It was just announced that WoTC is partnering with the Foundry VTT. Interesting news indeed considering that they are developing their own VTT. Are there any other plans in the works for partnering with other VTTs?
They already have similar partnerships with Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds, so it's no big deal. More choice for consumers, more licensing revenue streams for WotC, everybody wins.
Oddly enough I sorta thought this was bigger news than the horsehockey tencent story -- and more exciting, to boot.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I was looking at the DnD Beyond Maps feature and trying to figure out why this work is being done at DnD Beyond. Our gaming groups have been using AboveVTT for a few years now, and it is a very user-friendly tool that has great integration with DnD Beyond. Why invest all the time and resources to create DnD Beyond Maps, when it isn't even close to a good as an existing solution?
I was looking at the DnD Beyond Maps feature and trying to figure out why this work is being done at DnD Beyond. Our gaming groups have been using AboveVTT for a few years now, and it is a very user-friendly tool that has great integration with DnD Beyond. Why invest all the time and resources to create DnD Beyond Maps, when it isn't even close to a good as an existing solution?
Because AboveVTT isn't developed or owned by dndbeyond and relies on a collection of people to maintain outside of the scope of dndbeyond. I agree It's a great tool with awesome integration, but at the end of the day it's not in dndbeyond's hands, it's in some dude's (or dudette's).
Should dndbeyond look at hiring or contracting some of AboveVTT's developers? Possibly. Would they do that after laying off a bunch of people a week before Christmas last year?
I was looking at the DnD Beyond Maps feature and trying to figure out why this work is being done at DnD Beyond. Our gaming groups have been using AboveVTT for a few years now, and it is a very user-friendly tool that has great integration with DnD Beyond. Why invest all the time and resources to create DnD Beyond Maps, when it isn't even close to a good as an existing solution?
Because AboveVTT isn't developed or owned by dndbeyond and relies on a collection of people to maintain outside of the scope of dndbeyond. I agree It's a great tool with awesome integration, but at the end of the day it's not in dndbeyond's hands, it's in some dude's (or dudette's).
Should dndbeyond look at hiring or contracting some of AboveVTT's developers? Possibly. Would they do that after laying off a bunch of people a week before Christmas last year?
100% this - no guaranteed product with AboveVTT from their view. Changes they make can break it and no guarantee it'll get fixed in a timely manner - leading to a worse overall user experience and risk people going elsewhere. I do think partnering with foundry is really good for them and us as users as it's probably the most customizable/immersive experience available among 2d VTTs. Although it takes quite a bit of maintenance/setup outside the game.
Hopefully DDB eventually catches up to other VTTs and red tape doesn't hold them back too much. I doubt they hire anyone but heck I'd pay them for the ability to fix some stuff on the site/improve features if they let me lol.
100% this - no guaranteed product with AboveVTT from their view. Changes they make can break it and no guarantee it'll get fixed in a timely manner - leading to a worse overall user experience and risk people going elsewhere. I do think partnering with foundry is really good for them and us as users as it's probably the most customizable/immersive experience available among 2d VTTs. Although it takes quite a bit of maintenance/setup outside the game.
Hopefully DDB eventually catches up to other VTTs and red tape doesn't hold them back too much. I doubt they hire anyone but heck I'd pay them for the ability to fix some stuff on the site/improve features if they let me lol.
I'm so glad the partnership with Foundry was put into place, as I've become very attached to it and have invested a lot of time and energy into it. Given that WotC isn't always particularly communicative about their current work and/or future plans, I was worried that barriers, however unintentional, might arise. I'm relieved to know that two platforms I rely on heavily won't end up sundered.
Folks - I know that DnD Beyond doesn't own AboveVTT. My question was more about why WoTC / DnD Beyond spent time and recourses creating a subpar tool when there are others are already doing it well (i.e. AboveVTT and Foundry). Personally, I love AboveVTT because it is so user friendly. I am not impressed with Maps.
Folks - I know that DnD Beyond doesn't own AboveVTT. My question was more about why WoTC / DnD Beyond spent time and recourses creating a subpar tool when there are others are already doing it well (i.e. AboveVTT and Foundry). Personally, I love AboveVTT because it is so user friendly. I am not impressed with Maps.
It seems a touch pre-emptive to call Maps "subpar" when it's still in alpha and has only been out a few months. If you're comparing an alpha app released five months ago to one released three years ago that's currently at version 1.9, it kinda stands to reason the latter will be further along the development cycle than the former.
The same goes for comparisons to Foundry, which released two years before AboveVTT.
Yeah, DDB may be late to the party but it looks like they're doing things the 'correct' way. In the sense that it's much more a standard VTT in the way it renders and should have much better performance as things get added (in comparison to AboveVTT).
I.e. if they decide to add in real time dynamic lighting it will be possible without killing systems and should work on a lot more machines smoothly. Their ability to store more data (ie fog data as images, uploaded images etc) will make some features possible that otherwise aren't.
I recognize there are some advantages to self hosting being an option, for example I have 100gb of stuff I use for dnd VTTs and not all of it would be able to be imported into DDB at it's current GB limit. But I do think it all being a part of one service outweighs those advantages in most cases.
Maps will have a better ability to integrate with DDBs different tools and options since it's internal. As much as is integrated there's still lots AboveVTT can't/won't ever have access to. Maps will ideally/hopefully not need to be rushed to be fixed after a big DDB update. Although DDB updates haven't broken AboveVTT in a long time it could happen whenever and I don't think DDB should even consider it when making improvements to the site.
I think more VTT partnerships is good and Maps is a good thing to develop. People can and should choose the tool that best suits their group/table/DM style. Overall more options is always good and I think the above reasons are good enough that AboveVTT shouldn't be the only VTT option to use directly on DDBs site. Obviously I don't know if working on Maps is actually slowing other things down but I hope that's not the case and a lot of development is happening behind the scenes or going towards the new 'one dnd' (or whatever its name ends up being).
Folks - I know that DnD Beyond doesn't own AboveVTT. My question was more about why WoTC / DnD Beyond spent time and recourses creating a subpar tool when there are others are already doing it well (i.e. AboveVTT and Foundry). Personally, I love AboveVTT because it is so user friendly. I am not impressed with Maps.
I guess it is for players like me.
If they stopped development on the maps tool right now I would still get a ton of use from it, I already have a subscription here to share content and have no desire to buy the same content on another site digitally, nor do I need or want all of the features of a VTT. I mostly play published adventures and the alpha maps tool is markedly better than the other tools I have tried or bought previously for my use case.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Folks - I know that DnD Beyond doesn't own AboveVTT. My question was more about why WoTC / DnD Beyond spent time and recourses creating a subpar tool when there are others are already doing it well (i.e. AboveVTT and Foundry).
As others have said, it's still in development and controlling your own tools is better than relying on a third party.
My theory is that Maps is partly to let them develop and test the back-end that will also be used for the upcoming fancy 3D VTT.
Folks - I know that DnD Beyond doesn't own AboveVTT. My question was more about why WoTC / DnD Beyond spent time and recourses creating a subpar tool when there are others are already doing it well (i.e. AboveVTT and Foundry). Personally, I love AboveVTT because it is so user friendly. I am not impressed with Maps.
Subpar interesting choice of words given that AboveVTT is Browser extension, yeah it integrates into D&D Beyond ,but, it does not have dedicated storage for tokens or maps it's all held in the browser 's cache which if you have to clear it for any reason you just lost your map and the tokens on it and have to rebuild. The 2d map function comes with integrated storage which is whole orders of magnitude better and it provides them with the place to build into the 3d VTT.
Folks - I know that DnD Beyond doesn't own AboveVTT. My question was more about why WoTC / DnD Beyond spent time and recourses creating a subpar tool when there are others are already doing it well (i.e. AboveVTT and Foundry). Personally, I love AboveVTT because it is so user friendly. I am not impressed with Maps.
Subpar interesting choice of words given that AboveVTT is Browser extension, yeah it integrates into D&D Beyond ,but, it does not have dedicated storage for tokens or maps it's all held in the browser 's cache which if you have to clear it for any reason you just lost your map and the tokens on it and have to rebuild. The 2d map function comes with integrated storage which is whole orders of magnitude better and it provides them with the place to build into the 3d VTT.
It's not all held in the browsers storage and hasn't been for quite some time (~2 years). All scene data is stored on AboveVTTs server. You do need to upload the images else where or have your own hosting still ofc. Maps from books released here though are all stored on DDBs server and don't need to be rehosted. You'll never lose scene maps or anything already placed on scenes due to the cache being cleared.
Yes tokens, not the ones placed on scenes already but in the side panel, are stored in the cache but can easily be backed up and reimported. This is only for custom tokens not DDB homebrew monsters which are stored on DDBs server and never disappear either (same as Maps).
It is of course limited due to being a browser extension, limited funds for the server (offering full integrated data storage isn't viable) and only being worked on by 1 unpaid volunteer in their free time (me lol and I'm most certainly not a dev by trade irl this is a hobby for me). The project owner still has patreon funds to keep the server up and will forward versions to the browser extension stores but hasn't worked on it for ~a couple years.
So Maps should be able to over take it easily (not necessarily quickly) and I very much hope it does.
For the most part I agree though integrated storage is generally better when enough space is given. I don't think DDB has that amount of space for me personally but for the vast majority of people it does.
How much space do you need? the Master tier gives you 10gb of space, Roll20 Free Tier gives 100 MB, Mid-Tier gives 3gb , Top Tier gives 8gb. Owlbear Rodeo Free Tier gives 200MB, Mid Tier 5 gb, TopTier 10gb, Molten hosting Low Tier gives 5gb, Mid Tier 10gb and Top Tier is 20 GB.
How much space do you need? the Master tier gives you 10gb of space, Roll20 Free Tier gives 100 MB, Mid-Tier gives 3gb , Top Tier gives 8gb. Owlbear Rodeo Free Tier gives 200MB, Mid Tier 5 gb, TopTier 10gb, Molten hosting Low Tier gives 5gb, Mid Tier 10gb and Top Tier is 20 GB.
I have 131GB in my self hosted folder atm. I run a 'website' using windows IIS that I turn on when I play dnd with AboveVTT - it's a similar setup to self hosting foundry which I used to do but got tried of managing mods/things being dropped by their creators/importing stuff over from dndbeyond for official modules. It only costs me the price of a domain name (a penny the first year and 10-20 bucks a year after that). I still think foundry's great but I think most VTTs are really good for their target audience - I try most I hear about at least a few times. Maps isn't bad either just new and so far I'm liking how they've got its structure setup.
Mind you this includes video maps, audio, animated tokens, a big selection of objects/map creation assets that are larger file formats. I prefer VTTs where I can self host data for this reason. The 131GB doesn't include everything I've ever used or have access to either so it's somewhat curated lol.
I do think I'm the super minority but 10+ years of collecting digital assets and subscribing to patreons/buying pieces here and there adds up. I dislike having to remove stuff to add other stuff - it's much easier to download to a folder on my computer and leave it there lol. I'm that guy that would have a room or two filled with minis, terrain etc if I played IRL basically lol. Also used to play dnd upwards of 8 hours a day with friends for a long time because I'm insane and we had a lot fewer IRL responsibilities.
It was just announced that WoTC is partnering with the Foundry VTT. Interesting news indeed considering that they are developing their own VTT. Are there any other plans in the works for partnering with other VTTs?
They already have similar partnerships with Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds, so it's no big deal. More choice for consumers, more licensing revenue streams for WotC, everybody wins.
Oddly enough I sorta thought this was bigger news than the horsehockey tencent story -- and more exciting, to boot.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I was looking at the DnD Beyond Maps feature and trying to figure out why this work is being done at DnD Beyond. Our gaming groups have been using AboveVTT for a few years now, and it is a very user-friendly tool that has great integration with DnD Beyond. Why invest all the time and resources to create DnD Beyond Maps, when it isn't even close to a good as an existing solution?
Because AboveVTT isn't developed or owned by dndbeyond and relies on a collection of people to maintain outside of the scope of dndbeyond. I agree It's a great tool with awesome integration, but at the end of the day it's not in dndbeyond's hands, it's in some dude's (or dudette's).
Should dndbeyond look at hiring or contracting some of AboveVTT's developers? Possibly. Would they do that after laying off a bunch of people a week before Christmas last year?
How to: Replace DEX in AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
My: FEATS | MAGIC ITEMS | MONSTERS | SUBCLASSES Artificer Specialist: Weaveblade
Dndbeyond images not loading WORKAROUND FIXED!!! (TY Jay_Lane for original instructions)
100% this - no guaranteed product with AboveVTT from their view. Changes they make can break it and no guarantee it'll get fixed in a timely manner - leading to a worse overall user experience and risk people going elsewhere. I do think partnering with foundry is really good for them and us as users as it's probably the most customizable/immersive experience available among 2d VTTs. Although it takes quite a bit of maintenance/setup outside the game.
Hopefully DDB eventually catches up to other VTTs and red tape doesn't hold them back too much. I doubt they hire anyone but heck I'd pay them for the ability to fix some stuff on the site/improve features if they let me lol.
I'd pay you to fix their stuff too.
How to: Replace DEX in AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
My: FEATS | MAGIC ITEMS | MONSTERS | SUBCLASSES Artificer Specialist: Weaveblade
Dndbeyond images not loading WORKAROUND FIXED!!! (TY Jay_Lane for original instructions)
I'm so glad the partnership with Foundry was put into place, as I've become very attached to it and have invested a lot of time and energy into it. Given that WotC isn't always particularly communicative about their current work and/or future plans, I was worried that barriers, however unintentional, might arise. I'm relieved to know that two platforms I rely on heavily won't end up sundered.
Folks - I know that DnD Beyond doesn't own AboveVTT. My question was more about why WoTC / DnD Beyond spent time and recourses creating a subpar tool when there are others are already doing it well (i.e. AboveVTT and Foundry). Personally, I love AboveVTT because it is so user friendly. I am not impressed with Maps.
It seems a touch pre-emptive to call Maps "subpar" when it's still in alpha and has only been out a few months. If you're comparing an alpha app released five months ago to one released three years ago that's currently at version 1.9, it kinda stands to reason the latter will be further along the development cycle than the former.
The same goes for comparisons to Foundry, which released two years before AboveVTT.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Yeah, DDB may be late to the party but it looks like they're doing things the 'correct' way. In the sense that it's much more a standard VTT in the way it renders and should have much better performance as things get added (in comparison to AboveVTT).
I.e. if they decide to add in real time dynamic lighting it will be possible without killing systems and should work on a lot more machines smoothly. Their ability to store more data (ie fog data as images, uploaded images etc) will make some features possible that otherwise aren't.
I recognize there are some advantages to self hosting being an option, for example I have 100gb of stuff I use for dnd VTTs and not all of it would be able to be imported into DDB at it's current GB limit. But I do think it all being a part of one service outweighs those advantages in most cases.
Maps will have a better ability to integrate with DDBs different tools and options since it's internal. As much as is integrated there's still lots AboveVTT can't/won't ever have access to. Maps will ideally/hopefully not need to be rushed to be fixed after a big DDB update. Although DDB updates haven't broken AboveVTT in a long time it could happen whenever and I don't think DDB should even consider it when making improvements to the site.
I think more VTT partnerships is good and Maps is a good thing to develop. People can and should choose the tool that best suits their group/table/DM style. Overall more options is always good and I think the above reasons are good enough that AboveVTT shouldn't be the only VTT option to use directly on DDBs site. Obviously I don't know if working on Maps is actually slowing other things down but I hope that's not the case and a lot of development is happening behind the scenes or going towards the new 'one dnd' (or whatever its name ends up being).
I guess it is for players like me.
If they stopped development on the maps tool right now I would still get a ton of use from it, I already have a subscription here to share content and have no desire to buy the same content on another site digitally, nor do I need or want all of the features of a VTT. I mostly play published adventures and the alpha maps tool is markedly better than the other tools I have tried or bought previously for my use case.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
As others have said, it's still in development and controlling your own tools is better than relying on a third party.
My theory is that Maps is partly to let them develop and test the back-end that will also be used for the upcoming fancy 3D VTT.
Subpar interesting choice of words given that AboveVTT is Browser extension, yeah it integrates into D&D Beyond ,but, it does not have dedicated storage for tokens or maps it's all held in the browser 's cache which if you have to clear it for any reason you just lost your map and the tokens on it and have to rebuild. The 2d map function comes with integrated storage which is whole orders of magnitude better and it provides them with the place to build into the 3d VTT.
It's not all held in the browsers storage and hasn't been for quite some time (~2 years). All scene data is stored on AboveVTTs server. You do need to upload the images else where or have your own hosting still ofc. Maps from books released here though are all stored on DDBs server and don't need to be rehosted. You'll never lose scene maps or anything already placed on scenes due to the cache being cleared.
Yes tokens, not the ones placed on scenes already but in the side panel, are stored in the cache but can easily be backed up and reimported. This is only for custom tokens not DDB homebrew monsters which are stored on DDBs server and never disappear either (same as Maps).
It is of course limited due to being a browser extension, limited funds for the server (offering full integrated data storage isn't viable) and only being worked on by 1 unpaid volunteer in their free time (me lol and I'm most certainly not a dev by trade irl this is a hobby for me). The project owner still has patreon funds to keep the server up and will forward versions to the browser extension stores but hasn't worked on it for ~a couple years.
So Maps should be able to over take it easily (not necessarily quickly) and I very much hope it does.
For the most part I agree though integrated storage is generally better when enough space is given. I don't think DDB has that amount of space for me personally but for the vast majority of people it does.
How much space do you need? the Master tier gives you 10gb of space, Roll20 Free Tier gives 100 MB, Mid-Tier gives 3gb , Top Tier gives 8gb. Owlbear Rodeo Free Tier gives 200MB, Mid Tier 5 gb, TopTier 10gb, Molten hosting Low Tier gives 5gb, Mid Tier 10gb and Top Tier is 20 GB.
I have 131GB in my self hosted folder atm. I run a 'website' using windows IIS that I turn on when I play dnd with AboveVTT - it's a similar setup to self hosting foundry which I used to do but got tried of managing mods/things being dropped by their creators/importing stuff over from dndbeyond for official modules. It only costs me the price of a domain name (a penny the first year and 10-20 bucks a year after that). I still think foundry's great but I think most VTTs are really good for their target audience - I try most I hear about at least a few times. Maps isn't bad either just new and so far I'm liking how they've got its structure setup.
Mind you this includes video maps, audio, animated tokens, a big selection of objects/map creation assets that are larger file formats. I prefer VTTs where I can self host data for this reason. The 131GB doesn't include everything I've ever used or have access to either so it's somewhat curated lol.
I do think I'm the super minority but 10+ years of collecting digital assets and subscribing to patreons/buying pieces here and there adds up. I dislike having to remove stuff to add other stuff - it's much easier to download to a folder on my computer and leave it there lol. I'm that guy that would have a room or two filled with minis, terrain etc if I played IRL basically lol. Also used to play dnd upwards of 8 hours a day with friends for a long time because I'm insane and we had a lot fewer IRL responsibilities.