If you had the need to compare objectively two DMs, what criteria would you consider and how would you rate it? (lowest and highest scores are enough).
For example: "Acting" goes from playing every NPC in 3rd person and in a flat identical way all the way up to making up different voices and attitudes for every NPC in town.
A good question. I've been DMing for some years now and generally would rate DMs by these three broad criteria:
1. Content. Content would be a measure of how much effort and detail a DM is putting into their world. Are their encounters diverse and interesting? Do they have nice city and dungeon layouts that pay attention to detail? Is the countryside filled with things to explore? Are there interesting quests with variable objectives? That sort of thing.
2. Immersion. This would be a measure of well your DM can grab and hold your attention. It includes them being a good story teller but goes beyond that. Are they able to seamlessly transition between quirky and interesting NPCs with variable personalities that you love talking to, while pulling off funny accents? Are they good narrators, able to paint a picture in your head and give you a blow by blow of a combat turn and get you really into it? Do you like hearing their voice?
3. Management skills. General game management stuff, do they pace the game well, do they involve all players, do they deal with problems effectively, do they use session time productivity, do they enforce game rules effectively, do they make good judgements and rulings and run the game fairly.
Those are the 3. If you wanted to rate a particular DM or compare them to another you could think about how skilled they are in those areas from 1-5.
None of that is Objective. It is all subjective. What is immersive to one player might not be to another, what is interesting to one might be boring to another. One cannot “objectively” compare something to another when all of the criteria are inherently subjective.
Fun is a whole ball of wax that no single measure can quantify. It's all situational. Overacting can be distracting or appropriate. Bending rules can be frustrating or rewarding. It all depends on the sum of all things.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I don't really play or run modules. The following largely assumes a virtual tabletop (Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, whatever) and a homebrew world.
World Material: How many documents are available for players to help them anchor player designs/concepts into the world? These should include reference material on the world, maps, demographics, economics, and cultural notes. What is the quality of the writing?- While there are certain subjective elements to the latter value; there are objective means of evaluating the quality of writing.
Handouts/Reference Material/Macros: The more aids and assistance material, the better. Does the GM have a macro for healing potions in Roll20? Do they have macros for other abilities (Deflect Missiles etc..). Probably Seems like small details, but the small efforts indicate attention to detail. Do they have a single point of reference for their homebrew rules? Do they have handouts for meaningful items/loot hoards?
Session Zero Outline and Agenda: GMs have to be organized. A lack of an outline or agenda for Session Zero is a red flag. Expectations should be established and standards of behavior set.
Previous Games: Everyone has to start somewhere. But a GM with multiple long term games with steady player bases under their belt are more likely to run future successful campaigns.
Checking In: Does the GM check in with their players? How frequently do they do so? This can be as simple as a message that says, "Hey, you having fun? You enjoying your character?" Failing to do this can prevent vital feedback from reaching the GM.
I think that the very idea of a system to evaluate DM's is kind of rude. You see posts on social media where people get compared to DMs such as Chris Perkins, Kate Welch and Matt Mercer. It sets a level of expectation not all DM's can measure up to and trying to create a system to evaluate DMs would only amplify that kind of behavior. The only measure that really matters is did YOU have fun.
Ok. But what if a DM is looking to get feedback to improve his/her skills? It isn't a bad idea to have some system to evaluate a DM on whatever set of metrics (I already threw mine out there). Your players can help you improve by giving that feedback and identifying your personal strengths and weaknesses. There is nothing "rude" about it, and no one in their right mind is expecting you to be Chris Perkins or Matt Mercer.
Fun is great and all but it doesn't mean a dm can't still strive to be even better if their players are having fun. Even with a mediocre or inexperienced dm d&d is still fun.
"If you had the need to compare objectively two DMs, what criteria would you consider and how would you rate it?"
Absolutely nothing about this question is about giving feed back to a DM to help them improve. It ONLY wants to compare and rate DMs against one another.
If you want to give feed back, talking to them about what you would like is better than rating them and comparing them to other DMs.
"If you had the need to compare objectively two DMs, what criteria would you consider and how would you rate it?"
Absolutely nothing about this question is about giving feed back to a DM to help them improve. It ONLY wants to compare and rate DMs against one another.
If you want to give feed back, talking to them about what you would like is better than rating them and comparing them to other DMs.
Right, I'm aware of the original question the Gonz fellow asked. That's what I tried to answer initially. Why he/she wants to compare two DMs I have no idea, maybe they will care to elaborate at some point.
I was responding to your assertion that "the very idea of a system to evaluate dms is kind of rude". And all that matters is fun. I somewhat disagreed and offered my reasoning as to why.
The actual quote from my post is, "I think that the very idea of a system to evaluate DM's is kind of rude." You cut off the "I think" portion that implies that this is my opinion.
Now to be clear, I understand what you are saying and your opinion is valid. However, I was basing my post only on the original question as it was presented. If a DM is looking for feed back that is fine, but without any other information, the OP's question seems rude to me. Again, that is solely my opinion.
The actual quote from my post is, "I think that the very idea of a system to evaluate DM's is kind of rude." You cut off the "I think" portion that implies that this is my opinion.
Now to be clear, I understand what you are saying and your opinion is valid. However, I was basing my post only on the original question as it was presented. If a DM is looking for feed back that is fine, but without any other information, the OP's question seems rude to me. Again, that is solely my opinion.
I still do not see it as being any more or less rude than any other evaluation of anything, particularly of any entertainment. Is someone giving their opinion of a TV series being rude to the series creators who will almost certainly never hear the criticism?
Friendly competition between friends is cool. I think it would be difficult to do a purely objective competition of this type. Enjoyment is subjective so to make it fair, you would have to enlist the help of your players and have each do a secret ballot vote. Helps the players feel like they can be honest with their selection, without directly hurting anyone's feelings.
Here's a thought experiment:
If you had the need to compare objectively two DMs, what criteria would you consider and how would you rate it? (lowest and highest scores are enough).
For example: "Acting" goes from playing every NPC in 3rd person and in a flat identical way all the way up to making up different voices and attitudes for every NPC in town.
What are your ideas?
"Let your dice roll"
codexanathema.com
A good question. I've been DMing for some years now and generally would rate DMs by these three broad criteria:
1. Content. Content would be a measure of how much effort and detail a DM is putting into their world. Are their encounters diverse and interesting? Do they have nice city and dungeon layouts that pay attention to detail? Is the countryside filled with things to explore? Are there interesting quests with variable objectives? That sort of thing.
2. Immersion. This would be a measure of well your DM can grab and hold your attention. It includes them being a good story teller but goes beyond that. Are they able to seamlessly transition between quirky and interesting NPCs with variable personalities that you love talking to, while pulling off funny accents? Are they good narrators, able to paint a picture in your head and give you a blow by blow of a combat turn and get you really into it? Do you like hearing their voice?
3. Management skills. General game management stuff, do they pace the game well, do they involve all players, do they deal with problems effectively, do they use session time productivity, do they enforce game rules effectively, do they make good judgements and rulings and run the game fairly.
Those are the 3. If you wanted to rate a particular DM or compare them to another you could think about how skilled they are in those areas from 1-5.
None of that is Objective. It is all subjective. What is immersive to one player might not be to another, what is interesting to one might be boring to another. One cannot “objectively” compare something to another when all of the criteria are inherently subjective.
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Fun. Thazzit.
Fun is a whole ball of wax that no single measure can quantify. It's all situational. Overacting can be distracting or appropriate. Bending rules can be frustrating or rewarding. It all depends on the sum of all things.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I'd say ask each party member whether what they think and find the average.
There is no dawn after eternal night.
Homebrew: Magic items, Subclasses
I don't really play or run modules. The following largely assumes a virtual tabletop (Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, whatever) and a homebrew world.
World Material: How many documents are available for players to help them anchor player designs/concepts into the world? These should include reference material on the world, maps, demographics, economics, and cultural notes. What is the quality of the writing?- While there are certain subjective elements to the latter value; there are objective means of evaluating the quality of writing.
Handouts/Reference Material/Macros: The more aids and assistance material, the better. Does the GM have a macro for healing potions in Roll20? Do they have macros for other abilities (Deflect Missiles etc..). Probably Seems like small details, but the small efforts indicate attention to detail. Do they have a single point of reference for their homebrew rules? Do they have handouts for meaningful items/loot hoards?
Session Zero Outline and Agenda: GMs have to be organized. A lack of an outline or agenda for Session Zero is a red flag. Expectations should be established and standards of behavior set.
Previous Games: Everyone has to start somewhere. But a GM with multiple long term games with steady player bases under their belt are more likely to run future successful campaigns.
Checking In: Does the GM check in with their players? How frequently do they do so? This can be as simple as a message that says, "Hey, you having fun? You enjoying your character?" Failing to do this can prevent vital feedback from reaching the GM.
If I were to compare two (or more) GMs, my sole and only criteria would be, is their game fun...?
Because really, what could possibly be more important than that? :)
I think that the very idea of a system to evaluate DM's is kind of rude. You see posts on social media where people get compared to DMs such as Chris Perkins, Kate Welch and Matt Mercer. It sets a level of expectation not all DM's can measure up to and trying to create a system to evaluate DMs would only amplify that kind of behavior. The only measure that really matters is did YOU have fun.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Ok. But what if a DM is looking to get feedback to improve his/her skills? It isn't a bad idea to have some system to evaluate a DM on whatever set of metrics (I already threw mine out there). Your players can help you improve by giving that feedback and identifying your personal strengths and weaknesses. There is nothing "rude" about it, and no one in their right mind is expecting you to be Chris Perkins or Matt Mercer.
Fun is great and all but it doesn't mean a dm can't still strive to be even better if their players are having fun. Even with a mediocre or inexperienced dm d&d is still fun.
"If you had the need to compare objectively two DMs, what criteria would you consider and how would you rate it?"
Absolutely nothing about this question is about giving feed back to a DM to help them improve. It ONLY wants to compare and rate DMs against one another.
If you want to give feed back, talking to them about what you would like is better than rating them and comparing them to other DMs.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
The question presented is still not about giving feed back to a DM as suggested by SireSamuel. It is strictly about comparing one DM to another DM.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
The question clearly states the objective.
To objectively compare 2 DMs.
Number 2 is assumption and is not supported by anything from the original question.
My opinion is that the premise of the question it is rude. It is just an opinion.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Right, I'm aware of the original question the Gonz fellow asked. That's what I tried to answer initially. Why he/she wants to compare two DMs I have no idea, maybe they will care to elaborate at some point.
I was responding to your assertion that "the very idea of a system to evaluate dms is kind of rude". And all that matters is fun. I somewhat disagreed and offered my reasoning as to why.
The actual quote from my post is, "I think that the very idea of a system to evaluate DM's is kind of rude." You cut off the "I think" portion that implies that this is my opinion.
Now to be clear, I understand what you are saying and your opinion is valid. However, I was basing my post only on the original question as it was presented. If a DM is looking for feed back that is fine, but without any other information, the OP's question seems rude to me. Again, that is solely my opinion.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Well, I hope you have a good life.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Hello, everyone, Gonz here, the author of the question.
Just to clarify that the purpose of such comparing of two DMs would be in terms of a healthy competition. I'm looking for criteria to select a winner.
Thank you all for taking the time and participating, I find all your opinions super valuable!
"Let your dice roll"
codexanathema.com
Friendly competition between friends is cool. I think it would be difficult to do a purely objective competition of this type. Enjoyment is subjective so to make it fair, you would have to enlist the help of your players and have each do a secret ballot vote. Helps the players feel like they can be honest with their selection, without directly hurting anyone's feelings.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master