. If it were me, I would just make it increase by 5 every level.
The homebrew system needs some work. Some parts work well, but many things are not intuitive. One of those things is homebrew spells at higher levels. We probably all know how to setup the Additional Points to roll those extra damage die at higher levels, but what about those other options. I put this together for my own reference and I'm going to share my findings. I'm not really going to touch on Character Level scaling since none of the other options seem to apply to Character Level.
The other choices are Spell Scale and Spell Level. If you can produce the results you want using Spell Scale, that is the simplest way. If higher level features of a spell require a little more effort to show up on the character sheet correctly, use Spell Level. Here is the format of what is displayed in the sidebar for a spell when used at higher levels:
As you can see some of the options don't use the Fixed Value field, so if you need to have something change at higher levels, you have to spell it out in Details at each level.
The following work well with Spell Scale:
The following need to be set up with Spell Level to display dynamic things correctly:
There's nothing wrong with using Spell Level for Additional Count, Additional Targets, Additional Points, or Extended Area, but like the other three options, you'll have to spell out the number used at each level. I hope this helps other homebrew creators to maximize the tools we have.
Additional Information
You can only have 20 AT HIGHER LEVELS entries. If you have complicated options that change at different levels, I suggest using Spell Level and Special to display all the changing information.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
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Extended Duration and Special using Spell Level example
Here's a visual on the why and how to use Spell Level as the Higher level scaling type. I've got a spell with the following:
The level 4 spell starts out with a duration of 1 hour and in the text says you can summon an item the weighs up to 20 pounds. So we need notes for an Extended Duration and I guess Special. Additional Count could be manipulated into something like "Additional Weight in pounds: 5", but then the note on the spell tab would say "Count: 5" which is not intuitive as to it's purpose. We already need Extended Duration, so we have to use Spell Level, we may as well go all out with Special.
I went with the +Nh approach to Extended Duration because it fits better in the Spell's note
It does make the sidebar text a little less intuitive but still accurate and I didn't want to duplicate the information in the Special section.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
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Additional Count using Spell Scale Example
Here's the description and scaling settings used:
This is perfect for the Additional Count scale effect. Using Spell Scale for the scaling type, we only need 1 entry:
Here's how it look in the notes on the Spells tab:
Much more impressive in the spell's sidebar description:
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
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Additional Count using Spell Scale for 2 levels example
Sometimes the higher levels do something for every two levels. Here's the source:
Another Additional Count, but we're going to scale 2 levels instead of 1
That gives us:
And
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
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Additional Targets using Spell Scale Example
Here's the description and scaling settings used:
This is a good use for the Additional Target scale effect. Using Spell Scale for the scaling type, we only need 1 entry:
Here's how it look in the notes on the Spells tab:
Here is examples of how it looks in the sidebar at different levels. Notice it adds an s to Target when FIXED VALUE calculates to more than 1:
Additional Targets does give us the ability to add something in DETAILS field of AT HIGHER LEVELS, but since we're using Spell Scale scaling this field cannot be dynamic. Basically whatever text is there at level 3, it's the same text as level 8. This particular example doesn't really need to use this field for anything so I left it out of this example.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
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Extended Area using Spell Scale Example
Here's the description and scaling settings used:
This is a good use for the Extended Area scale effect. Using Spell Scale for the scaling type, we only need 1 entry:
Here's how it look in the notes on the Spells tab:
Here is examples of how it looks in the sidebar at different levels:
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
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Additional Points using Spell Scale for 2 levels Example
Ok this one is complicated enough to warrant how to do it:
So 1 is increasing every level and the 2nd damage type is increasing every two Here's how to setup two damage types and change each one at higher levels:
Here's where it would be more intuitive if the MODIFIER was before LEVEL. Even if the 2nd line was just a 1 level change, we're deciding things by the MODIFIER. Listing it 2nd is just confusing here, but that's just my two cents. Here's what it ends up looking like:
It only shows the first damage button on your character sheet. The rest of the info is in your sidebar:
I do wish they'd add rollable buttons on the sidebar so we could roll that extra damage option. I recommend just making a custom action to create that dice roll.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
Check out my: FEATS | MAGIC ITEMS | MONSTERS | SUBCLASSES Artificer Specialist: Weaveblade
Dndbeyond images not loading A PERMANENT WORKAROUND!!! (thank you Jay_Lane)
Hands down the best guide I've found. After spending an entire day trying other people's explanations to fix my issues, I stumbled upon yours. Thank you!
Additional Points and Special using Spell Level Example
Just found a limitation of AT HIGHER LEVELS. You can only add 20 entries. It will not let you add a 21st entry. It won't give you an error message, it just won't add that 21st entry. I suggest utilizing Special, because then you can put any details in there you want. Here's a way to combine Additional Points and Special using Spell Level
Best way I can think to reproduce this is to use Additional Points to change the damage button, but to also have Special to display the or text.
Giving us this. Please note I changed the text of each Special entry to say ft. instead of feet and took this screenshot before the change took effect due to the server cache delay with homebrew.
And
I tried adding in an Extended Area entry for each to see how it looked. That's when I found you can only add 20 entries to AT HIGHER LEVELS.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
Check out my: FEATS | MAGIC ITEMS | MONSTERS | SUBCLASSES Artificer Specialist: Weaveblade
Dndbeyond images not loading A PERMANENT WORKAROUND!!! (thank you Jay_Lane)
Hi not sure if you're still keeping up with this thread but im trying to do a spell that increases the range by level (starting at 3rd) but i cant figure out how to get it to work. Its undermine armor by kobold press but im adding it for my own use
"1st lvl trasmutation
You unravel the bonds of reality that hold a suit of armor together. A target wearing armor must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or its armor softens to the consistency of candle wax, decreasing the target's AC by 2.This spell has no effect on creatures that aren't wearing armor separate from their bodies.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the range of the spell increases by 5 feet for every spell slot beyond 1st."
https://imgur.com/a/LKicc1P
Looking at your screenshot, you don't need the Bonus Armor Class modifier. Reading your spell that effect on AC is for the target and the modifier is for you.
In the At Higher Levels section, you won't want to use the modifier Bonus - Armor Class (+ -2). If you remove the modifier to begin with, it won't be available.
Comment #6 shows how to set up Extended Area, but you're wanting Extended Range. Is that a new Scale Effect or did I just overlook it when I started this thread?
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
Check out my: FEATS | MAGIC ITEMS | MONSTERS | SUBCLASSES Artificer Specialist: Weaveblade
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Extended Range using Spell Scale example
You'll want to set up you At Higher Levels like this:
Testing this, it will not put a little note in blue on your spell notes but it will add the effect on the spell's sidebar
Since this uses a scalable Fixed Value, it's probably best to set this up as a Spell Scale in Higher Level Scaling Type.
I'd personally suggest Extended Area instead of Extended Range since it adds a blue note to the spell's notes on your main spell tab. Especially since reading your spell description, it sounds like a radius effect.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
Check out my: FEATS | MAGIC ITEMS | MONSTERS | SUBCLASSES Artificer Specialist: Weaveblade
Dndbeyond images not loading A PERMANENT WORKAROUND!!! (thank you Jay_Lane)
Im not sure if its new or not but yes im wanting Extended range. At first level its base 30ft and if im understanding the spell correctly at 2nd level its still 30ft and 3rd its 35ft and so on
edit - oh just saw the walkthrough thank you!!
Then you want to set it up like this:
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If you're using Spell Scale as your Higher Level Scaling Type and you use a 2 in Scaling Level Value, it'll increment every two levels (levels 3, 5, 7, & 9). LilVxn did say:
Based on that text, scaling won't start till it's upcast to level 3, but then it scales when upcast at every level after that and literal interpretation means an upcast to 3rd level adds 10ft of movement, and an additional 5ft for every level above that.
So either the spell needs to change to a level 2 spell, text needs to change to using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, or this set up does not need to use Spell Scale as the Higher Level Scaling Type and they would need to use Spell Level an entry for each level 3rd and above. I believe doing it this way does not auto-increment the Fixed Value field. I'll need to test this more to be for sure, but none of the other Spell Level scaling types auto-increment anything.
TBH, that final part of the description needs to be changed to either:
or change the spell to a 2nd level spell and:
Because the current text is a little confusing.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
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Ahh, I misunderstood just going off of this:
What spell?
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To do that👆, you would need to use “Level Scale” and enter the range increase for every spell level individually.
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this is the spell and i copied and pasted the description https://imgur.com/a/XyxC9pp . Its kobold presses Midgard Heroes Handbook for 5th Edition book that i saw a dm using on roll20 and wanted to add it to my DDB sheet
Do you see what we're talking about though?
Because the text skips over 2nd level, it makes setting this up on dndbeyond a lot more difficult. I honestly think it's a mistake by whoever wrote the text.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
Check out my: FEATS | MAGIC ITEMS | MONSTERS | SUBCLASSES Artificer Specialist: Weaveblade
Dndbeyond images not loading A PERMANENT WORKAROUND!!! (thank you Jay_Lane)
I guarantee you that’s a typo, they either started with a 2nd-level spell and and changed it but missed the one thing or they copy/pasted and it got missed. If it were me, I would just make it increase by 5 every level.
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