If you take the Magic Initiate Feat, as a non-spell caster, do you gain the ability to cast that level 1 spell, without a spell slot?
The wording is murky, and looking for a reference to use as to why they can use the spell without a spell slot. Artificer Initiate is similar, but specifies you can cast without using a spell slot, where this one is worded differently.
Magic Initiate: "Using this feat, you can cast the spell once at its lowest level, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again."
Artificer Initiate: "You can cast this feat’s 1st-level spell without a spell slot, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again."
The wording of the newer feats is to clarify that you can cast it again using a spell slot, afterwards. RAW, you cannot cast your Magic Initiate spells using your spell slots.
Yes you can cast the chosen spell once at its lowest level wether or not you have any spell slot and you can cast it again after you finish a long rest.
Yea. Unfortunately, my DM is looking for somewhere that officially it says it doesn't use a spell slot. The button to "Use" in DDB doesn't count.
There is no official answer to this question. Your DM can always try to email them for one at sageadvice@wizards.com as indicated by the Lead Developer
My understanding is that there are multiple ways that a spell can be cast and only some of those require using a spell slot.
The method of spell casting that we typically think of is when a character casts the spell themselves using a Class Feature. This almost always requires using a spell slot according to the general spellcasting rules:
Regardless of how many spells a caster knows or prepares, he or she can cast only a limited number of spells before resting.
. . .
When a character casts a spell, he or she expends a slot of that spell's level or higher, effectively "filling" a slot with the spell.
But even then, there are some exceptions as described in that same section:
Some characters and monsters have special abilities that let them cast spells without using spell slots. For example, a monk who follows the Way of the Four Elements, a warlock who chooses certain eldritch invocations, and a pit fiend from the Nine Hells can all cast spells in such a way.
Next, we have Cantrips, which do not require spell slots:
Cantrips
A cantrip is a spell that can be cast at will, without using a spell slot and without being prepared in advance.
There is also Ritual casting, which also does not use a spell slot:
Rituals
Certain spells have a special tag: ritual. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or the spell can be cast as a ritual. The ritual version of a spell takes 10 minutes longer to cast than normal. It also doesn't expend a spell slot
There are other ways that spells can be cast as well . . .
You can cast them directly from a spell scroll. This method also (correct me if I'm wrong) does not require using a spell slot.
You can cast them using a magic item such as a wand. Again, no spell slots required.
In fact, it seems that spell slots are only required when specifically using a Class Feature that explicitly requires it.
This finally brings us to the question in the OP:
Feats
A feat represents a talent or an area of expertise that gives a character special capabilities. It embodies training, experience, and abilities beyond what a class provides.
Following this same logic all the way through, if you are using a Feat to cast a spell then you are not using a Class Feature, you are using a Feat. It's a separate method of casting spells. Resources provided by Feats follow their own rules -- how often and how many times they can be used, when and how to recover them, and so on. So, using a Feat to cast a spell does not require using a spell slot unless it says so.
In particular, if it didn't give you the ability to cast the spell outside of the normal spell casting mechanics, it doesn't need the "Using this feat..." sentence at all. "In addition, choose one 1st-level spell to learn from that same list." would be sufficient.
Although it's not a very direct answer, there's an official Sage Advice ruling that implies you can use the feat to cast the spell without a spell slot.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Yea. Unfortunately, my DM is looking for somewhere that officially it says it doesn't use a spell slot. The button to "Use" in DDB doesn't count.
The official place is the feat itself saying it can be cast once. If he wants more then it's the SAC that Quar1on linked to that specifies how strictly limited it is to cast the spell with slots. If a DM doesn't allow casting the spell without slots then in many (most?) cases that 1st level spell cannot be cast at all, that doesn't seem very reasonable now does it.
I argued that the feat states it can be used once, and how by RAW, a spell does no more or less than the description, so with it not saying it requires a slot, it should be usable.
I took the advice to email Sage Advice, to see if they respond.
I argued that the feat states it can be used once, and how by RAW, a spell does no more or less than the description, so with it not saying it requires a slot, it should be usable.
I took the advice to email Sage Advice, to see if they respond.
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure there is no general rule that says casting a spell requires expending a spell slot. That’s a specific rule found within the Spellcasting feature of the classes that cast spells, which obviously does not apply to any spellcasting not done through a class’s Spellcasting feature.
Basically, your GM is looking at this backwards. They need to point to a rule that says the fest would require a slot.
Seriously, just ask your GM to show you anywhere in the book where it says casting a spell requires a slot. If they can find that outside of specific classes’ specific features, come back and we can dive into it a bit more.
Some characters and monsters have special abilities that let them cast spells without using spell slots. For example, a monk who follows the Way of the Four Elements, a warlock who chooses certain eldritch invocations, and a pit fiend from the Nine Hells can all cast spells in such a way.
If you take the Magic Initiate Feat, as a non-spell caster, do you gain the ability to cast that level 1 spell, without a spell slot?
The wording is murky, and looking for a reference to use as to why they can use the spell without a spell slot. Artificer Initiate is similar, but specifies you can cast without using a spell slot, where this one is worded differently.
Magic Initiate: "Using this feat, you can cast the spell once at its lowest level, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again."
Artificer Initiate: "You can cast this feat’s 1st-level spell without a spell slot, and you must finish a long rest before you can cast it in this way again."
Yes, it says you can cast it once, so you can.
The wording of the newer feats is to clarify that you can cast it again using a spell slot, afterwards. RAW, you cannot cast your Magic Initiate spells using your spell slots.
Yes you can cast the chosen spell once at its lowest level wether or not you have any spell slot and you can cast it again after you finish a long rest.
This spellcasting doesn't rely on spell slot.
Yea. Unfortunately, my DM is looking for somewhere that officially it says it doesn't use a spell slot. The button to "Use" in DDB doesn't count.
There is no official answer to this question. Your DM can always try to email them for one at sageadvice@wizards.com as indicated by the Lead Developer
My understanding is that there are multiple ways that a spell can be cast and only some of those require using a spell slot.
The method of spell casting that we typically think of is when a character casts the spell themselves using a Class Feature. This almost always requires using a spell slot according to the general spellcasting rules:
But even then, there are some exceptions as described in that same section:
Next, we have Cantrips, which do not require spell slots:
There is also Ritual casting, which also does not use a spell slot:
There are other ways that spells can be cast as well . . .
You can cast them directly from a spell scroll. This method also (correct me if I'm wrong) does not require using a spell slot.
You can cast them using a magic item such as a wand. Again, no spell slots required.
In fact, it seems that spell slots are only required when specifically using a Class Feature that explicitly requires it.
This finally brings us to the question in the OP:
Following this same logic all the way through, if you are using a Feat to cast a spell then you are not using a Class Feature, you are using a Feat. It's a separate method of casting spells. Resources provided by Feats follow their own rules -- how often and how many times they can be used, when and how to recover them, and so on. So, using a Feat to cast a spell does not require using a spell slot unless it says so.
What up2ng said.
In particular, if it didn't give you the ability to cast the spell outside of the normal spell casting mechanics, it doesn't need the "Using this feat..." sentence at all. "In addition, choose one 1st-level spell to learn from that same list." would be sufficient.
Although it's not a very direct answer, there's an official Sage Advice ruling that implies you can use the feat to cast the spell without a spell slot.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The official place is the feat itself saying it can be cast once. If he wants more then it's the SAC that Quar1on linked to that specifies how strictly limited it is to cast the spell with slots. If a DM doesn't allow casting the spell without slots then in many (most?) cases that 1st level spell cannot be cast at all, that doesn't seem very reasonable now does it.
Thank you all for the responses!
I argued that the feat states it can be used once, and how by RAW, a spell does no more or less than the description, so with it not saying it requires a slot, it should be usable.
I took the advice to email Sage Advice, to see if they respond.
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure there is no general rule that says casting a spell requires expending a spell slot. That’s a specific rule found within the Spellcasting feature of the classes that cast spells, which obviously does not apply to any spellcasting not done through a class’s Spellcasting feature.
Basically, your GM is looking at this backwards. They need to point to a rule that says the fest would require a slot.
Seriously, just ask your GM to show you anywhere in the book where it says casting a spell requires a slot. If they can find that outside of specific classes’ specific features, come back and we can dive into it a bit more.
You can point your DM to this: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#SpellSlots).
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Oh! I will definitely point that out. thank you!