One of the party ideas is to hide the magic circle under a rug if they can get the Hag to materialize from the Ethereal Plan to the Material Plane. So could a Magic Circle be hidden under something, or do the runes of the circle need to be exposed? As the DM, I'd allow it, as it's not something that could be abused, but I would like to get people's opinions.
It works on Supernatural. I’d allow it. They could also try putting it on the ceiling too (that also works on Supernatural), since who thinks to look up? As a DM I stick Ropers on ceilings all the time.
It works on Supernatural. I’d allow it. They could also try putting it on the ceiling too (that also works on Supernatural), since who thinks to look up? As a DM I stick Ropers on ceilings all the time.
Oh...that's a good idea. The group has not come up with that, but I see how that would work out.
Keep in mind the hags can still cast spells across the circle; it only debuffs attack rolls and blocks certain conditions.
Looking at this bullet point
When you cast this spell, you can elect to cause its magic to operate in the reverse direction, preventing a creature of the specified type from leaving the cylinder and protecting targets outside it.
What would be considered 'Protecting targets.'-- wouldn't it be protected from Spells?
Like Sposta said, the “protection” is only the effects already described earlier in the spell; really the circle loses a lot of effectiveness against anything with ranged options
Very few; anything that makes an attack roll will be at a disadvantage, and anything that inflicts charmed or frightened at the very least can’t apply the conditions. Like I said, the circle only fully traps a purely melee creature.
One of the party ideas is to hide the magic circle under a rug if they can get the Hag to materialize from the Ethereal Plan to the Material Plane. So could a Magic Circle be hidden under something, or do the runes of the circle need to be exposed? As the DM, I'd allow it, as it's not something that could be abused, but I would like to get people's opinions.
One thing I'd note is that the spell description says "Glowing runes appear wherever the cylinder intersects with the floor or other surface." Does the rug count as a surface?
Sorry, and it could be my own stupidity, but I'm not following what type of spells people outside the circle would be protected from.
If you reverse it, then whoever is inside the circle has disadvantage on attack rolls (which would include spells that use attack rolls) on creatures outside the circle, and targets outside the circle cannot be charmed, frightened or possessed.
People outside the circle would be somewhat protected against spells like acid arrow or chill touch because they require an attack roll, so the creature would have disadvantage on those attacks. They would also be completely protected against spells like cause fear and charm person because of the conditions they impose. However they would not be protected against spells like magic missile or fireball because they don’t require an attack roll, nor would they be protected against spells like hold person or blindness/deafness because the conditions they impose are not protected against, nor would they be protected against spells like bane which impose no condition, and the creature could also summon other creatures outside of the circle.
That’s why I homebrewed a “greater magic circle” at 5th-level which also grants protected creatures advantage on all saving throws forced by spells or other magical effects generated by an affected creature, and requires a successful save for an affected creature to summon something on the other side of the circle just like when attempting to teleport.
One of the party ideas is to hide the magic circle under a rug if they can get the Hag to materialize from the Ethereal Plan to the Material Plane. So could a Magic Circle be hidden under something, or do the runes of the circle need to be exposed? As the DM, I'd allow it, as it's not something that could be abused, but I would like to get people's opinions.
A Magic Circle creates a big cylinder of magical energy on the ground that can be physically crossed, so i assume placing an object on it has no effect whatsoever and the glowing runes that appear wherever the cylinder intersects with the floor or other surface such as the ceiling it reaches, if any, will still be there since nothing in the spell counter-indicate that.
It works on Supernatural. I’d allow it. They could also try putting it on the ceiling too (that also works on Supernatural), since who thinks to look up? As a DM I stick Ropers on ceilings all the time.
The Spell specifically originate on the ground.
''You create a 10-foot-radius, 20-foot-tall cylinder of magical energy centered on a point on the ground that you can see within range.''
Ohh 💩. If I wanna call the ceiling the “ground” in my campaign then I will. 😝 Besides, whether placed on the ceiling or the ground, the glowing tunes would appear on both surfaces anyway, so what’s the difference?
There are a couple of other problems with the plan that the DM would need to adjudicate. Keep in mind that you can always change up RAW for your game.
1) Reversing the spell. Does this actually reverse the spell OR does it completely prevent a creature of the specified type from leaving the cylinder?
"When you cast this spell, you can elect to cause its magic to operate in the reverse direction, preventing a creature of the specified type from leaving the cylinder and protecting targets outside it."
RAW - the spell allows a charisma save to leave it by magical means and a hag can go ethereal at will if they have their heartstone. A Magic Circle won't hold a hag for long since they get +3 on charisma saves and will be able to try to leave by becoming ethereal every round until they succeed (if the hag has been night haunting them then they will have a heartstone since it is needed to get to the ethereal plane to do that in the first place).
"The creature can’t willingly enter the cylinder by nonmagical means. If the creature tries to use teleportation or interplanar travel to do so, it must first succeed on a Charisma saving throw."
2) In terms of visibility. You can't hide the runes by putting them under a rug because the runes appear on any intersecting surfaces.
"You create a 10-foot-radius, 20-foot-tall cylinder of magical energy centered on a point on the ground that you can see within range. Glowing runes appear wherever the cylinder intersects with the floor or other surface."
The runes don't create the spell - they are a side effect of the magic of the spell and are visible.
P.S. If the party can get the hag to appear on the material plane then they might be better off trying to ambush the hag, grapple them, and have someone steal the heartstone, removing the ability of the hag to enter the ethereal plane at will. The hag can still use their 2 times/day Planeshift but it will limit them a bit. Night hags are very hard to pin down since they can go ethereal at will and still have Plane Shift in their back pocket to escape the party since it only takes an action to cast and it is 7th level. The only way to reasonably stop the escape via the plane shift spell is an anti-magic field or counterspell - which if it isn't level 7 - will require a DC17 ability check to succeed.
P.P.S. The hag takes delight in corrupting mortals so another way out for the DM could be to have the hag offer a bargain to the party to stop haunting them (hags are former fae and fiends - so bargains might fit the archetype). So, perhaps the hag offers to stop haunting the party in exchange for a task that sounds innocuous enough but will lead to more corruption in the long run. e.g. "An evil ruler is keeping a sorcerer in his dungeon. Free the sorcerer. Aid her escape. Kill the evil ruler if you can."
Ohh 💩. If I wanna call the ceiling the “ground” in my campaign then I will. 😝 Besides, whether placed on the ceiling or the ground, the glowing tunes would appear on both surfaces anyway, so what’s the difference?
You do you! The difference is if the ceiling is higher than 20 feet high, the circle won't touch it but will always touch the ground as it's where it' originate.
Setup:
The party members have been targeted by a Coven of Night Hag, using their Nightmare Haunting ability.
Their idea is to trap the Hags in Magic Circle
Questions / Opinions
One of the party ideas is to hide the magic circle under a rug if they can get the Hag to materialize from the Ethereal Plan to the Material Plane. So could a Magic Circle be hidden under something, or do the runes of the circle need to be exposed? As the DM, I'd allow it, as it's not something that could be abused, but I would like to get people's opinions.
It works on Supernatural. I’d allow it. They could also try putting it on the ceiling too (that also works on Supernatural), since who thinks to look up? As a DM I stick Ropers on ceilings all the time.
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Oh...that's a good idea. The group has not come up with that, but I see how that would work out.
Keep in mind the hags can still cast spells across the circle; it only debuffs attack rolls and blocks certain conditions.
Looking at this bullet point
What would be considered 'Protecting targets.'-- wouldn't it be protected from Spells?
Technically only attack based spells, or spells that impose the charmed or frightened conditions.
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Like Sposta said, the “protection” is only the effects already described earlier in the spell; really the circle loses a lot of effectiveness against anything with ranged options
Sorry, and it could be my own stupidity, but I'm not following what type of spells people outside the circle would be protected from.
Very few; anything that makes an attack roll will be at a disadvantage, and anything that inflicts charmed or frightened at the very least can’t apply the conditions. Like I said, the circle only fully traps a purely melee creature.
One thing I'd note is that the spell description says "Glowing runes appear wherever the cylinder intersects with the floor or other surface." Does the rug count as a surface?
If you reverse it, then whoever is inside the circle has disadvantage on attack rolls (which would include spells that use attack rolls) on creatures outside the circle, and targets outside the circle cannot be charmed, frightened or possessed.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
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People outside the circle would be somewhat protected against spells like acid arrow or chill touch because they require an attack roll, so the creature would have disadvantage on those attacks. They would also be completely protected against spells like cause fear and charm person because of the conditions they impose. However they would not be protected against spells like magic missile or fireball because they don’t require an attack roll, nor would they be protected against spells like hold person or blindness/deafness because the conditions they impose are not protected against, nor would they be protected against spells like bane which impose no condition, and the creature could also summon other creatures outside of the circle.
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That’s why I homebrewed a “greater magic circle” at 5th-level which also grants protected creatures advantage on all saving throws forced by spells or other magical effects generated by an affected creature, and requires a successful save for an affected creature to summon something on the other side of the circle just like when attempting to teleport.
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A Magic Circle creates a big cylinder of magical energy on the ground that can be physically crossed, so i assume placing an object on it has no effect whatsoever and the glowing runes that appear wherever the cylinder intersects with the floor or other surface such as the ceiling it reaches, if any, will still be there since nothing in the spell counter-indicate that.
The Spell specifically originate on the ground.
''You create a 10-foot-radius, 20-foot-tall cylinder of magical energy centered on a point on the ground that you can see within range.''
Ohh 💩. If I wanna call the ceiling the “ground” in my campaign then I will. 😝 Besides, whether placed on the ceiling or the ground, the glowing tunes would appear on both surfaces anyway, so what’s the difference?
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There are a couple of other problems with the plan that the DM would need to adjudicate. Keep in mind that you can always change up RAW for your game.
1) Reversing the spell. Does this actually reverse the spell OR does it completely prevent a creature of the specified type from leaving the cylinder?
"When you cast this spell, you can elect to cause its magic to operate in the reverse direction, preventing a creature of the specified type from leaving the cylinder and protecting targets outside it."
RAW - the spell allows a charisma save to leave it by magical means and a hag can go ethereal at will if they have their heartstone. A Magic Circle won't hold a hag for long since they get +3 on charisma saves and will be able to try to leave by becoming ethereal every round until they succeed (if the hag has been night haunting them then they will have a heartstone since it is needed to get to the ethereal plane to do that in the first place).
"The creature can’t willingly enter the cylinder by nonmagical means. If the creature tries to use teleportation or interplanar travel to do so, it must first succeed on a Charisma saving throw."
2) In terms of visibility. You can't hide the runes by putting them under a rug because the runes appear on any intersecting surfaces.
"You create a 10-foot-radius, 20-foot-tall cylinder of magical energy centered on a point on the ground that you can see within range. Glowing runes appear wherever the cylinder intersects with the floor or other surface."
The runes don't create the spell - they are a side effect of the magic of the spell and are visible.
P.S. If the party can get the hag to appear on the material plane then they might be better off trying to ambush the hag, grapple them, and have someone steal the heartstone, removing the ability of the hag to enter the ethereal plane at will. The hag can still use their 2 times/day Planeshift but it will limit them a bit. Night hags are very hard to pin down since they can go ethereal at will and still have Plane Shift in their back pocket to escape the party since it only takes an action to cast and it is 7th level. The only way to reasonably stop the escape via the plane shift spell is an anti-magic field or counterspell - which if it isn't level 7 - will require a DC17 ability check to succeed.
P.P.S. The hag takes delight in corrupting mortals so another way out for the DM could be to have the hag offer a bargain to the party to stop haunting them (hags are former fae and fiends - so bargains might fit the archetype). So, perhaps the hag offers to stop haunting the party in exchange for a task that sounds innocuous enough but will lead to more corruption in the long run. e.g. "An evil ruler is keeping a sorcerer in his dungeon. Free the sorcerer. Aid her escape. Kill the evil ruler if you can."
You do you! The difference is if the ceiling is higher than 20 feet high, the circle won't touch it but will always touch the ground as it's where it' originate.
Two words: spider climb😎
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Additional question for how to use the circle, (playing my first spell caster and trying to figure out mechanics);
Say I cast Magic Circle and successfully trap my target inside. Next round can I cast Hungry of Hadar within the Magic Circle?
It looks good to me.