In this popular combo, Wish basically changes the casting time of Simulacrum to 1 action instead of 12 hours (In addition to foregoing all magical components).
My question is that in the Simulacrum spell description it says : "You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell".
Does it mean that because the casting time became 1 action, the Simulacrum will exist only for 6 seconds ???
I looked everywhere and didn't find any ruling or topic tackling this question.
You mix casting time and duration. You have to shape for the whole casting time (with Wish: 6 seconds) but the duration is "until dispelled". So if you form a Simulacrum with a Wish spell you cast it in 6 seconds (in which you probably have to do lighnting fast shaping) and the Simulacrum will *poof* be there until dispelled. You could even argue that you don't even have to do the shaping as Wish brings stuff into existence with a word.
Oh thank you for the explanation. I misunderstood the spell.
So that means if I cast Simulacrum normally at 7th level, and take the 12 hours and pay the price, I'll have a clone indefinitely ? (Till it dies or gets dispelled of course)
Yes! Simulacrum is nuts! Bur remember the negative aspects of the spell... half the hp of the original creature and can't grow or recover in any significant way (no regaining spell slots or used up feature resources like ki points or superiority dice, and hp are expensive to replace).
RAW I believe you can make a small army, but the main limitation is spell slots. After you use your wish, your Simulcrum likely doesn't have any 9th level spell slots. It may have some seventh, but those will decrease with each copy as well.
Also each copy has half the HP max of the previous
RAW I believe you can make a small army, but the main limitation is spell slots. After you use your wish, your Simulcrum likely doesn't have any 9th level spell slots. It may have some seventh, but those will decrease with each copy as well.
Also each copy has half the HP max of the previous
Nah, I think RAW you can go full gremlins. If you have your 9th and 7th spell slots: you use your 7th to cast Simulacrum at full cost and over 12 hours. The result is a copy of yourself with all their slots except that 7th slot. You ask the copy to use wish to make a copy of yourself (not a copy of the copy). The next copy also has its 9th level slot because the original wizard still does. Repeat forever. Every copy is a free high-level wizard, half your hit points and hard to heal, but still a significant force. 10gp to dress each one with robe and staff and it's time to conquer the universe.
That being said, no DM in their right mind would allow this. The DM plays on behalf of the entire universe, and I would have had the whole army of wizards torn to shreds at around copy 7 as the fabric of reality violently reacted to the abuse it was taking. High level magic is a grave responsibility, not a toy.
I used the 9th slot for wish because of the huge mount of gp spend to make the copies.
And i agreed, no DM would allow this. Probably a Wizard Armada who investigate that kind of violation will pop in the gremlin wizard laboratory to stop him.
I used the 9th slot for wish because of the huge mount of gp spend to make the copies.
And i agreed, no DM would allow this. Probably a Wizard Armada who investigate that kind of violation will pop in the gremlin wizard laboratory to stop him.
But... in case of ultimate necessity...
Ah, if you use wish to create the copy, then you create a copy of a wizard who has just finished casting wish, so the copy has also lost its 9th level slot. If you happen to have two 9th slots then you can continue with the gremlin plan, but at risk of retaliation from the Interplanar Wizard Police...
It's an awesome spell especially when combined with Wish but as a DM I would rule that a simulacrum cannot create another simulacrum. Unless I was making a one-shot "anything goes" wild game purely for overpowered shenanigans for shits 'n' giggles. For any game played properly I would not allow it and anyone using the infinite wish/simulacrum loop are just trying to "win" a game that is not supposed to be "won".
It's an awesome spell especially when combined with Wish but as a DM I would rule that a simulacrum cannot create another simulacrum. Unless I was making a one-shot "anything goes" wild game purely for overpowered shenanigans for shits 'n' giggles. For any game played properly I would not allow it and anyone using the infinite wish/simulacrum loop are just trying to "win" a game that is not supposed to be "won".
Agreed. Personally I wouldn't even allow using wish to create a Simulacrum more than one without a significant (if non-monetary) penalty being paid. In my universe, using wish to create a Simulacrum creates the very same being every time, and the process of being created, torn apart, and reformed again turns out to be rather torturous for that being. After a few iterations the thing created will be a psychological mess, and not something you would be keen to be responsible for existing, let alone something you could trust to be helpful on your adventure. Similar penalties would apply to using wish to replace any very high cost spells repeatedly. My universe dislikes shortcuts...
It's an awesome spell especially when combined with Wish but as a DM I would rule that a simulacrum cannot create another simulacrum. Unless I was making a one-shot "anything goes" wild game purely for overpowered shenanigans for shits 'n' giggles. For any game played properly I would not allow it and anyone using the infinite wish/simulacrum loop are just trying to "win" a game that is not supposed to be "won".
Agreed. Personally I wouldn't even allow using wish to create a Simulacrum more than one without a significant (if non-monetary) penalty being paid. In my universe, using wish to create a Simulacrum creates the very same being every time, and the process of being created, torn apart, and reformed again turns out to be rather torturous for that being. After a few iterations the thing created will be a psychological mess, and not something you would be keen to be responsible for existing, let alone something you could trust to be helpful on your adventure. Similar penalties would apply to using wish to replace any very high cost spells repeatedly. My universe dislikes shortcuts...
Personally I think you're going too far with that. It essentially negates the point of why you take Wish in the first place. As the adventures continue the usefulness of Wish is ever diminishing by your rule while everyone else's 9th level spells / 17th+ character level abilities are far outmatching yours with their reliable use use and consistent worthiness.
They are using their only 9th level slot for the day to recreate an 8th level spell and in some cases negate the material cost (which by their level isn't a big deal anyway) and casting time (which, again, not a huge bonus by this stage). Sure it does allow some great and powerful combinations like refreshing your "second you" once per day, but the spellcaster can only have one simulacrum active at any time so it's not like they can maintain ones for everyone in the party. It's not overpowered. Powerful, yes, but not overly so.
Level 17+ characters are supposed to be powerful. They are supposed to be effectively demigods at this stage. In fact, in previous 4th Edition reaching last level literally meant ascension to Godhood. The battles that your party at level 17+ are world-shaking events which might very well determine the fate of the entire multiverse. An extra clone ain't a big deal.
Guys, guys, with Wish i can create one copy a day, some people in their downtime make magic items, other's make a personal guard of copies, they can be dormant until the time came, this could be a very nice twist in any battle of a campaign, the adventures are losing and the wizards with his final efforts teleport his side group of copies to help (or at least to make some cover fire).
Use the combo without being abusive could result in good plots and avoid deus ex machina.
You can use any part of any creature to make a copy of said creature with that spell. So whether or not you defeat a lich, so long as you come away with a single hair... the possibilities are limited only by your imagination... and your DM of course.
A simulacrum chain would be impractical. A simulacrum created by a simulacrum obeys its creator, not the creature it's an illusion of. Telling simulacrum A to tell simulacrum B to tell simulacrum C to do something is going to get unwieldy very quickly, and if A is destroyed or dispelled, B and C have no one controlling them. You're also going to run into logistical issues moving around since they're increasing the body count for your teleportation spells and any other form of travel powered by spells.
A simulacrum chain would be impractical. A simulacrum created by a simulacrum obeys its creator, not the creature it's an illusion of. Telling simulacrum A to tell simulacrum B to tell simulacrum C to do something is going to get unwieldy very quickly, and if A is destroyed or dispelled, B and C have no one controlling them. You're also going to run into logistical issues moving around since they're increasing the body count for your teleportation spells and any other form of travel powered by spells.
Things can go wrong and a wizard can lost control over the copies... but one copy of himself always can be a nice source of more spell slots. Especially if he have access to Spell Mastery and Signature Spells.
A simulacrum chain would be impractical. A simulacrum created by a simulacrum obeys its creator, not the creature it's an illusion of. Telling simulacrum A to tell simulacrum B to tell simulacrum C to do something is going to get unwieldy very quickly, and if A is destroyed or dispelled, B and C have no one controlling them. You're also going to run into logistical issues moving around since they're increasing the body count for your teleportation spells and any other form of travel powered by spells.
Moving around would be impractical, I agree. However, you could issue the command "Follow the orders of (Caladrel) as though they were me and issue your own simulacrum to repeat this command" or some other similar wording, and that will fix the other issue. With something like the Boon of High Magic, you won't need to worry about transporting it either, since you can get started (relatively) instantly from anywhere provided you keep your spell slots.
Hi guys,
In this popular combo, Wish basically changes the casting time of Simulacrum to 1 action instead of 12 hours (In addition to foregoing all magical components).
My question is that in the Simulacrum spell description it says : "You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell".
Does it mean that because the casting time became 1 action, the Simulacrum will exist only for 6 seconds ???
I looked everywhere and didn't find any ruling or topic tackling this question.
What do you think ?
Thanks
D.
You mix casting time and duration. You have to shape for the whole casting time (with Wish: 6 seconds) but the duration is "until dispelled". So if you form a Simulacrum with a Wish spell you cast it in 6 seconds (in which you probably have to do lighnting fast shaping) and the Simulacrum will *poof* be there until dispelled. You could even argue that you don't even have to do the shaping as Wish brings stuff into existence with a word.
Oh thank you for the explanation. I misunderstood the spell.
So that means if I cast Simulacrum normally at 7th level, and take the 12 hours and pay the price, I'll have a clone indefinitely ? (Till it dies or gets dispelled of course)
If that's the case, Simulacrum is nuts !
Yes! Simulacrum is nuts! Bur remember the negative aspects of the spell... half the hp of the original creature and can't grow or recover in any significant way (no regaining spell slots or used up feature resources like ki points or superiority dice, and hp are expensive to replace).
But even with these limitations, IT'S STILL NUTS!
"If you cast this spell again, any currently active duplicates you created with this spell are instantly destroyed."
If i make a copy of my self and comand the copy to cast another Wish and create one more copy... i can have a one man/mage army?
My copy casting the spell, and targeting me as a target of the spell, count as me casting the spell again?
I can populate the multiverse like a wet gremlin?
RAW I believe you can make a small army, but the main limitation is spell slots. After you use your wish, your Simulcrum likely doesn't have any 9th level spell slots. It may have some seventh, but those will decrease with each copy as well.
Also each copy has half the HP max of the previous
As duplicates of a wizard, with no gear and rapidly decreasing HP, they become pretty weak once they use their starting spell slots.
Fun power boost for a few days though
I used the 9th slot for wish because of the huge mount of gp spend to make the copies.
And i agreed, no DM would allow this. Probably a Wizard Armada who investigate that kind of violation will pop in the gremlin wizard laboratory to stop him.
But... in case of ultimate necessity...
It's an awesome spell especially when combined with Wish but as a DM I would rule that a simulacrum cannot create another simulacrum. Unless I was making a one-shot "anything goes" wild game purely for overpowered shenanigans for shits 'n' giggles. For any game played properly I would not allow it and anyone using the infinite wish/simulacrum loop are just trying to "win" a game that is not supposed to be "won".
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
Guys, guys, with Wish i can create one copy a day, some people in their downtime make magic items, other's make a personal guard of copies, they can be dormant until the time came, this could be a very nice twist in any battle of a campaign, the adventures are losing and the wizards with his final efforts teleport his side group of copies to help (or at least to make some cover fire).
Use the combo without being abusive could result in good plots and avoid deus ex machina.
You can use any part of any creature to make a copy of said creature with that spell. So whether or not you defeat a lich, so long as you come away with a single hair... the possibilities are limited only by your imagination... and your DM of course.
A simulacrum chain would be impractical. A simulacrum created by a simulacrum obeys its creator, not the creature it's an illusion of. Telling simulacrum A to tell simulacrum B to tell simulacrum C to do something is going to get unwieldy very quickly, and if A is destroyed or dispelled, B and C have no one controlling them. You're also going to run into logistical issues moving around since they're increasing the body count for your teleportation spells and any other form of travel powered by spells.
Moving around would be impractical, I agree. However, you could issue the command "Follow the orders of (Caladrel) as though they were me and issue your own simulacrum to repeat this command" or some other similar wording, and that will fix the other issue. With something like the Boon of High Magic, you won't need to worry about transporting it either, since you can get started (relatively) instantly from anywhere provided you keep your spell slots.