I actually asked this because I am re-watching rings of power and I forgot how dumb the elves are. Our world will end unless we have the pretty stone from the Dwarves. And then they act like the Dwarves are the greedy ones. Psh.
There's the problem. First: D&D is heavily influenced by Tolkien but it isn't Tolkien. Second: Rings of Power just wasn't very well-written.
About "Rings of Power", that series was derived from Tolkien's notes and private letters but it was written without Tolkien's thought process. Were you aware that Tolkien went through 13 or 14 rough drafts before he crafted the version of "Fellowship of the Ring" with which he felt comfortable? He went through a similar numbers of rough drafts for "The Two Towers" and "The Return of the King". All of these rough drafts are preserved in a reserved room at Oxford University. "Rings of Power" probably did not go through such a lengthy thought and review process, which is probably why it feels that something is lacking.
That having been said, it will be interesting to see how well Stephen Colbert's additional chapter to "Fellowship of the Ring" fits into the overall story arc. Colbert is a Tolkien scholar and an excellent writer but has he acquired the Tolkien "magic touch"? We will have to wait and see.
Imma be honest, their term for other elves "Tel'Quessir" meaning "the people" and their terms for non-elves being "N'Tel'Quessir" or "Not the people" comes off a little too close to coming as Elves=people and Non-Elves=Not people for my licking sometimes. Sounds very ick.
I mean, you're kinda reaching for that interpretation, imo. Or at least reaching to pigeonhole it with that single particular subtext. It's a basic "us" and "them", which is pretty much how any early culture will define itself in relation to other groups. On its own, they're not anymore loaded than "human" and "nonhuman". Obviously they can become used as superlative and pejorative in a particular setting/narrative, but I would say the literal translations is just linguistics.
I'm no Tolkien expert but, when looking at the Player's Handbook regarding Character Creation, there are chapters that allow me to choose my Alignment (of which 'Good' is an option) and Species (of which Elf is an option).
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I'm not sure how someone looks at elves in any of the major D&D settings and concludes they're definitionally evil in any of the editions.
Like the Drow? Sure, a lot of them were putz across the history of most of the editions but that's been mostly abandoned by the writers particularly in the current edition where alignment is barely even a thing.
I'm not sure how someone looks at elves in any of the major D&D settings and concludes they're definitionally evil in any of the editions.
Like the Drow? Sure, a lot of them were putz across the history of most of the editions but that's been mostly abandoned by the writers particularly in the current edition where alignment is barely even a thing.
Maybe the OP is thinking of Elder Scrolls?
Krynn elves were a bit jerkish pre-Cataclysm, but then so were the humans. Nobody was winning Species of the Year.
I'm not sure how someone looks at elves in any of the major D&D settings and concludes they're definitionally evil in any of the editions.
Like the Drow? Sure, a lot of them were putz across the history of most of the editions but that's been mostly abandoned by the writers particularly in the current edition where alignment is barely even a thing.
Maybe the OP is thinking of Elder Scrolls?
Krynn elves were a bit jerkish pre-Cataclysm, but then so were the humans. Nobody was winning Species of the Year.
The point that was made by the OP was that the Elves were objectively Evil which simply doesn't track even in Dragonlance (where at worst they were isolationist and snooty) for describing elves as a whole.
Hell, they even went so far as to condemn them for the civil war forcing the Drow under ground (which to be clear, was caused when Arushnee the fateweaver betrayed her husband Corellon and tried to overtake the whole drow pantheon and becoming Lolth when that failed).
I'm not sure how someone looks at elves in any of the major D&D settings and concludes they're definitionally evil in any of the editions.
There's a decent amount of terrible behavior from forgotten realms elf lore, but that's more a case of "elves are not immune to being evil" than "elves are universally evil".
I'm not sure how someone looks at elves in any of the major D&D settings and concludes they're definitionally evil in any of the editions.
There's a decent amount of terrible behavior from forgotten realms elf lore, but that's more a case of "elves are not immune to being evil" than "elves are universally evil".
Again, I'm not arguing that the elves are universally good. There's outliers and exceptions and eras where they haven't been great. More the idea of OP screaming about how they're definitionally evil. (except in warhammer which... man what).
The point that was made by the OP was that the Elves were objectively Evil which simply doesn't track even in Dragonlance (where at worst they were isolationist and snooty) for describing elves as a whole.
Hell, they even went so far as to condemn them for the civil war forcing the Drow under ground (which to be clear, was caused when Arushnee the fateweaver betrayed her husband Corellon and tried to overtake the whole drow pantheon and becoming Lolth when that failed).
Oh I definitely agree they weren't evil (or at least, no more evil than the other mortals were back then.) Just saying one doesn't have to go outside of D&D to find a more negative portrayal of them if that's what is being sought for some reason.
There's a decent amount of terrible behavior from forgotten realms elf lore, but that's more a case of "elves are not immune to being evil" than "elves are universally evil".
Yeah, that. But the internet is where nuance goes to die and all 😝
About "Rings of Power", that series was derived from Tolkien's notes and private letters but it was written without Tolkien's thought process. Were you aware that Tolkien went through 13 or 14 rough drafts before he crafted the version of "Fellowship of the Ring" with which he felt comfortable? He went through a similar numbers of rough drafts for "The Two Towers" and "The Return of the King". All of these rough drafts are preserved in a reserved room at Oxford University. "Rings of Power" probably did not go through such a lengthy thought and review process, which is probably why it feels that something is lacking.
That having been said, it will be interesting to see how well Stephen Colbert's additional chapter to "Fellowship of the Ring" fits into the overall story arc. Colbert is a Tolkien scholar and an excellent writer but has he acquired the Tolkien "magic touch"? We will have to wait and see.
I mean, you're kinda reaching for that interpretation, imo. Or at least reaching to pigeonhole it with that single particular subtext. It's a basic "us" and "them", which is pretty much how any early culture will define itself in relation to other groups. On its own, they're not anymore loaded than "human" and "nonhuman". Obviously they can become used as superlative and pejorative in a particular setting/narrative, but I would say the literal translations is just linguistics.
I'm no Tolkien expert but, when looking at the Player's Handbook regarding Character Creation, there are chapters that allow me to choose my Alignment (of which 'Good' is an option) and Species (of which Elf is an option).
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
I'm not sure how someone looks at elves in any of the major D&D settings and concludes they're definitionally evil in any of the editions.
Like the Drow? Sure, a lot of them were putz across the history of most of the editions but that's been mostly abandoned by the writers particularly in the current edition where alignment is barely even a thing.
Maybe the OP is thinking of Elder Scrolls?
Krynn elves were a bit jerkish pre-Cataclysm, but then so were the humans. Nobody was winning Species of the Year.
The point that was made by the OP was that the Elves were objectively Evil which simply doesn't track even in Dragonlance (where at worst they were isolationist and snooty) for describing elves as a whole.
Hell, they even went so far as to condemn them for the civil war forcing the Drow under ground (which to be clear, was caused when Arushnee the fateweaver betrayed her husband Corellon and tried to overtake the whole drow pantheon and becoming Lolth when that failed).
There's a decent amount of terrible behavior from forgotten realms elf lore, but that's more a case of "elves are not immune to being evil" than "elves are universally evil".
Again, I'm not arguing that the elves are universally good. There's outliers and exceptions and eras where they haven't been great. More the idea of OP screaming about how they're definitionally evil. (except in warhammer which... man what).
Oh I definitely agree they weren't evil (or at least, no more evil than the other mortals were back then.) Just saying one doesn't have to go outside of D&D to find a more negative portrayal of them if that's what is being sought for some reason.
Yeah, that. But the internet is where nuance goes to die and all 😝
I just realized what it sounds like the OP is basing this on- the elves from 8-Bit Theater.