So my player wants to combine the warforged with the bladesinger (that's only for elves) I just did the AC math. The warforged have a base ac when in woodcore Form (technically unarmored) Given that you have +5 in dex you will have a base ac of 11+5 +proficiency bonus. Which is a nice ac if you are lvl 8 =19 AC. NOW IF YOU ARE A BLADESINGER YOU CAN AD YOUR INT SCORE TO YOU AC. which brings it up to a 24. Bladesinger is a wizard class. Meaning you can cast shield. Adding another +5 to this monster. Then put a cloak of protection into the guy. Giving him a goddamn 30 ac with shield. This is when you Prof bonus is +3. With a +6 youwould end up with an 11+5+6+5+1= 28 ac and a shield reaction bringing it up to 33. So depending a bit how can I tackle this? Should I just tell him no, nerf him or other. Suggestions?
Why warforged? Are they just min/maxing? Or is there a backstory about how the warforged was living with the elves to learn bladesinging? If they are just trying to do it for the stats I would say no. I would also say no because once you allow for racial restrictions to be lifted, you're opening yourself up to players wanting to take elf/dwarf/halfling/etc only feats. (Maybe... don't know your players)
If you do allow it, don't nerf it. All or none is usually best to keep things clear throughout the campaign. At the end of the day the AC boost isn't too skewed from an elf bladesinger. At high levels, a player could easily acquire a +2 studded leather. So even at a +6 proficiency bump to AC, the difference is only 3 higher than an elf of the same class, 2 higher if they get a +3 studded leather.
Because they can't wear armor probably. So they need something to scale AC as they level and other races pick up magic armor. From a lore standpoint, they were built for war, and having high AC would be a main design feature if you were creating something for fighting.
Bladesinger is called out as Elves only. That is all the reason you need to say no. I wouldn't allow it as it takes away from the distinctions between the races. There aren't a lot of exclusive things in 5e, but I think the ones there are add a lot of character.
The player would have to come up with a very, extremely good in character backstory reason why a Warforged should be treated as an Elf and be granted training in this very secret knowledge before I would even consider it. Further the player would have to give me this background pitch without any prompting to do so. If when they pitched me the idea for the character they did not give me the compelling background that would even make this possible then I would disallow it.
I'm not a fan of racially locked class options (unlike feats which are meant to comliment or accentuate their racial features). And the race classes themselves even say that it is only the case for the forgotten realms setting.
I'm actually playing a Warforged bladesinger in a homebrew campaign. We started at level 4 and no combat yet, so I can't comment on how overpowered it might be.
I don’t see why not. This is easy to solve. Don’t attack.
My favorite creature for the AC problem is a Nilbog, a never ending goblin deity. Have a bunch of goblins around. Have cover. Using your Dm smarts, have the Nilbog Hideous laughter mister.I-Can’t-Be-Hit. Now, no reactions. Or actions. Or bonus actions. Or anything else. Have the rest of the goblins swarm him, and boom, he’s dead.
In all seriousness though, You are not the enemy. You are not the BBEG. You aren’t going against the players in a PvP match. You are telling a story. Want combat to be difficult? Look up. Does it go with the story? Is everyone else ok with it? Does it bother you? If you said yes to all of these questions except the last one, it’s alright. Let him. Everyone’s having fun, there is no problem here.
Use conditions and exhaustion whenever possible. Warforged are fairly useless outside of combat. Use that to your advantage. Having a high AC and being unable to hit anything is pretty useless. I know because I was recently a punching bag with my warforged barbarian. (So many poor rolls)
IN the end I told him no, I couldn't find a good story reason (he didn't provide one) and i mostly didn't want him to outshine some of the other players. he is still allowed to use warforged or bladesinger but not together. Thanks for all your advise :D
IN the end I told him no, I couldn't find a good story reason (he didn't provide one) and i mostly didn't want him to outshine some of the other players. he is still allowed to use warforged or bladesinger but not together. Thanks for all your advise :D
Not wanting him to outshine the others sounds like a very good reason.
If you do this, require point buy. At level 9, a point buy warforged bladesinger is not going to have INT 20 and DEX 20, so the numbers are more reasonable.
But stll, I wouldn't do this. The terms "warforged" and "dancer" don't really go together.
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So my player wants to combine the warforged with the bladesinger (that's only for elves)
I just did the AC math. The warforged have a base ac when in woodcore Form (technically unarmored) Given that you have +5 in dex you will have a base ac of 11+5 +proficiency bonus. Which is a nice ac if you are lvl 8 =19 AC. NOW IF YOU ARE A BLADESINGER YOU CAN AD YOUR INT SCORE TO YOU AC. which brings it up to a 24. Bladesinger is a wizard class. Meaning you can cast shield. Adding another +5 to this monster. Then put a cloak of protection into the guy. Giving him a goddamn 30 ac with shield. This is when you Prof bonus is +3. With a +6 youwould end up with an 11+5+6+5+1= 28 ac and a shield reaction bringing it up to 33. So depending a bit how can I tackle this? Should I just tell him no, nerf him or other. Suggestions?
Fake it til you make it.
hmmm... can you have him start as an elf, and then work it into your campaign that he dies and gets reincarnated as a war-forged?
and to get around his high AC (which is only temporary due to shield and bladesinging anyway) use monsters or attacks that require a saving throw
Why warforged? Are they just min/maxing? Or is there a backstory about how the warforged was living with the elves to learn bladesinging? If they are just trying to do it for the stats I would say no. I would also say no because once you allow for racial restrictions to be lifted, you're opening yourself up to players wanting to take elf/dwarf/halfling/etc only feats. (Maybe... don't know your players)
If you do allow it, don't nerf it. All or none is usually best to keep things clear throughout the campaign. At the end of the day the AC boost isn't too skewed from an elf bladesinger. At high levels, a player could easily acquire a +2 studded leather. So even at a +6 proficiency bump to AC, the difference is only 3 higher than an elf of the same class, 2 higher if they get a +3 studded leather.
I’m not familiar with warforged characters. Why do they add their proficiency bonus to AC?
Because they can't wear armor probably. So they need something to scale AC as they level and other races pick up magic armor. From a lore standpoint, they were built for war, and having high AC would be a main design feature if you were creating something for fighting.
Bladesinger is called out as Elves only. That is all the reason you need to say no. I wouldn't allow it as it takes away from the distinctions between the races. There aren't a lot of exclusive things in 5e, but I think the ones there are add a lot of character.
The player would have to come up with a very, extremely good in character backstory reason why a Warforged should be treated as an Elf and be granted training in this very secret knowledge before I would even consider it. Further the player would have to give me this background pitch without any prompting to do so. If when they pitched me the idea for the character they did not give me the compelling background that would even make this possible then I would disallow it.
I'm not a fan of racially locked class options (unlike feats which are meant to comliment or accentuate their racial features). And the race classes themselves even say that it is only the case for the forgotten realms setting.
I'm actually playing a Warforged bladesinger in a homebrew campaign. We started at level 4 and no combat yet, so I can't comment on how overpowered it might be.
Are you going for the Bladesinger in Heavy Plating mode?
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I'm not. And according to OP, neother is his player.
Bladesong can't work with medium or heavy armor or shields.
I don’t see why not. This is easy to solve. Don’t attack.
My favorite creature for the AC problem is a Nilbog, a never ending goblin deity. Have a bunch of goblins around. Have cover. Using your Dm smarts, have the Nilbog Hideous laughter mister.I-Can’t-Be-Hit. Now, no reactions. Or actions. Or bonus actions. Or anything else. Have the rest of the goblins swarm him, and boom, he’s dead.
In all seriousness though, You are not the enemy. You are not the BBEG. You aren’t going against the players in a PvP match. You are telling a story. Want combat to be difficult? Look up. Does it go with the story? Is everyone else ok with it? Does it bother you? If you said yes to all of these questions except the last one, it’s alright. Let him. Everyone’s having fun, there is no problem here.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Use conditions and exhaustion whenever possible. Warforged are fairly useless outside of combat. Use that to your advantage. Having a high AC and being unable to hit anything is pretty useless. I know because I was recently a punching bag with my warforged barbarian. (So many poor rolls)
IN the end I told him no, I couldn't find a good story reason (he didn't provide one) and i mostly didn't want him to outshine some of the other players. he is still allowed to use warforged or bladesinger but not together. Thanks for all your advise :D
Fake it til you make it.
Not wanting him to outshine the others sounds like a very good reason.
If you do this, require point buy. At level 9, a point buy warforged bladesinger is not going to have INT 20 and DEX 20, so the numbers are more reasonable.
But stll, I wouldn't do this. The terms "warforged" and "dancer" don't really go together.