so the rules state that if you cast a spell with a bonus action you cannot cast a spell with your action unless it is a cantrip, so my question is, what if my players cast, lets say a level 1 cure wounds spell as an action first then try to cast another level 1 healing word spell as a bonus action, how would that work?
Cantrips are relatively simple things not unlike weapon attacks to a martial character. They’ve done them so often they could it in their sleep. A leveled spell o the other hand....
so the rules state that if you cast a spell with a bonus action you cannot cast a spell with your action unless it is a cantrip, so my question is, what if my players cast, lets say a level 1 cure wounds spell as an action first then try to cast another level 1 healing word spell as a bonus action, how would that work?
The order of the actions doesn't matter; if you cast a leveled spell with your action you cannot cast a bonus action spell.
The only limit on spell casting is that IF you cast ANY spell (including a cantrip) as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action.
Order isn't important. If you cast cure wounds using an action then you can't cast a bonus action spell at all since it breaks the above restriction.
If you are a multiclassed caster with Action surge you can cast two leveled spells using the Cast a Spell action on your turn. However, you can not cast a bonus action spell. On the other hand, if the same character cast a bonus action spell they could then action surge to cast two more spells but both have to be cantrips with a casting time of one action.
There are NO rules that limit the number of spells that you can cast on a turn. The only rule is that IF a character casts a spell as a bonus action then any other spells cast on that turn can only be cantrips with a casting time of one action. Remember too that cantrips are spells so if you cast a bonus action cantrip then all other spells cast on that turn can only be cantrips with a casting time of one action.
Examples: (order is not relevant in any of these examples - however, if a sorcerer wants to quicken a spell and cast a cantrip then they need to quicken the leveled spell and not the cantrip)
Healing word + cantrip - OK
cure wounds + healing word - NO (order is not important)
Fireball, action surge Fireball - OK
Fireball action surge Fireball, quickened firebolt - NO
quickened Fireball, firebolt - OK
quickened firebolt, Fireball - NO
quickened eldritch blast, eldritch blast, action surge eldritch blast - OK (good for a fighter/warlock/sorcerer multiclass)
There is some debate about the "The only limit on spell casting is that IF you cast ANY spell (including a cantrip) as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action."
The known issues with this are:
Action Surge. As per Sage Advice etc. A fighter that can cast spells can cast 2 by using Action Surge, and neither has to be a cantrip. The debate is if they cast a third spell by using a Bonus Action, does that mean they can cast 1 Bonus Action levelled spell, 1 cantrip and another levelled spell? Or must it be 1 Bonus Action levelled spell and 2 cantrip.
Reactions. You are definitely allowed to use a reaction on your turn, the most common one being Counterspelling a counterspell. That is, you cast Lightning Lure (Cantrip), someone else Counter spells you then you Counterspell them. Once again, that is a leveled spell and a cantrip. That is definitely allowed. But the question becomes, after you have lightning lured someone into the deadly trap, and used your reaction to Counter the Counter, can you then, as a Bonus Action, cast Misty Step to escape the trap yourself.
There is some debate about the "The only limit on spell casting is that IF you cast ANY spell (including a cantrip) as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action."
The known issues with this are:
Action Surge. As per Sage Advice etc. A fighter that can cast spells can cast 2 by using Action Surge, and neither has to be a cantrip. The debate is if they cast a third spell by using a Bonus Action, does that mean they can cast 1 Bonus Action levelled spell, 1 cantrip and another levelled spell? Or must it be 1 Bonus Action levelled spell and 2 cantrip.
Reactions. You are definitely allowed to use a reaction on your turn, the most common one being Counterspelling a counterspell. That is, you cast Lightning Lure (Cantrip), someone else Counter spells you then you Counterspell them. Once again, that is a leveled spell and a cantrip. That is definitely allowed. But the question becomes, after you have lightning lured someone into the deadly trap, and used your reaction to Counter the Counter, can you then, as a Bonus Action, cast Misty Step to escape the trap yourself.
I don't think there's any debate at all. The ruling about spell casting is simple.
So action surge adds another action to your current turn, so the bonus action spell rule still applies.
If you use your reaction on your own turn, then the bonus action spell rule still applies.
There is some debate about the "The only limit on spell casting is that IF you cast ANY spell (including a cantrip) as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action."
The known issues with this are:
Action Surge. As per Sage Advice etc. A fighter that can cast spells can cast 2 by using Action Surge, and neither has to be a cantrip. The debate is if they cast a third spell by using a Bonus Action, does that mean they can cast 1 Bonus Action levelled spell, 1 cantrip and another levelled spell? Or must it be 1 Bonus Action levelled spell and 2 cantrip.
Reactions. You are definitely allowed to use a reaction on your turn, the most common one being Counterspelling a counterspell. That is, you cast Lightning Lure (Cantrip), someone else Counter spells you then you Counterspell them. Once again, that is a leveled spell and a cantrip. That is definitely allowed. But the question becomes, after you have lightning lured someone into the deadly trap, and used your reaction to Counter the Counter, can you then, as a Bonus Action, cast Misty Step to escape the trap yourself.
Neither of those are questions; RAW is quite clear.
It must be one bonus action spell and two cantrips.
No; counterspell is not a cantrip with a casting time of one action, so you may not use misty step during the same turn.
thank you all for your clarification, luckily none of my players are fighters that can cast so i dont need to worry about the action surge debate for now but its nice to have that in the back of my mind, my group has two clerics, one of which multiclassed into bard, one sorcerer and one warlock esk blood hunter, along with a fighter/barbarian so i have been letting them get away with alot of illegal spellcasting lol but from what im gathering, its one leveled spell then forced to use cantrips afterwards regardless of order casted, so bonus action leveled spell, action cantrip OR leveled action spell, cantrip bonus action
thank you all for your clarification, luckily none of my players are fighters that can cast so i dont need to worry about the action surge debate for now but its nice to have that in the back of my mind, my group has two clerics, one of which multiclassed into bard, one sorcerer and one warlock esk blood hunter, along with a fighter/barbarian so i have been letting them get away with alot of illegal spellcasting lol but from what im gathering, its one leveled spell then forced to use cantrips afterwards regardless of order casted, so bonus action leveled spell, action cantrip OR leveled action spell, cantrip bonus action
No. "leveled action spell, cantrip bonus action" is NOT allowed by RAW. As DM you can rule however you want.
The rule is "If you cast ANY spell as a bonus action, ANY other spells cast on the same turn MUST be cantrips with a casting time of one action". Remember that a cantrip IS a spell.
If you cast a cantrip spell as a bonus action then ANY other spells cast that turn have to be cantrips with a casting time of one action. So, "leveled action spell, bonus action cantrip" is NOT a valid choice RAW (up to you as DM if you want to choose to change it).
The easy way to look at it ...
Did the character cast ANY bonus action spell first? Then all they can cast using their action(s) are Cantrips.
Did the character cast a leveled spell as an action first? Then they CAN NOT cast a bonus action spell at all.
Did the character cast a cantrip as an action first? Then they CAN cast ANY bonus action spell.
---
P.S. Extending the above to a character with action surge and more than one action in a turn.
Did the character cast ANY bonus action spell first? Then all they can cast using their action(s) are Cantrips.
Did the character cast a leveled spell for either or both of their actions first? Then they CAN NOT cast a bonus action spell at all.
Did the character only cast cantrips for both their actions first? Then they CAN cast ANY bonus action spell.
IF a character casts a bonus action spell - ANY other spells that are cast on their turn, before of after the bonus action spell, MUST be cantrips with a casting time of one action. Casting anything except a cantrip as an action will prevent the character from casting a bonus action spell in the same turn.
Finally, the same applies to spells you cast as a reaction on YOUR turn. For example, if you cast healing word as a bonus action and an opponent casts counterspell, you can NOT cast counterspell on their counterspell in response because it is NOT a cantrip with a casting time of one action.
You have it correct. However, a quick filter check of DDB shows a whopping TWO cantrip spells that can be cast as bonus actions (Shillelagh and Magic Stone). So realistically unless the Warlock casts Magic Stone or the Sorcerer decides to Quicken a cantrip, you're not going to be having them casting level 1+ spells as an action and then a Cantrip as a B.A. Nearly all the time, the leveled spell is the B.A., and the cantrip will be the action.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
You have it correct. However, a quick filter check of DDB shows a whopping TWO cantrip spells that can be cast as bonus actions (Shillelagh and Magic Stone). So realistically unless the Warlock casts Magic Stone or the Sorcerer decides to Quicken a cantrip, you're not going to be having them casting level 1+ spells as an action and then a Cantrip as a B.A. Nearly all the time, the leveled spell is the B.A., and the cantrip will be the action.
Hi! I'm just trying to work out who you are agreeing with :)
If you cast a bonus action cantrip then the ONLY spells you can cast as an action are cantrips with a casting time of one action. You CAN'T cast a bonus action cantrip and a leveled spell as an action, Cantrips ARE spells - so casting anything as a bonus action (cantrip or leveled spell since BOTH are spells) prevents casting a leveled spell as the action.
For example: A cleric with Magic Initiate Druid and the shillelagh cantrip can not (RAW) cast shillelagh and spirit guardians on the same turn.
so the rules state that if you cast a spell with a bonus action you cannot cast a spell with your action unless it is a cantrip, so my question is, what if my players cast, lets say a level 1 cure wounds spell as an action first then try to cast another level 1 healing word spell as a bonus action, how would that work?
As a general rule, you can only cast one spell per turn. (As opposed to a Cantrip)
If you cast either Healing Word or Cure Wounds, you can not cast the other, regardless of order.
One exception to this is the Fighter's Action Surge feature.
thank you for that clarification, so long story short, spells that have a level, one per turn but cantrips for days then lol
Cantrips are relatively simple things not unlike weapon attacks to a martial character. They’ve done them so often they could it in their sleep. A leveled spell o the other hand....
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The order of the actions doesn't matter; if you cast a leveled spell with your action you cannot cast a bonus action spell.
There is no such rule, though action economy and the bonus action spell rule means this is usually true.
The only limit on spell casting is that IF you cast ANY spell (including a cantrip) as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action.
Order isn't important. If you cast cure wounds using an action then you can't cast a bonus action spell at all since it breaks the above restriction.
If you are a multiclassed caster with Action surge you can cast two leveled spells using the Cast a Spell action on your turn. However, you can not cast a bonus action spell. On the other hand, if the same character cast a bonus action spell they could then action surge to cast two more spells but both have to be cantrips with a casting time of one action.
There are NO rules that limit the number of spells that you can cast on a turn. The only rule is that IF a character casts a spell as a bonus action then any other spells cast on that turn can only be cantrips with a casting time of one action. Remember too that cantrips are spells so if you cast a bonus action cantrip then all other spells cast on that turn can only be cantrips with a casting time of one action.
Examples: (order is not relevant in any of these examples - however, if a sorcerer wants to quicken a spell and cast a cantrip then they need to quicken the leveled spell and not the cantrip)
Healing word + cantrip - OK
cure wounds + healing word - NO (order is not important)
Fireball, action surge Fireball - OK
Fireball action surge Fireball, quickened firebolt - NO
quickened Fireball, firebolt - OK
quickened firebolt, Fireball - NO
quickened eldritch blast, eldritch blast, action surge eldritch blast - OK (good for a fighter/warlock/sorcerer multiclass)
There is some debate about the "The only limit on spell casting is that IF you cast ANY spell (including a cantrip) as a bonus action, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips with a casting time of one action."
The known issues with this are:
I don't think there's any debate at all. The ruling about spell casting is simple.
So action surge adds another action to your current turn, so the bonus action spell rule still applies.
If you use your reaction on your own turn, then the bonus action spell rule still applies.
Neither of those are questions; RAW is quite clear.
thank you all for your clarification, luckily none of my players are fighters that can cast so i dont need to worry about the action surge debate for now but its nice to have that in the back of my mind, my group has two clerics, one of which multiclassed into bard, one sorcerer and one warlock esk blood hunter, along with a fighter/barbarian so i have been letting them get away with alot of illegal spellcasting lol but from what im gathering, its one leveled spell then forced to use cantrips afterwards regardless of order casted, so bonus action leveled spell, action cantrip OR leveled action spell, cantrip bonus action
No. "leveled action spell, cantrip bonus action" is NOT allowed by RAW. As DM you can rule however you want.
The rule is "If you cast ANY spell as a bonus action, ANY other spells cast on the same turn MUST be cantrips with a casting time of one action". Remember that a cantrip IS a spell.
If you cast a cantrip spell as a bonus action then ANY other spells cast that turn have to be cantrips with a casting time of one action. So, "leveled action spell, bonus action cantrip" is NOT a valid choice RAW (up to you as DM if you want to choose to change it).
The easy way to look at it ...
Did the character cast ANY bonus action spell first? Then all they can cast using their action(s) are Cantrips.
Did the character cast a leveled spell as an action first? Then they CAN NOT cast a bonus action spell at all.
Did the character cast a cantrip as an action first? Then they CAN cast ANY bonus action spell.
---
P.S. Extending the above to a character with action surge and more than one action in a turn.
Did the character cast ANY bonus action spell first? Then all they can cast using their action(s) are Cantrips.
Did the character cast a leveled spell for either or both of their actions first? Then they CAN NOT cast a bonus action spell at all.
Did the character only cast cantrips for both their actions first? Then they CAN cast ANY bonus action spell.
IF a character casts a bonus action spell - ANY other spells that are cast on their turn, before of after the bonus action spell, MUST be cantrips with a casting time of one action. Casting anything except a cantrip as an action will prevent the character from casting a bonus action spell in the same turn.
Finally, the same applies to spells you cast as a reaction on YOUR turn. For example, if you cast healing word as a bonus action and an opponent casts counterspell, you can NOT cast counterspell on their counterspell in response because it is NOT a cantrip with a casting time of one action.
You have it correct. However, a quick filter check of DDB shows a whopping TWO cantrip spells that can be cast as bonus actions (Shillelagh and Magic Stone). So realistically unless the Warlock casts Magic Stone or the Sorcerer decides to Quicken a cantrip, you're not going to be having them casting level 1+ spells as an action and then a Cantrip as a B.A. Nearly all the time, the leveled spell is the B.A., and the cantrip will be the action.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Hi! I'm just trying to work out who you are agreeing with :)
If you cast a bonus action cantrip then the ONLY spells you can cast as an action are cantrips with a casting time of one action. You CAN'T cast a bonus action cantrip and a leveled spell as an action, Cantrips ARE spells - so casting anything as a bonus action (cantrip or leveled spell since BOTH are spells) prevents casting a leveled spell as the action.
For example: A cleric with Magic Initiate Druid and the shillelagh cantrip can not (RAW) cast shillelagh and spirit guardians on the same turn.