Currently spit balling ideas on how to remove a large army. So any ideas on how to word the wish spell are welcome. It will be DM influenced of course, but im trying to come up with some sort of base idea for how to word the wish.
Heres the general info,
I am a duergar that has turned into a leader of the nine hells. I am about to face off against Asmodeus, Mephisto, and Zariel as well as an army of 100,000. We have a wish spell and counter measures for how to attempt to fight the three commanders. But the army we are facing off against outnumbers us 2:1 and fully in Asmodeus's favor. How would you word a wish spell to avoid a "monkeys paw" situation to remove the entire 100,000 army permanently from the battlefield?
I will be completely honest, I think this thread is in rather bad taste - part of the fun of Wish is trying to come up with the words yourself and seeing how the DM responds to your chosen language. Trying to crowdsource a “right” answer from folks outside the party borders on cheating, and I would probably be incredibly upset if I learned any of my players tried to do that.
It also is worth noting that a reasonably clever DM can twist any Wish into a Monkey Paw situation, no matter how iron clad you think it might be.
All that said, I wouldn’t want to be completely unhelpful - I am going to put some suggestions in a spoiler block below. I could not quite bring myself to provide exact wording, since that feels a bit too much like stepping into your campaign at the expense of your DM, but there are some ideas of the kinds of things you could ask for.
I strongly encourage you to NOT open the spoiler and figure things out yourself, but they are there if my proselytising failed in its objective.
Wish for the entire army to be Petrified - you run the risk of a DM making them into stone monsters and the situation becoming much worse, but also have a strong chance the DM might apply the Petrified condition to everyone, using the rules definition rather than a colloquial definition.
Wish for them to be transported to a specific plane that you do not like, with some restriction on their being able to return.
Wish for them to be incapable of directly or indirectly damaging other creatures.
Wish for them to defect to your side.
I can think of a half dozen ways to twist each of those, but, who knows, maybe your DM will not.
This I exactly the kind of situation where I'd be looking to twist the heck out of your Wish - unless I setup the situation specifically to give you reason to cast it. I guess, try some other solution because Wish is, 95% certain, going to blow up in your face.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I appreciate all of your answers, this was more of an intention to get some ideas rolling. Of course i would have to twist anything i decided on to the campaign and situation. So thats why i was asking for some help. But i understand the unwillingness as a DM myself.
But you don't have to post a response if you disagree with my methods of idea generation. Was just a place to see what people were thinking in a situation like this to give me more inspiration.
in my opinion I wouldn't allow a single wish spell being able to deal with 100k fiends. even 10 of them.... if it was that easy everyone would be weaponizing wishes. 9th level wishes have limits.
As a Dm I would never have let a character get to this point in the first place. You are running with more power than a typical King has. Your running a larger army then several kingdoms would ever field at once.
As an enemy of yours I would be sending waves of assassins after you to start off with. If just one works I am miles ahead in the battle. All of the beings your fighting would have used some type of divination to find out all about you long ago and sent assassins after you then.
Honestly, you can't really game the Wish spell via exact words. The DM explicitly has broad fiat to twist the effects or simply declare it an impossible wish in the service of the story, so trying to lawyer up super long Wish to completely shut down a plot point can come across as disrespectful to both the DM and other players. Honestly, I'd keep the spell in your pocket for a critical moment rather than try to end run the situation from the outset.
Personally, I would wish for Asmodeus, Mephisto, and Zariel to take it easy on me once they finish picking off all of my friends around me.... But that's just me.
The trick isn't to get rid of all the devils, while difficult, that's doable. The trick is getting rid of them in a way that can't be undone by a spell of a similar power level on the opposite side. Asmodeus is on the level of a deity. Most anything that could be accomplished through Divine Intervention should also be something he's capable of doing.
The trick isn't to get rid of all the devils, while difficult, that's doable. The trick is getting rid of them in a way that can't be undone by a spell of a similar power level on the opposite side. Asmodeus is on the level of a deity. Most anything that could be accomplished through Divine Intervention should also be something he's capable of doing.
Worse, he's a deity on his home plane. That gives him considerably more options than what Divine Intervention is limited to.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Magic'ing the enemy force away is propably too ambitious. More likely, you could get away with something that would even the odds. If I were the GM, I might allow a Wish to bless my entire force - or something on that order. Or grant everyone of my troops True Strike on their first attack.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
What about wishing that all my forces who are sworn to me, can do radiant damage? Its not overpowered and allows better damage on the enemy army?
Again, there is no such thing as an ironclad wish. There are multiple points of failure which could turn your language here into a disaster - I thought of three before I finished reading the post.
But your DM might be different - they might think as you do, that this is a relatively mundane mechanism for levelling the playing field; or they might do something which would backfire.
This is precisely why you cannot crowdsource a wish - we do not know your DM and the rules explicitly put the effect of Wish in the DM’s hands. No amount of advice from strangers can eclipse your personal judgment based upon your past interactions with your DM.
As a DM, depending on my mood, I might just let them wish the army away, give them the easy win, and start a new campaign. I am not looking to screw my players because they have found ultimate power, though I might if I felt like it would serve the story. But to me, if the players are looking for an easy out, I might wonder if they weren't really interested in the story I had presented. On the other hand, maybe I had not done a good enough job closing loopholes in the plot. I would at the very least need to take time to consider these things if my players wanted to wish their way to the end.
"I wish for a conference call with the Archdevils" Or alternatively, cut deals strategically with individual Archdevils.
And thus solve it, as things are meant to be solved in Hell. With diplomacy. To quote a rather famous song, 'Use all your well learned politics, lest (they) lay your soul to waste'
The line is actually "Use all your well-learned politesse", which is kind of an archaic word for etiquette or decorum
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
wish :all harm upon everyone, but asmodeus, mephisto,zariel, all demons of the whorld and everyone who is with them, stops, and all harm blocked by this will be brought upon those who can receive it, this will last on every no harm receivers until they or you mark them as your enemies, and on the receiving until you mark them as your allies, this effect returns when the status of the affected/unaffected in terms of alliance and enemies becomes equal to when this wish was spoken.
with this wish you protect your army and destroy those against you, including the demons, since they are nemesises of the devils
Figured i would post what we went with, now it did not work out as i wanted. But here is the wish:
"I wish for a weapon that i can use to permanently kill asmodeus in a single blow to appear in my hand right now and will stay until asmodeus is permanently dead"
The DM cooked up some stuff and now i have an automaton from the age of arcanium that told me it would kill him but in exchange it would take the nine hells for itself. So this fully wont get worse. Appreciate everyones ideas, especially the true strike comment, as we almost went with the fire vulnerability since i had a contract with a great red wyrm. But todays the day, wish me luck in my death!
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Hello everyone,
Currently spit balling ideas on how to remove a large army. So any ideas on how to word the wish spell are welcome. It will be DM influenced of course, but im trying to come up with some sort of base idea for how to word the wish.
Heres the general info,
I am a duergar that has turned into a leader of the nine hells. I am about to face off against Asmodeus, Mephisto, and Zariel as well as an army of 100,000. We have a wish spell and counter measures for how to attempt to fight the three commanders. But the army we are facing off against outnumbers us 2:1 and fully in Asmodeus's favor. How would you word a wish spell to avoid a "monkeys paw" situation to remove the entire 100,000 army permanently from the battlefield?
-
edit - having read Caerwyn's post below, I found myself agreeing, so removed my answers.
Go have the fun of wording that wish yourself!
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I will be completely honest, I think this thread is in rather bad taste - part of the fun of Wish is trying to come up with the words yourself and seeing how the DM responds to your chosen language. Trying to crowdsource a “right” answer from folks outside the party borders on cheating, and I would probably be incredibly upset if I learned any of my players tried to do that.
It also is worth noting that a reasonably clever DM can twist any Wish into a Monkey Paw situation, no matter how iron clad you think it might be.
All that said, I wouldn’t want to be completely unhelpful - I am going to put some suggestions in a spoiler block below. I could not quite bring myself to provide exact wording, since that feels a bit too much like stepping into your campaign at the expense of your DM, but there are some ideas of the kinds of things you could ask for.
I strongly encourage you to NOT open the spoiler and figure things out yourself, but they are there if my proselytising failed in its objective.
Wish for the entire army to be Petrified - you run the risk of a DM making them into stone monsters and the situation becoming much worse, but also have a strong chance the DM might apply the Petrified condition to everyone, using the rules definition rather than a colloquial definition.
Wish for them to be transported to a specific plane that you do not like, with some restriction on their being able to return.
Wish for them to be incapable of directly or indirectly damaging other creatures.
Wish for them to defect to your side.
I can think of a half dozen ways to twist each of those, but, who knows, maybe your DM will not.
This I exactly the kind of situation where I'd be looking to twist the heck out of your Wish - unless I setup the situation specifically to give you reason to cast it. I guess, try some other solution because Wish is, 95% certain, going to blow up in your face.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I appreciate all of your answers, this was more of an intention to get some ideas rolling. Of course i would have to twist anything i decided on to the campaign and situation. So thats why i was asking for some help. But i understand the unwillingness as a DM myself.
But you don't have to post a response if you disagree with my methods of idea generation. Was just a place to see what people were thinking in a situation like this to give me more inspiration.
Thank you all!
in my opinion I wouldn't allow a single wish spell being able to deal with 100k fiends. even 10 of them.... if it was that easy everyone would be weaponizing wishes. 9th level wishes have limits.
As a Dm I would never have let a character get to this point in the first place.
You are running with more power than a typical King has. Your running a larger army then several kingdoms would ever field at once.
As an enemy of yours I would be sending waves of assassins after you to start off with. If just one works I am miles ahead in the battle.
All of the beings your fighting would have used some type of divination to find out all about you long ago and sent assassins after you then.
Rival a gods power at your own peril.
I'd wish for the devils to be transformed into demons...
Honestly, you can't really game the Wish spell via exact words. The DM explicitly has broad fiat to twist the effects or simply declare it an impossible wish in the service of the story, so trying to lawyer up super long Wish to completely shut down a plot point can come across as disrespectful to both the DM and other players. Honestly, I'd keep the spell in your pocket for a critical moment rather than try to end run the situation from the outset.
I wish I was as powerful as a Genie!!!!!!
Poof!!!! Your as powerful as a Genie, in fact your a Genie. Have a nice eternity in that lamp.
Personally, I would wish for Asmodeus, Mephisto, and Zariel to take it easy on me once they finish picking off all of my friends around me.... But that's just me.
The trick isn't to get rid of all the devils, while difficult, that's doable. The trick is getting rid of them in a way that can't be undone by a spell of a similar power level on the opposite side. Asmodeus is on the level of a deity. Most anything that could be accomplished through Divine Intervention should also be something he's capable of doing.
Worse, he's a deity on his home plane. That gives him considerably more options than what Divine Intervention is limited to.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Magic'ing the enemy force away is propably too ambitious. More likely, you could get away with something that would even the odds. If I were the GM, I might allow a Wish to bless my entire force - or something on that order. Or grant everyone of my troops True Strike on their first attack.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
What about wishing that all my forces who are sworn to me, can do radiant damage? Its not overpowered and allows better damage on the enemy army?
Again, there is no such thing as an ironclad wish. There are multiple points of failure which could turn your language here into a disaster - I thought of three before I finished reading the post.
But your DM might be different - they might think as you do, that this is a relatively mundane mechanism for levelling the playing field; or they might do something which would backfire.
This is precisely why you cannot crowdsource a wish - we do not know your DM and the rules explicitly put the effect of Wish in the DM’s hands. No amount of advice from strangers can eclipse your personal judgment based upon your past interactions with your DM.
As a DM, depending on my mood, I might just let them wish the army away, give them the easy win, and start a new campaign. I am not looking to screw my players because they have found ultimate power, though I might if I felt like it would serve the story. But to me, if the players are looking for an easy out, I might wonder if they weren't really interested in the story I had presented. On the other hand, maybe I had not done a good enough job closing loopholes in the plot. I would at the very least need to take time to consider these things if my players wanted to wish their way to the end.
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The line is actually "Use all your well-learned politesse", which is kind of an archaic word for etiquette or decorum
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
wish :all harm upon everyone, but asmodeus, mephisto,zariel, all demons of the whorld and everyone who is with them, stops, and all harm blocked by this will be brought upon those who can receive it, this will last on every no harm receivers until they or you mark them as your enemies, and on the receiving until you mark them as your allies, this effect returns when the status of the affected/unaffected in terms of alliance and enemies becomes equal to when this wish was spoken.
with this wish you protect your army and destroy those against you, including the demons, since they are nemesises of the devils
Figured i would post what we went with, now it did not work out as i wanted. But here is the wish:
"I wish for a weapon that i can use to permanently kill asmodeus in a single blow to appear in my hand right now and will stay until asmodeus is permanently dead"
The DM cooked up some stuff and now i have an automaton from the age of arcanium that told me it would kill him but in exchange it would take the nine hells for itself. So this fully wont get worse. Appreciate everyones ideas, especially the true strike comment, as we almost went with the fire vulnerability since i had a contract with a great red wyrm. But todays the day, wish me luck in my death!