I'm looking at the rules for buying and selling magic items in Xanthar's Guide and I am thinking of using that as a baseline for selling magic items in tow and cities.
I break the rules. In large towns frequented by Adventurers and most cities in my campaign world there are “Brokers.” Basically pawn/consignment shops for magic items. The Brokers in a large town might have a selection of common magic items up to uncommon in a bigger city. For anything more powerful than that they would have to go to a specific Auction in the Capital.
The purchase price for basic common items (Pole of Collapsing for example) the purchase price might be 100ish gp, for something like a Dagger, +1 it would be closer to 500 gp. The price they might sell them for would be somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 the purchase price depending on opposed checks.
I break the rules. In large towns frequented by Adventurers and most cities in my campaign world there are “Brokers.” Basically pawn/consignment shops for magic items. The Brokers in a large town might have a selection of common magic items up to uncommon in a bigger city. For anything more powerful than that they would have to go to a specific Auction in the Capital.
The purchase price for basic common items (Pole of Collapsing for example) the purchase price might be 100ish gp, for something like a Dagger, +1 it would be closer to 500 gp. The price they might sell them for would be somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 the purchase price depending on opposed checks.
So you use elements of the Xanathar's Guild rules is that what I'm reading?
I break the rules. In large towns frequented by Adventurers and most cities in my campaign world there are “Brokers.” Basically pawn/consignment shops for magic items. The Brokers in a large town might have a selection of common magic items up to uncommon in a bigger city. For anything more powerful than that they would have to go to a specific Auction in the Capital.
The purchase price for basic common items (Pole of Collapsing for example) the purchase price might be 100ish gp, for something like a Dagger, +1 it would be closer to 500 gp. The price they might sell them for would be somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 the purchase price depending on opposed checks.
So you use elements of the Xanathar's Guild rules is that what I'm reading?
Not quite. Official sources dissuade DMs from having anything like “magic shoppes” in D&D. They hates it.
Yeah, one of our DMs is very opposed to diverse magic shops. There are some people that sell items, but usually we get a list of available things. Most of it trash we aren't going to buy with a few "gems' in the mix. And we never can get more than one item of the same kind... so whoever gets the Ring of Protection... good luck! In the end we find a few things, but it is a very low magic campaign any time he runs a system. I tend to limit bazaar shopping to very large towns with some random items sprinkled in along the way, but if you want something, let me know and I'll find a guy to find a guy to get back with you... on Tuesday. Pricing can be one of the most frustrating things. You almost need a spreadsheet so you can keep up with how much they got what items for in what location just so you can be realistic in your own fantasy world. I do understand the price range mechanic, but it can just take so much extra time as a DM to try to balance pricing if you are looking at a wider selection.
My problem with XGE is that the crafting/buying/selling rules don't all fit together very well - especially when your character is in a city like Waterdeep with downtime and you're talking mundane/common/uncommon items that have a decent market. the idea that you can sell something for a significantly different price than you can buy it (haggling excluded), or that you would craft something and be stuck with a sell price less than that materials cost - in a city environment with with real supply and demand - is silly.
...so i just look at the crafting table and say buy/sell prices are 10% higher than those prices when you're in a city. The only variables are the multiplier and the raw material price (big city i go by XGE, small town/villages are on a case-by-case basis if they can be bought/sold at all - the easy rule use is if the raw materials couldn't be purchased in that environment, you won't find a buyer or a seller either.
and i no longer allow anyone to buy or create a robe of useful items....because buying an item for 100-600 gp (or crafting for 200 gp) and then dumping the pockets and selling the contents for theoretically up to 16,000 gp (if you're dumblucky - but still a couple thousand if you're okaylucky) is bananas.
D&D lottery = buying a robe of useful items for 2,000 gp...heck with scratchers.
Edit: with my bad math, a robe of useful items will, on average, produce 1,903.16 gp in goods...assuming the going rate for a peon to dig a 10' hole is 5 sp. (which tells me it should be rare).
The usual problem with selling magic items is that it the demand for a lot of items is pretty low. If you actually hire an enchanter to make you an item its going to run you the cost of production plus labor and markup, but for already made items you need to find a buyer or a seller. When selling, trying to sell quickly will probably result in a value that's well below the new cost, and finding buyer willing to pay more may well take a very long time. When buying, there's a fair chance that there's some magic items out there that someone is trying to sell for well under their nominal value, but they'll probably be items the PCs don't want either; finding used items that you actually want is going to be a substantial hassle.
The usual problem with selling magic items is that it the demand for a lot of items is pretty low. If you actually hire an enchanter to make you an item its going to run you the cost of production plus labor and markup, but for already made items you need to find a buyer or a seller. When selling, trying to sell quickly will probably result in a value that's well below the new cost, and finding buyer willing to pay more may well take a very long time. When buying, there's a fair chance that there's some magic items out there that someone is trying to sell for well under their nominal value, but they'll probably be items the PCs don't want either; finding used items that you actually want is going to be a substantial hassle.
Yeah, same with pawn shops. Demand is pretty low for 2nd hand stuff. Here are my suggestions from real world experience in pawn shops.
For something like precious metals - they have a standard discount off of published bulk prices. $X per ounce. Think of that like potions of healing and water related stuff at a large port town.
Pawn shops typically are willing to pay 50% of what they expect to get for selling the item. Yeah, exactly the same as what is suggested. They might offer 40% originally and you might get 55%, but not much more than that unless they personally want to own that item.
Buying is actually easier to haggle. If the item has been sitting with them for a while and you want to buy it, you could get a 10%-20% discount when buying.
----------------
Someone asked about scrolls. The scroll prices in the official DND books are freaking stupid. A prime example is that it costs 250k gp to scribe a 9th level spell - but you can only sell them for 100k gp. Yes, it costs your more than 2x the amount to make it as to sell. I could see making it the same price so you can't make a profit, but 2.5 x cost to make ? NOPE.
Meanwhile, you can make a 1st level Feather Fall scroll for 25 gp and sell it for 100 gp.
Keep in mind that Wizard scrolls are a primary way to learn Wizard spells and there is no limit to how many spells they can learn. Wizards should EASILY be able to sell scrolls they make and the price should be based almost entirely on level.
There is no reason the merchants need to follow the rulebook. I mean in the real world, when do they ever?
I mean, there’s no reason that a retailer even has to charge the same price for two different +1 daggers.
”Well, you can tell by the owlbear hide wrap and matching sheath, with the gold stitching, not to mention the beautiful gem mounted in the pommel that this one is far more elegant. I can sell the other one for 450gp, but I cannot let this one go for less than 575gp.”
Saltmarsh also have a broker available and sets out item pricing and time for your order to come in etc. Being able to order items and have them makes for a significantly different experience from a usual RAW adventure. Not better, not worse, just different.
I do like the sane magical prices though - that would be my go to for pricing.
I mean, there’s no reason that a retailer even has to charge the same price for two different +1 daggers.
Consistent prices are mostly for things with fairly high demand and multiple sellers. Relative to cost of living, Uncommon personal items are in the price range for a decent used car, rarer stuff is in the realm of real estate and collectors items, all of which have pretty variable prices.
I mean, there’s no reason that a retailer even has to charge the same price for two different +1 daggers.
Consistent prices are mostly for things with fairly high demand and multiple sellers.
Right, like common potions, scrolls, (and in my world crystals) and maybe some ammo too. And maybe some of the less impactful common items too.Most of that will be in the 50-250gp range. As long as your fairly consistent the players won’t care if they paid 100gp one time and 115 the next time as long as they have their Pole of Collapsing. And if they do question it, “All prices are subject to change without notice.”
I mean, there’s no reason that a retailer even has to charge the same price for two different +1 daggers.
Consistent prices are mostly for things with fairly high demand and multiple sellers. Relative to cost of living, Uncommon personal items are in the price range for a decent used car, rarer stuff is in the realm of real estate and collectors items, all of which have pretty variable prices.
Almost correct. Consistent prices are not dependent on high demand or multiple sellers, but on consistent supply.
One of a kind stuff are priced fairly unpredictably. But things that are basically identical, such as beenie babies in perfect condition, real estate in the same neighborhood/planned community/building, new cars (yeah, car salesman do a lot of talking for 1% differences) have pretty consistent prices at any given time. Yes, over time the prices change, but at any given time they are consistent.
Real Estate for example has a pretty solid rule of $X/ square foot in a neighborhood. Use Zillow, pick any high building in NYC and compare say Apartment 1C (first floor) with Apartment 2C. 2C will be a certain $Z higher than 1C. Then look at 3C, it will be $Z more than 2C. Then look at 4C, it will be $Z more than 3C. Unless the condo floorplan changes, of course.
I have a deck of magic item cards. When they go to a shop, I fan the deck out and depending on the size of the city, I tell them they can pick a number of cards at random, and that is what the shop has in stock. It might be amazing, it might not, but it's always fun. I also do the same thing with treasure hordes that might realistically have just about anything in it (like a dragon hoard).
I price what I want, when I want, how I want and if I want.
That's really what it boils down to. 5e really has no good system for the creation of magic items or the sale of magic items, and if you look at the "official guidelines" of a high magic campaign per the DMG a level 17th "starting" character is supposed to start with three uncommon magic items, two rare items, and one very rare item. That's it. A 10th level character? One uncommon item. That just does not feel right to me. So when I look at magic shops or maybe other adventuring groups selling items I think of three things:
Is this a fun item for my characters? Is this going to be inherently unbalanced? Is the thing used more than once or is it a gimmick?
I might roll some random items on it but before I give my players the option of it I decide if it's broken or not but some items are just out of bounds. No luck blades, no ring of three wishes, no amulet of the planes, etc. They might get those items as big rewards of a long quest chain or after a mega boss fight but you aren't going to find those in random shop #253. Sometimes I just make fun items that are stupid but someone is like YES. I once sold a hole in the wall. It was just a magic hole. It had moss in it. You could fit a pouch in the hole, and move it onto other surfaces. It wasn't a portable hole or a bag of holding of type of quality, It was just a hole that hid a pouch in it. I had a rogue buy it for 2000 gold because it became his ultimate hiding spot for his small gems.
I also try to handle shopping between sessions on Discord. Gives players a chance to talk it out but at the same time not take two hours at the table arguing over who gets the Longsword +1.
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I'm looking at the rules for buying and selling magic items in Xanthar's Guide and I am thinking of using that as a baseline for selling magic items in tow and cities.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/xgte/downtime-revisited#SellingaMagicItem.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/xgte/downtime-revisited#BuyingaMagicItem
I'm curious to hear how DMs manages the task of selling magical items and do you do anything different for purchasing magic items?
I break the rules. In large towns frequented by Adventurers and most cities in my campaign world there are “Brokers.” Basically pawn/consignment shops for magic items. The Brokers in a large town might have a selection of common magic items up to uncommon in a bigger city. For anything more powerful than that they would have to go to a specific Auction in the Capital.
The purchase price for basic common items (Pole of Collapsing for example) the purchase price might be 100ish gp, for something like a Dagger, +1 it would be closer to 500 gp. The price they might sell them for would be somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 the purchase price depending on opposed checks.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
I use the Sane Magic Pricing Guide for prices. The rules in the book suck. In particular the Scroll prices are ridiculous.
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?424243-Sane-Magic-Item-Prices
Players sell most items at 1/2 the price. Making it costs 1/2 the price as well (when you make to order you get 3/4 when you sell it to a merchant)
If you don't mind me asking what is wrong with the scroll prices?
So you use elements of the Xanathar's Guild rules is that what I'm reading?
Not quite. Official sources dissuade DMs from having anything like “magic shoppes” in D&D. They hates it.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
Yeah, one of our DMs is very opposed to diverse magic shops. There are some people that sell items, but usually we get a list of available things. Most of it trash we aren't going to buy with a few "gems' in the mix. And we never can get more than one item of the same kind... so whoever gets the Ring of Protection... good luck! In the end we find a few things, but it is a very low magic campaign any time he runs a system. I tend to limit bazaar shopping to very large towns with some random items sprinkled in along the way, but if you want something, let me know and I'll find a guy to find a guy to get back with you... on Tuesday. Pricing can be one of the most frustrating things. You almost need a spreadsheet so you can keep up with how much they got what items for in what location just so you can be realistic in your own fantasy world. I do understand the price range mechanic, but it can just take so much extra time as a DM to try to balance pricing if you are looking at a wider selection.
All prices subject to change without notice.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
My problem with XGE is that the crafting/buying/selling rules don't all fit together very well - especially when your character is in a city like Waterdeep with downtime and you're talking mundane/common/uncommon items that have a decent market. the idea that you can sell something for a significantly different price than you can buy it (haggling excluded), or that you would craft something and be stuck with a sell price less than that materials cost - in a city environment with with real supply and demand - is silly.
...so i just look at the crafting table and say buy/sell prices are 10% higher than those prices when you're in a city. The only variables are the multiplier and the raw material price (big city i go by XGE, small town/villages are on a case-by-case basis if they can be bought/sold at all - the easy rule use is if the raw materials couldn't be purchased in that environment, you won't find a buyer or a seller either.
and i no longer allow anyone to buy or create a robe of useful items....because buying an item for 100-600 gp (or crafting for 200 gp) and then dumping the pockets and selling the contents for theoretically up to 16,000 gp (if you're dumblucky - but still a couple thousand if you're okaylucky) is bananas.
D&D lottery = buying a robe of useful items for 2,000 gp...heck with scratchers.
Edit: with my bad math, a robe of useful items will, on average, produce 1,903.16 gp in goods...assuming the going rate for a peon to dig a 10' hole is 5 sp. (which tells me it should be rare).
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
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Deck of Decks
The usual problem with selling magic items is that it the demand for a lot of items is pretty low. If you actually hire an enchanter to make you an item its going to run you the cost of production plus labor and markup, but for already made items you need to find a buyer or a seller. When selling, trying to sell quickly will probably result in a value that's well below the new cost, and finding buyer willing to pay more may well take a very long time. When buying, there's a fair chance that there's some magic items out there that someone is trying to sell for well under their nominal value, but they'll probably be items the PCs don't want either; finding used items that you actually want is going to be a substantial hassle.
Yeah, same with pawn shops. Demand is pretty low for 2nd hand stuff. Here are my suggestions from real world experience in pawn shops.
For something like precious metals - they have a standard discount off of published bulk prices. $X per ounce. Think of that like potions of healing and water related stuff at a large port town.
Pawn shops typically are willing to pay 50% of what they expect to get for selling the item. Yeah, exactly the same as what is suggested. They might offer 40% originally and you might get 55%, but not much more than that unless they personally want to own that item.
Buying is actually easier to haggle. If the item has been sitting with them for a while and you want to buy it, you could get a 10%-20% discount when buying.
----------------
Someone asked about scrolls. The scroll prices in the official DND books are freaking stupid. A prime example is that it costs 250k gp to scribe a 9th level spell - but you can only sell them for 100k gp. Yes, it costs your more than 2x the amount to make it as to sell. I could see making it the same price so you can't make a profit, but 2.5 x cost to make ? NOPE.
Meanwhile, you can make a 1st level Feather Fall scroll for 25 gp and sell it for 100 gp.
Keep in mind that Wizard scrolls are a primary way to learn Wizard spells and there is no limit to how many spells they can learn. Wizards should EASILY be able to sell scrolls they make and the price should be based almost entirely on level.
That’s why I use “Brokers” instead of Magic Shoppes. The Brokers are Pawn/Consignment businesses.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
^^^^ This.
There is no reason the merchants need to follow the rulebook. I mean in the real world, when do they ever?
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I mean, there’s no reason that a retailer even has to charge the same price for two different +1 daggers.
”Well, you can tell by the owlbear hide wrap and matching sheath, with the gold stitching, not to mention the beautiful gem mounted in the pommel that this one is far more elegant. I can sell the other one for 450gp, but I cannot let this one go for less than 575gp.”
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
Agreeing with all of the above.
Saltmarsh also have a broker available and sets out item pricing and time for your order to come in etc. Being able to order items and have them makes for a significantly different experience from a usual RAW adventure. Not better, not worse, just different.
I do like the sane magical prices though - that would be my go to for pricing.
Consistent prices are mostly for things with fairly high demand and multiple sellers. Relative to cost of living, Uncommon personal items are in the price range for a decent used car, rarer stuff is in the realm of real estate and collectors items, all of which have pretty variable prices.
Right, like common potions, scrolls, (and in my world crystals) and maybe some ammo too. And maybe some of the less impactful common items too.Most of that will be in the 50-250gp range. As long as your fairly consistent the players won’t care if they paid 100gp one time and 115 the next time as long as they have their Pole of Collapsing. And if they do question it, “All prices are subject to change without notice.”
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
Almost correct. Consistent prices are not dependent on high demand or multiple sellers, but on consistent supply.
One of a kind stuff are priced fairly unpredictably. But things that are basically identical, such as beenie babies in perfect condition, real estate in the same neighborhood/planned community/building, new cars (yeah, car salesman do a lot of talking for 1% differences) have pretty consistent prices at any given time. Yes, over time the prices change, but at any given time they are consistent.
Real Estate for example has a pretty solid rule of $X/ square foot in a neighborhood. Use Zillow, pick any high building in NYC and compare say Apartment 1C (first floor) with Apartment 2C. 2C will be a certain $Z higher than 1C. Then look at 3C, it will be $Z more than 2C. Then look at 4C, it will be $Z more than 3C. Unless the condo floorplan changes, of course.
I have a deck of magic item cards. When they go to a shop, I fan the deck out and depending on the size of the city, I tell them they can pick a number of cards at random, and that is what the shop has in stock. It might be amazing, it might not, but it's always fun. I also do the same thing with treasure hordes that might realistically have just about anything in it (like a dragon hoard).
I price what I want, when I want, how I want and if I want.
That's really what it boils down to. 5e really has no good system for the creation of magic items or the sale of magic items, and if you look at the "official guidelines" of a high magic campaign per the DMG a level 17th "starting" character is supposed to start with three uncommon magic items, two rare items, and one very rare item. That's it. A 10th level character? One uncommon item. That just does not feel right to me. So when I look at magic shops or maybe other adventuring groups selling items I think of three things:
Is this a fun item for my characters? Is this going to be inherently unbalanced? Is the thing used more than once or is it a gimmick?
I might roll some random items on it but before I give my players the option of it I decide if it's broken or not but some items are just out of bounds. No luck blades, no ring of three wishes, no amulet of the planes, etc. They might get those items as big rewards of a long quest chain or after a mega boss fight but you aren't going to find those in random shop #253. Sometimes I just make fun items that are stupid but someone is like YES. I once sold a hole in the wall. It was just a magic hole. It had moss in it. You could fit a pouch in the hole, and move it onto other surfaces. It wasn't a portable hole or a bag of holding of type of quality, It was just a hole that hid a pouch in it. I had a rogue buy it for 2000 gold because it became his ultimate hiding spot for his small gems.
I also try to handle shopping between sessions on Discord. Gives players a chance to talk it out but at the same time not take two hours at the table arguing over who gets the Longsword +1.