My campaign has some elements of magic the gathering where Sorin offered one of the party members to become a vampire and start building and army under Sorin's controll to defend the plane should it become in endangered in the future.
So the rogue just accepted it as a loophole to get out of a deal with Asmodeus since vamps dont have souls.
So! I am having him do an initiation "ceremony". Where he needs to fight a human one on one. And the idea is that to be a full memeber of Sorin's coven he needs to be able to keep his cool in the presence of blood. Since sorin is all about maintaining balance not just going on feeding frenzies.
I was thinking of having him make constitution saving throws when he draws blood in the attacks. Would that be mechanically appropriate? Maybe decrease dc after a success, increase after a failure.
Still figuring out the concequences of failure. So bonus points for any ideas.
The idea in general is that this is kind of a training. So once he succeeds here he wont have to do it in the rest of the campaign.
PS. I dont care about RAW unless is a question of balance of the game. So not interested is what vamps are like in RAW
Maybe a skill check type mechanic - three successes before three failures.
Failure would presumably mean denial of membership. Is there a 'lower tier' that he may be accepted to? Or would he be kicked entirely? Can he be allowed to live, or has he 'seen too much'?
Are you sure vampires don’t have a soul that asmodeus can’t capture in some way? Even if they do I can’t asmodeus letting this override the contract that has been signed. An interesting story idea here where the player now owes 2 beings, as asmodeus sends someone to point out that a vampire can still be taken to hell :)
So the rogue just accepted it as a loophole to get out of a deal with Asmodeus since vamps dont have souls.
Rogue might want to rethink the logic of that. If humans have souls and vampires don't, presumably something happened to the soul and might be a good idea to find out what...
I'd say that a Wisdom Save seems more appropriate to me. The challenge is, in many ways, more mental than physical... it's a matter of being able to keep your senses about yourself enough to resist your natural urges, as opposed to just being able to force your body to stand still. If you don't have the mental fortitude to make that first resistance attempt, you wouldn't get the physical option anyway.
As for consequences... I'd say if he fails, a good punishment would be for him to be restrained and starved... basically forced to go full cold-turkey against his will. Sort of like restraining an addict while they're hit with withdrawals until their body is forced to adjust on its own. I'm not sure, mechanically, what the results of that would be within the game itself, but at the very least it's going to be a big waste of time for the party while they have to wait for it.
So the rogue just accepted it as a loophole to get out of a deal with Asmodeus since vamps dont have souls.
Rogue might want to rethink the logic of that. If humans have souls and vampires don't, presumably something happened to the soul and might be a good idea to find out what...
The way i see it, it gets destroyed. Better than forever torture in hell? Not for me to decide
Are you sure vampires don’t have a soul that asmodeus can’t capture in some way? Even if they do I can’t asmodeus letting this override the contract that has been signed. An interesting story idea here where the player now owes 2 beings, as asmodeus sends someone to point out that a vampire can still be taken to hell :)
Oh, Asmo is not just gonna let that go. He may not have a souls but he can be destroyed. I like the idea that he can be taken to hell. Gotta think about that.
Asmo is the BBEG of this campaign so its a question of who gets to whom first.
I'd say that a Wisdom Save seems more appropriate to me. The challenge is, in many ways, more mental than physical... it's a matter of being able to keep your senses about yourself enough to resist your natural urges, as opposed to just being able to force your body to stand still. If you don't have the mental fortitude to make that first resistance attempt, you wouldn't get the physical option anyway.
As for consequences... I'd say if he fails, a good punishment would be for him to be restrained and starved... basically forced to go full cold-turkey against his will. Sort of like restraining an addict while they're hit with withdrawals until their body is forced to adjust on its own. I'm not sure, mechanically, what the results of that would be within the game itself, but at the very least it's going to be a big waste of time for the party while they have to wait for it.
I'd say that a Wisdom Save seems more appropriate to me. The challenge is, in many ways, more mental than physical... it's a matter of being able to keep your senses about yourself enough to resist your natural urges, as opposed to just being able to force your body to stand still. If you don't have the mental fortitude to make that first resistance attempt, you wouldn't get the physical option anyway.
As for consequences... I'd say if he fails, a good punishment would be for him to be restrained and starved... basically forced to go full cold-turkey against his will. Sort of like restraining an addict while they're hit with withdrawals until their body is forced to adjust on its own. I'm not sure, mechanically, what the results of that would be within the game itself, but at the very least it's going to be a big waste of time for the party while they have to wait for it.
Ooooh! I like that. I can work with that
I think mechanically it means exhaustion. And then he gets to try again after a feed. And I'll make it easier the next time around cause of "training abstinence".
Are you sure vampires don’t have a soul that asmodeus can’t capture in some way? Even if they do I can’t asmodeus letting this override the contract that has been signed. An interesting story idea here where the player now owes 2 beings, as asmodeus sends someone to point out that a vampire can still be taken to hell :)
Oh, Asmo is not just gonna let that go. He may not have a souls but he can be destroyed. I like the idea that he can be taken to hell. Gotta think about that.
Asmo is the BBEG of this campaign so its a question of who gets to whom first.
I wouldn’t destroy him, but pull him down to hell on breach of contract. I have run some great Hell based courtroom encounters with the PCs learning just how lawful hell is. In this case you could have a powerful devil be willing to take on the players case, for a price, maybe an adventure or something else.
Or have Asmodeus back them into a corner and then offer a way out after all being a vampire may well make the player more valuable. Maybe they have to gather x many souls for Asmo, maybe they need to act as his agent on the material plane or head into the abyss to fight in the blood war.
The way i see it, it gets destroyed. Better than forever torture in hell? Not for me to decide
If the soul gets destroyed at the time of conversion to a vampire, 'congratulations, the vampire version of you is an NPC, what does your next character look like'? Also, depending on the details of the contract, becoming a vampire might give Asmodeus an immediate claim (you seem to have died...) so he can just drag the vampire body down into hell and torture it.
The way i see it, it gets destroyed. Better than forever torture in hell? Not for me to decide
If the soul gets destroyed at the time of conversion to a vampire, 'congratulations, the vampire version of you is an NPC, what does your next character look like'? Also, depending on the details of the contract, becoming a vampire might give Asmodeus an immediate claim so he can just drag the vampire body down into hell and torture it.
Sure, in your world or a lot of areas of fiction, but the game doesn't have rules on how, exactly, Souls work. If the DM says vampires have no souls and the player can keep using their PC, then that's how it works in that game. Anything related to souls is pretty much 100% homebrew aside from some very specific spells.
Have them generate a Sanity score and use that. Although, in lieu of an independent score they recommend using Wisdom.
You could even add a Short Term madness to the results to represent the blood frenzy tearing at their mind as they resist. (Cherry pick though, like the hallucinations and maybe another one. You don’t want them dropping unconscious during the fight!)
Have them generate a Sanity score and use that. Although, in lieu of an independent score they recommend using Wisdom.
You could even add a Short Term madness to the results to represent the blood frenzy tearing at their mind as they resist. (Cherry pick though, like the hallucinations and maybe another one. You don’t want them dropping unconscious during the fight!)
Hello!
My campaign has some elements of magic the gathering where Sorin offered one of the party members to become a vampire and start building and army under Sorin's controll to defend the plane should it become in endangered in the future.
So the rogue just accepted it as a loophole to get out of a deal with Asmodeus since vamps dont have souls.
So! I am having him do an initiation "ceremony". Where he needs to fight a human one on one. And the idea is that to be a full memeber of Sorin's coven he needs to be able to keep his cool in the presence of blood. Since sorin is all about maintaining balance not just going on feeding frenzies.
I was thinking of having him make constitution saving throws when he draws blood in the attacks. Would that be mechanically appropriate? Maybe decrease dc after a success, increase after a failure.
Still figuring out the concequences of failure. So bonus points for any ideas.
The idea in general is that this is kind of a training. So once he succeeds here he wont have to do it in the rest of the campaign.
PS. I dont care about RAW unless is a question of balance of the game. So not interested is what vamps are like in RAW
Wisdom feels right here, since it's a matter of self control.
Maybe a skill check type mechanic - three successes before three failures.
Failure would presumably mean denial of membership. Is there a 'lower tier' that he may be accepted to? Or would he be kicked entirely? Can he be allowed to live, or has he 'seen too much'?
Are you sure vampires don’t have a soul that asmodeus can’t capture in some way? Even if they do I can’t asmodeus letting this override the contract that has been signed. An interesting story idea here where the player now owes 2 beings, as asmodeus sends someone to point out that a vampire can still be taken to hell :)
Rogue might want to rethink the logic of that. If humans have souls and vampires don't, presumably something happened to the soul and might be a good idea to find out what...
I'd say that a Wisdom Save seems more appropriate to me. The challenge is, in many ways, more mental than physical... it's a matter of being able to keep your senses about yourself enough to resist your natural urges, as opposed to just being able to force your body to stand still. If you don't have the mental fortitude to make that first resistance attempt, you wouldn't get the physical option anyway.
As for consequences... I'd say if he fails, a good punishment would be for him to be restrained and starved... basically forced to go full cold-turkey against his will. Sort of like restraining an addict while they're hit with withdrawals until their body is forced to adjust on its own. I'm not sure, mechanically, what the results of that would be within the game itself, but at the very least it's going to be a big waste of time for the party while they have to wait for it.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
The way i see it, it gets destroyed. Better than forever torture in hell? Not for me to decide
Oh, Asmo is not just gonna let that go. He may not have a souls but he can be destroyed. I like the idea that he can be taken to hell. Gotta think about that.
Asmo is the BBEG of this campaign so its a question of who gets to whom first.
Ooooh! I like that. I can work with that
I think mechanically it means exhaustion. And then he gets to try again after a feed. And I'll make it easier the next time around cause of "training abstinence".
I wouldn’t destroy him, but pull him down to hell on breach of contract. I have run some great Hell based courtroom encounters with the PCs learning just how lawful hell is. In this case you could have a powerful devil be willing to take on the players case, for a price, maybe an adventure or something else.
Or have Asmodeus back them into a corner and then offer a way out after all being a vampire may well make the player more valuable. Maybe they have to gather x many souls for Asmo, maybe they need to act as his agent on the material plane or head into the abyss to fight in the blood war.
If the soul gets destroyed at the time of conversion to a vampire, 'congratulations, the vampire version of you is an NPC, what does your next character look like'? Also, depending on the details of the contract, becoming a vampire might give Asmodeus an immediate claim (you seem to have died...) so he can just drag the vampire body down into hell and torture it.
Sure, in your world or a lot of areas of fiction, but the game doesn't have rules on how, exactly, Souls work. If the DM says vampires have no souls and the player can keep using their PC, then that's how it works in that game. Anything related to souls is pretty much 100% homebrew aside from some very specific spells.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Contrary opinion - a Charisma save. It seems like a sense of self, centredness, willpower and personality might be appropriate.
I would use the optional rules for Sanity. (To resist the blood frenzy.)
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#NewAbilityScoresHonorandSanity
Have them generate a Sanity score and use that. Although, in lieu of an independent score they recommend using Wisdom.
You could even add a Short Term madness to the results to represent the blood frenzy tearing at their mind as they resist. (Cherry pick though, like the hallucinations and maybe another one. You don’t want them dropping unconscious during the fight!)
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/running-the-game#Madness
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interesting! Thanks!