Another idea... You subscribe, get access to the core rules (PHB, MM, DMG), and get a discount on "pay to own" that grows with consecutively subscribed months. So maybe you subscribe for two years, buy a bunch of stuff, and stop subscribing because you can still have a robust collection. This method encourages retention without leaving you feeling like you lose everyrhing when you unsubscribe.
People seem very held up on DnDB as a content repository rather than a content delivery service and feature set.
If I buy Settlers of Catan the board game, and purchase all the Catan expansions; unless otherwise included, I don't feel entitled to all that same content in online multiplayer video game form. If I wanted a videogame Catan, I would have to purchase that as a separate product, despite it consisting of the same rules and content of the board game because it's a different product delivering that content in a different way with different/extra features.
People seem very held up on DnDB as a content repository rather than a content delivery service and feature set.
If I buy Settlers of Catan the board game, and purchase all the Catan expansions; unless otherwise included, I don't feel entitled to all that same content in online multiplayer video game form. If I wanted a videogame Catan, I would have to purchase that as a separate product, despite it consisting of the same rules and content of the board game because it's a different product delivering that content in a different way with different/extra features.
Can you use the videogame in conjunction with the board game?
Or is it two different things?
You can see it like this too.
You have the boardgame Catan and the rules that are included. Your cat eats the rulebook and you need to get the hands on a pdf with the rules.
Are you happy to pay for that or do you feel that this should be free as you have paid for the boardgame?
Dont get me wrong. I am happy to pay for the digital content even though i have the books.
If i dont feel like i need it i will not pay for it.
But dont compare apples an trains.
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I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
As many people have said, a lot of what this site plans to offer is available elsewhere. What I see as the biggest advantage of Beyond is that it's official, and therefore it's default, meaning it has a lot of potential for AL specifically (you can easily get all of a private group on a single website together, but getting all of AL to use it without it being official is unlikely to happen). We all have our AL characters tied to DCI numbers and track our GM's DCI number on our log sheets but (at least for the vast majority of us who just float between small game stores) this doesn't DO anything. A web tool that integrated all that so that you can look at somebody else's character and see on their logsheets all verified information from the other GMs they've played with would be just amazing.
(SIDE NOTE: Can we also have logsheets available for each character sheet for those of us who do play AL?)
And in terms of certain features being locked behind a pay wall, the things they've listed seem reasonable so far. My only two concerns would be 1) As many have said, I don't want to re-purchase content I've already paid for and 2) If there ARE interactive features to facilitate campaign play, they need to be free. I don't want to pay my subscription and not be able to use all the campaign options properly because other people in my group aren't interested in paying theirs.
I mean, let's be real, Wizards of the Coast (and/or Hasbro in general) are going to want to charge full price. Beyond is a great idea, but it'll be dead on arrival if they do that (and I will bet real money they will).
Inevitably people will realize it's asinine to pay full price (or piecemeal) for the content again when Beyond doesn't even have a VTT. Meaning at least in Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds they can play online with friends while they purchase several $50 books all over again.
Bookmark this post, I'd love to be proven wrong and mocked in the near future, but this is now the third time out and I have absolutely no faith that the paid for aspects of this product will be at all consumer friendly.
I have and will continue to buy physical books. That said, I *LOVED* the original 4e character creation tool when it was an independent download. I would gladly pay extra as a one time fee to not rely on a subscription model for a) having to unsub when my group took breaks and resubbing when we started up again and b) having the offline capacity that the original 4e tools did before they moved to the web based model.
I also probably won't be willing to pay anything if there isn't some form of "offline mode".
I used the DDI in 4th and followed the train wreck tht was the fantasy grounds WoTC integration before it fell apart. I am really hoping for something that will wow us all.
If it does not happen I have a good doc with 30 Plus different tools I will continue to use like beyond never happened
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Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
A choice of a $5-$10 a month subscription to get everything past and present OR buying each book a la carte would be my preference. And the Core Set had better be heavily discounted. We have all bought them before, if we must buy them again, it should be no more than $30-$50 for the whole shebang.
I know I wouldn't be buying the core books if they were more than $15-20 apiece...
On a slightly different note, I'd absolutely not be willing to drop $15/month as the base price, like some people have said. I don't see anything D&D Beyond could possibly add to make me shell out that much, short of Matthew Mercer running a game for me or Vin Diesel stopping in on my game or something like that,
well keep an open mind and see what they do, We all might be surprised :)
I'm keeping an open mind, but at the same time I'm not willing to pay $15/month for anything but the most extraordinary features. Full stop. And the Curse team should hear that in advance, because opening with a bad pricing plan will kill the service real fast.
Personally, as naive as it sounds.........a one time fee of like $19.99 for lifetime, all-access, unconditional, DRM free, etc. access to the Beyond feature suite would, IN MY OPINON, be the best and most player and consumer friendly option. The goodwill generated by this move would result in every player purchasing a "Beyond Pass" or whatever, and would (again, in my opinion) result in more people getting into D&D.
Can we get that link to your google doc, please? I'm interested in checking it out.
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"...Debts must always be paid, sometimes in more than blood and gold. But this is Ordo Ursa," Ren places his hand on Erakas's chest, right where the Dragonborn's heart is. "Right here. And it always has been and always will be. Don't ever forget that. Because I won't."
Serandis Mendaen (Aereni Elven Rogue/maybe one day Wizard)- Project Point Playtest
Personally I would rather have a offline program. Purchase it and use it. If they added new material offer a code in the book for a digital copy or pay for a digital only copy if you don't want the book. There is nothing I have seen so far that I would pay monthly for. This is not an mmo, so it's not something I would log into daily to make the purchase worth the continued cost.
Can you use the videogame in conjunction with the board game?
Or is it two different things?
You can see it like this too.
You have the boardgame Catan and the rules that are included. Your cat eats the rulebook and you need to get the hands on a pdf with the rules.
Are you happy to pay for that or do you feel that this should be free as you have paid for the boardgame?
Dont get me wrong. I am happy to pay for the digital content even though i have the books.
If i dont feel like i need it i will not pay for it.
But dont compare apples an trains.
I've never heard of a board game company not honoring or at least providing the purchase of replacements for lost/damaged game materials.
And, if I purchase a digital version of a board game like Catan, what stops me from producing my own physical copies of the rules to use privately? Time, materials, skills to create them?
What stops someone from creating their own app for DnD to use privately? Time, materials for app creation, and skills to program?
Ultimately, a purchase of a finished product is for that standalone product. The DnD core books compared to the DnDBeyond service are two distinct products, and that mandates two separate transactions.
I had The 4E DDI from when they had a program on my desktop to when they moved it all to web to stop piracy. I found it was worth it but Every time they added more books to the char builder it would break just a bit more.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
Personally I would rather have a offline program. Purchase it and use it. If they added new material offer a code in the book for a digital copy or pay for a digital only copy if you don't want the book. There is nothing I have seen so far that I would pay monthly for. This is not an mmo, so it's not something I would log into daily to make the purchase worth the continued cost.
Personally I would rather have a offline program. Purchase it and use it. If they added new material offer a code in the book for a digital copy or pay for a digital only copy if you don't want the book. There is nothing I have seen so far that I would pay monthly for. This is not an mmo, so it's not something I would log into daily to make the purchase worth the continued cost.
Found this in another thread posted by a mod. Offline app functionality confirmed:
"I am happy to say we are working on a mobile app to go along with the website! We do not have any information beyond that to share yet. But offline is very important to us."
I know they've stated that there will be multiple payment options. I am really hoping that there will be an option for a flat subscription fee (preferably no more than $10 but I'd be willing to pay $15 for the right stuff). And with a subscription you get access to ALL current and future content, and the app automatically updates with the most recent information any time new stuff falls. (new supplements, campaigns, and even unearthed arcana).
I really don't want like a $10 subscription but then also have to pay a bunch of micro-transactions every time new content comes out.
Also it would be awesome if there were different subscription levels. Like "Player Sub" gives you all the stuff just a player needs and a single account. "DM Sub" might give you a sub that has all the content, and "Party Sub" gives you all content of DM sub, plus like 4-6 "player subs" so I could (if I was feeling magnanimous) fund my entire party.
It would also be awesome if the accounts could be somehow grouped/connected so that I could perhaps while DMing keep an eye on my players character's, be able to see their health, their available spell slots, their items, etc.
I know they've stated that there will be multiple payment options. I am really hoping that there will be an option for a flat subscription fee (preferably no more than $10 but I'd be willing to pay $15 for the right stuff). And with a subscription you get access to ALL current and future content, and the app automatically updates with the most recent information any time new stuff falls. (new supplements, campaigns, and even unearthed arcana).
I really don't want like a $10 subscription but then also have to pay a bunch of micro-transactions every time new content comes out.
Why would you even pay $10 (let alone $15)?!? DDI for 4e was $5.95 a month and got you EVERYTHING (player and gm tools) and included all updates free until the service was discontinued. Plus, even if you unsubbed, your data was kept and if you resubbed you still had it. Again, for $5.95 a month. Anyone who says they want to pay more than that is setting a bad example and is getting ripped off.
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Another idea... You subscribe, get access to the core rules (PHB, MM, DMG), and get a discount on "pay to own" that grows with consecutively subscribed months. So maybe you subscribe for two years, buy a bunch of stuff, and stop subscribing because you can still have a robust collection. This method encourages retention without leaving you feeling like you lose everyrhing when you unsubscribe.
People seem very held up on DnDB as a content repository rather than a content delivery service and feature set.
If I buy Settlers of Catan the board game, and purchase all the Catan expansions; unless otherwise included, I don't feel entitled to all that same content in online multiplayer video game form. If I wanted a videogame Catan, I would have to purchase that as a separate product, despite it consisting of the same rules and content of the board game because it's a different product delivering that content in a different way with different/extra features.
I hate forum signatures.
I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
As many people have said, a lot of what this site plans to offer is available elsewhere. What I see as the biggest advantage of Beyond is that it's official, and therefore it's default, meaning it has a lot of potential for AL specifically (you can easily get all of a private group on a single website together, but getting all of AL to use it without it being official is unlikely to happen). We all have our AL characters tied to DCI numbers and track our GM's DCI number on our log sheets but (at least for the vast majority of us who just float between small game stores) this doesn't DO anything. A web tool that integrated all that so that you can look at somebody else's character and see on their logsheets all verified information from the other GMs they've played with would be just amazing.
(SIDE NOTE: Can we also have logsheets available for each character sheet for those of us who do play AL?)
And in terms of certain features being locked behind a pay wall, the things they've listed seem reasonable so far. My only two concerns would be 1) As many have said, I don't want to re-purchase content I've already paid for and 2) If there ARE interactive features to facilitate campaign play, they need to be free. I don't want to pay my subscription and not be able to use all the campaign options properly because other people in my group aren't interested in paying theirs.
I mean, let's be real, Wizards of the Coast (and/or Hasbro in general) are going to want to charge full price. Beyond is a great idea, but it'll be dead on arrival if they do that (and I will bet real money they will).
Inevitably people will realize it's asinine to pay full price (or piecemeal) for the content again when Beyond doesn't even have a VTT. Meaning at least in Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds they can play online with friends while they purchase several $50 books all over again.
Bookmark this post, I'd love to be proven wrong and mocked in the near future, but this is now the third time out and I have absolutely no faith that the paid for aspects of this product will be at all consumer friendly.
I have and will continue to buy physical books. That said, I *LOVED* the original 4e character creation tool when it was an independent download. I would gladly pay extra as a one time fee to not rely on a subscription model for a) having to unsub when my group took breaks and resubbing when we started up again and b) having the offline capacity that the original 4e tools did before they moved to the web based model.
I also probably won't be willing to pay anything if there isn't some form of "offline mode".
I used the DDI in 4th and followed the train wreck tht was the fantasy grounds WoTC integration before it fell apart. I am really hoping for something that will wow us all.
If it does not happen I have a good doc with 30 Plus different tools I will continue to use like beyond never happened
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
Personally, as naive as it sounds.........a one time fee of like $19.99 for lifetime, all-access, unconditional, DRM free, etc. access to the Beyond feature suite would, IN MY OPINON, be the best and most player and consumer friendly option. The goodwill generated by this move would result in every player purchasing a "Beyond Pass" or whatever, and would (again, in my opinion) result in more people getting into D&D.
Can we get that link to your google doc, please? I'm interested in checking it out.
"...Debts must always be paid, sometimes in more than blood and gold. But this is Ordo Ursa," Ren places his hand on Erakas's chest, right where the Dragonborn's heart is. "Right here. And it always has been and always will be. Don't ever forget that. Because I won't."
Serandis Mendaen (Aereni Elven Rogue/maybe one day Wizard)- Project Point Playtest
Personally I would rather have a offline program. Purchase it and use it. If they added new material offer a code in the book for a digital copy or pay for a digital only copy if you don't want the book. There is nothing I have seen so far that I would pay monthly for. This is not an mmo, so it's not something I would log into daily to make the purchase worth the continued cost.
I hate forum signatures.
4e's DDI wasn't even $15 a month. What do people think they're going to be getting for that kind of money?!?
Found this on another site when people were talking about DDI's price model. Note, this quote is about 4e and from 2011. It is relevant though.
"Cost of PHB1,DMG,MM1 boxed set - $66 Amazon.com. Cost of 1 year DDI subscription - $71.40"
I hope this is allowed, but here is the source of the previous quote:
http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/8303/is-dd-insider-worth-subscribing-to
Or practically every player, at least. I know it's probably wishful thinking, though. :)
I had The 4E DDI from when they had a program on my desktop to when they moved it all to web to stop piracy. I found it was worth it but Every time they added more books to the char builder it would break just a bit more.
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. I will protect those who cannot protect themselves, I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right.
I know they've stated that there will be multiple payment options. I am really hoping that there will be an option for a flat subscription fee (preferably no more than $10 but I'd be willing to pay $15 for the right stuff). And with a subscription you get access to ALL current and future content, and the app automatically updates with the most recent information any time new stuff falls. (new supplements, campaigns, and even unearthed arcana).
I really don't want like a $10 subscription but then also have to pay a bunch of micro-transactions every time new content comes out.
Also it would be awesome if there were different subscription levels. Like "Player Sub" gives you all the stuff just a player needs and a single account. "DM Sub" might give you a sub that has all the content, and "Party Sub" gives you all content of DM sub, plus like 4-6 "player subs" so I could (if I was feeling magnanimous) fund my entire party.
It would also be awesome if the accounts could be somehow grouped/connected so that I could perhaps while DMing keep an eye on my players character's, be able to see their health, their available spell slots, their items, etc.