so this might sound dumb or like it has an obvious answer but im just curious and searching the internet so far has lead to nothing..
Here is my question: say i wanna use Alchemist's Fire, or Acid Vials with spells like Conjure Barrage. would that work? ive seen people say both yes and no so i just kinda want a democratic vote style of yes's and no's.
here is my reasoning to vote for "yes" (i hope thats the answer i get btw). so in the spells like Conjure Barrage or Magical Weapon, they list the target of the spell as a "weapon" it doesnt specify that it must be "martial" or "Simple", as such it also does not specify that it cant be "improvised". furthermore, in the PH descriptions on how to use Acid Vials and Alchemist's Fires it states the ranged attack is to be functioning as an "improvised" weapon.
one reasoning ive heard for "no" is that other spells such as Catapult state specifically "objects" to be the target. and since these items are ALWAYS classified and objects, but ONLY specified and improvised weapons in specific cases they should be treated as the constant form rather than the temporary.
The thing is that Alchemist's Fire is an adventure gear, not a weapon. But even if it were the case, improvised weapon is not a category of weapons, it is just a method for the DM to determine attack and damage roll with an object not meant to be used as a weapon.
Alchemist's Fire and Acid Vials are neither weapons nor ammunition, as per the spell's description (Conjure Barrage). It also doesn't really make sense to do this, given that it does a standard amount of damage rather than replicating the effect of Alchemist's Fire on every target you hit - at best, a DM would allow you to waste your 25-50gp item and cast the spell with fire/acid damage, but that's all it could ever conceivably do if homeruled to work with those items, unless you're going to rewrite the whole spell itself.
I'm of the mind that anything can be a weapon in any given situation. Even if improvised. That said, even if you allow a substitution for the material component, that's not going to change the damage output. 3d6 damage isn't that extraordinary, and making that damage fire, acid or poison isn't that huge of a deal in most cases.
If I was going to say no to this scenario, I'd deny it based more on the fact that ranger spells are a form of druidic nature magic, and alchemist fire / vials of acid are kind of out of theme, whereas replicating stones, arrows, knives, etc all do fit.
I'd be a little wary about treating anything as a weapon, despite how much I'm now thinking of using Conjure Barrage with bullet ants or something... >.>
I can't think of any reason that it would be bad to do so, honestly. Conjure Barrage doesn't change its damage, depending on what you throw. Damage type, sure, but that's generally not a big deal.
I can't think of any reason that it would be bad to do so, honestly. Conjure Barrage doesn't change its damage, depending on what you throw. Damage type, sure, but that's generally not a big deal.
Mostly it opens the door for players to try to use features like Kensei Weapons and Pact Weapon with silly things like chairs. Really not worth the hassle of figuring out if any of the dozen class features and spells that are meant to be used with weapons will break when used with other things.
I can't think of any reason that it would be bad to do so, honestly. Conjure Barrage doesn't change its damage, depending on what you throw. Damage type, sure, but that's generally not a big deal.
Mostly it opens the door for players to try to use features like Kensei Weapons and Pact Weapon with silly things like chairs. Really not worth the hassle of figuring out if any of the dozen class features and spells that are meant to be used with weapons will break when used with other things.
If you really, really wanted to pick "chair" for your weapon... its kinda silly, and I would probably smack you for trying to make a joke character if it wasn't a joke game, but I fail to see how that would negatively impact the game beyond hurting immersion. And that's a player issue, I feel, not a mechanics issue.
The chair example was deliberately silly. In practice they'll probably choose an item they don't want to lose and that can be justified as an improvised weapon. That's really not what Weapon Bond is meant to be used for.
Again, I don''t see an issue with that. How is that so bad? I mean, heck, the overwhelming majority of items you don't want to lose are your Attuned equipment, your magic books, some precious memento that has little to no mechanical effect, and a temporary story McGuffin. The story McGuffin is the only potential problem, and its easy to accomplish still simply by saying that either the McGuffin can't be bonded (magical effect, or its alive, etc), or have the thief use Dispel Magic, or similar.
so this might sound dumb or like it has an obvious answer but im just curious and searching the internet so far has lead to nothing..
Here is my question: say i wanna use Alchemist's Fire, or Acid Vials with spells like Conjure Barrage. would that work? ive seen people say both yes and no so i just kinda want a democratic vote style of yes's and no's.
here is my reasoning to vote for "yes" (i hope thats the answer i get btw). so in the spells like Conjure Barrage or Magical Weapon, they list the target of the spell as a "weapon" it doesnt specify that it must be "martial" or "Simple", as such it also does not specify that it cant be "improvised". furthermore, in the PH descriptions on how to use Acid Vials and Alchemist's Fires it states the ranged attack is to be functioning as an "improvised" weapon.
one reasoning ive heard for "no" is that other spells such as Catapult state specifically "objects" to be the target. and since these items are ALWAYS classified and objects, but ONLY specified and improvised weapons in specific cases they should be treated as the constant form rather than the temporary.
what is your opinions?
The thing is that Alchemist's Fire is an adventure gear, not a weapon. But even if it were the case, improvised weapon is not a category of weapons, it is just a method for the DM to determine attack and damage roll with an object not meant to be used as a weapon.
Filcat is right.
Alchemist's Fire and Acid Vials are neither weapons nor ammunition, as per the spell's description (Conjure Barrage). It also doesn't really make sense to do this, given that it does a standard amount of damage rather than replicating the effect of Alchemist's Fire on every target you hit - at best, a DM would allow you to waste your 25-50gp item and cast the spell with fire/acid damage, but that's all it could ever conceivably do if homeruled to work with those items, unless you're going to rewrite the whole spell itself.
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My homebrew: [Subclasses] [Races] [Feats] [Discussion Thread]
I'm of the mind that anything can be a weapon in any given situation. Even if improvised. That said, even if you allow a substitution for the material component, that's not going to change the damage output. 3d6 damage isn't that extraordinary, and making that damage fire, acid or poison isn't that huge of a deal in most cases.
If I was going to say no to this scenario, I'd deny it based more on the fact that ranger spells are a form of druidic nature magic, and alchemist fire / vials of acid are kind of out of theme, whereas replicating stones, arrows, knives, etc all do fit.
I'd be a little wary about treating anything as a weapon, despite how much I'm now thinking of using Conjure Barrage with bullet ants or something... >.>
I can't think of any reason that it would be bad to do so, honestly. Conjure Barrage doesn't change its damage, depending on what you throw. Damage type, sure, but that's generally not a big deal.
The chair example was deliberately silly. In practice they'll probably choose an item they don't want to lose and that can be justified as an improvised weapon. That's really not what Weapon Bond is meant to be used for.
Again, I don''t see an issue with that. How is that so bad? I mean, heck, the overwhelming majority of items you don't want to lose are your Attuned equipment, your magic books, some precious memento that has little to no mechanical effect, and a temporary story McGuffin. The story McGuffin is the only potential problem, and its easy to accomplish still simply by saying that either the McGuffin can't be bonded (magical effect, or its alive, etc), or have the thief use Dispel Magic, or similar.
What about combining Conjure Barrage or Conjure Volley with the Hand Mortar which is a firearm that fires explosive ammunition?