Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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How do people typically rule magical darkness in their games? Do you treat it as sort of a cloud of smoke that darkvision cant see through? Do you treat it as normal darkness but darkvision just doesn't work in it?
Rules for it are pretty clear for creatures outside magic darkness trying to see inside magic darkness and for creatures inside magic darkness trying to see inside magic darkness, but they're not clear for creatures inside magic darkness trying to see outside of magic darkness. Likewise for if magic darkness obscures visions for creatures not in the darkness but on opposite sides of the area trying to see each other.
If a player is standing inside of a 30 ft sphere of magic darkness, and they're trying to see an enemy standing outside of that sphere, are they able to see that creature and attack it without issue?
I've personally always seen magic darkness in my head as a sphere of darkness acting more like a cloud of smoke, but someone recently suggested to me the idea that it's not like that, that it's just like normal darkness but darkvision doesn't work in it.
My way of thinking, if you're inside of it, your vision is obscured so of course you cant see outside of the darkness.
Their way of thinking, if you're inside it, it's no different than standing in darkness IRL, and if there's a light in the distance while you're in darkness irl, you dont have any problem seeing things in that field of light.
I've always ruled it like the cloud of smoke, so a player in it trying to see out of it has just as much of a hard time seeing an enemy as an enemy outside trying to see a player inside of it.
The other way though would vastly increase the effectiveness of it but it feels weird to me because then you run in to the question of if you can see silhouettes in the darkness if there's a light source on the opposite side.
And then another ruling question came to mind when we started discussing this that I never really thought of before. If you treat it like a cloud of smoke, how do different vision types interact in that case? Like if a player has 30 ft of truesight and that truesight lets them see to the outer edge of the area of darkness, can their normal vision or darkvision continue past that point?
How does everyone else treat it?
An important thing to keep in mind here is that "magical darkness" is not a general game concept that has its own defined rules. A magical source of darkness follows the general rules for darkness unless its description explicitly overrides them; there's nothing special about magical sources of darkness in general.
This means, for instance, that "a cloud of smoke that darkvision can't see through" isn't an accurate description of magical darkness, because not every magical source of darkness has that property about darkvision not being able to see through it. That's a feature of the Darkness spell, but not of magical darkness in general; some magical sources of darkness, like Hunger of Hadar, don't have that property.
pronouns: he/she/they
Yes, when I say "Magical Darkness" I am referring specifically to the numerous spells, magic items, features, etc that create some type of area of darkness that darkvision is not able to see through.
As opposed to an area of normal darkness created by a magic spell/effect.
That being said, I am fairly certain I have always seen the first one referred to specifically as "Magical Darkness" while the second is referred to just as "Darkness".
Darkness (e.g. night or a windowless room) we experience outside the game is just an absence of light. You can't use this to explain magical darkness.
Light as we see is just several wave lengths (light spectrum) that our eyes can process. There are other wavelengths our eyes cannot process, but some animals can see using them. This would be a better example of what magical darkness does. It blocks those wavelengths from traveling, so dark vision does not work.
If something blocks your ability to see, you can't just start seeing normal again after that blockage stops. Vision has no 30 foot gaps.
Magical Darkness doesn't mean "blocks Darkvision". It's a common misconception.
There are only 2 official spells that block Darkvision: Darkness and Maddening Darkness. That's it.
If you include Partnered Content, you have a few more, like the Candle of Anti-Light from the Griffon’s Saddlebag. And again, that's because it explicitly says so, not because it's magical.
What @wagnarokkr or @Natrel explained is also included in the SAC:
@KinoGeno Just for simplicity, and putting aside characters with Darkvision or any other special senses, this is my personal ruling regarding Darkness:
- If it's magical (such as one created by a magical effect like the Darkness, Fog Cloud or Hallow spells), it's creating a Heavily Obscured area that renders your vision entirely opaque. You would have the Blinded condition while trying to see something in that space.
- If it's mundane or non-magical, I'm ruling it like the real world: if there's a creature and light outside the Heavily Obscured area, you can see it just fine.
This topic about Darkness is sometimes Heavily discussed when it appears. IINM, the most recent one is AoE Blindness Adv/Dis negation? I left some related threads there:
I think I get what you are saying, but your phrasing is awkwardly missing the distinction: of course you are blinded while trying to see something in that space. The point of contention is usually if you can still see things out of that space or through that space. And the rules never really say anything about the latter --- presumably leaving the difference between darkness (magical or not) and opaque fog up to "common sense."
Totally kenclary, my mistake...
Yeah, at least in my case, I'm ruling a creature can't see out of that space or through that space.
I allow Darkvision and Devil’s Sight to see through magical Darkness unless noted otherwise.
People got real off track on this topic for some reason and I have no idea why. The topic of this thread was never what is and isn't magical darkness and when it blocks certain vision types. The effects that create the areas always list the vision types it impacts.
The point of this thread was how, for the areas of darkvision blocking magic darkness, it impacts the ability to see things that are not inside that area.
Which is why I brought up the concept of the area being one of the following...
Similar to a Cloud of Smoke: Where if you're in it, you cant see anything else inside of it, and you cant see out of it. And if you're outside of it, you cant see inside of it, and the area also blocks your vision from seeing things on the opposite side of the smoke that aren't actually inside of the smoke... because there's a big cloud of smoke in the way.
or is it...
Similar to how Darkness actually works: Picture a dark street lit by sporadic street lamps. You're in the dark and you cant see anyone else in the dark because it's too dark to see. But if someone is standing under a street lamp a hundred feet away from you, you could see them because they're not in the darkness. Likewise, if someone is under one of those street lamps looking in to the darkness, they cant see someone standing in the darkness, because it's dark obviously. But if someone is standing under a different street lamp farther down the road, you'd be able to see them, even if the road between you is dark. On top of that, if you were moving in the darkness, and the light source is behind you in the distance, while a person might not be able to make out your details, they'd still be able to make out your silhouette against the lit backdrop.
In my head I have always pictured this area as something like the cloud of smoke. But when you actually read some of the effects that create these types of areas, like the Darkness spell, they dont describe it with any real detail like it being opaque or anything, just darkness spreading.
This is mechanically something worth noting because then you get the question of if a player is standing in this area, can they attack an enemy outside of it, being heavily obscured themself but being able to see the enemy perfectly clearly? Which would give them advantage on the attack. Can someone with a bow standing outside of the area attack an enemy on the other side of the area without penalty? If it's just an area of darkness, they should be able to see them, but if it's more of a fog the enemy would he heavily obscured.
Note that darkness is heavily obscured, but not all heavily obscured areas are considered darkness. A fog isn't necessarily dark.
As to answer your question, an area of darkness is considered magical darkness if it's created by a magical effect.
And an effect is considered magical if its description says it's magical. Spells, Channel Divinity, Teleportation, and so on, are magical effects because it's mentioned in their description.
KinoGeno, if I'm understanding you well, something like this?
If so, I answered to the image made by Wysperra with the next comment:
(again, no special senses involved)
- No Cover in any case.
- A can see and target B no problem. And vice-versa.
- A has the Blinded condition while trying to see or target C, D and E. And vice-versa. Spells or game features that say "that you can see" are affected.
- C has the Blinded condition when trying to see or target E. And vice-versa. Spells or game features that say "that you can see" are affected.
When you can't see through an area of magical Darkness then i treat it like a cloud of smoke blocking vision entirely inside out.
I 100% agree with Tarod_ assessment of the diagram and would rule accordingly.
Yes, this is exactly what I'm referring to. That is exactly how I have always ruled it in the past, with it essentially functioning as a cloud of smoke/fog.
But when someone I talked to brought up the idea that it's darkness and not a cloud of opaque material, and just an area where vision doesn't function properly within it, it made me actually look in to what the actual wording of the effects are and I just honestly cant find anything that gives a clear answer that I can point to and go "It works this way, it says so here."
Using your Diagram (which is very helpful for this conversation, so thank you for that)...
Those 2 are very clear from the wording of the various texts.
But I cant find anything describing C vs A or A vs D in this situation.
Another related area of the conversation came when we then brought up how Truesight factors in to this situation too if you assume the cloud of smoke ruling, in the situation where, using your diagram...
Assuming area in the circle is magic darkness creating heavily obscured vision and the area outside is bright light. If creature E has 30 ft of Truesight, can creature E see creature A or not? 30 ft of Truesight would extend past the edge of the circle in to bright light, A is in Bright Light. But does Creature E's vision extend beyond the range of their Truesight in to normal sight since that area is not in the circle? Or does E's field of vision extend 30 ft and then just hit a black wall of nothing since their normal vision is still obscured by the darkness.
If A and E are more than 30ft away from each other, then no. If E has 30ft of Truesight, they are blinded beyond that range.
KinoGeno, I think the thread Blindsight, beyond the Darkness is related to the last question you made about Truesight, but with Blindsight instead.
If it helps, this is what I left, but you can go and read what others from that thread said: