So, with the below statement, you agree that a walking speed of 0ft (at the moment) is not reflective of the actual potential movement of a creature to utilise groundbased locomotion.
That's an argument for giving dolphins a walking speed greater than 0.
From your interpretation of my point, it would be fair to allow a dolphin to utilise a speed buff from Longstrider for ground based locomotion because dolphins walking speed is not representative of their actual groundbased locomotive capabilites. So, again, while the decision is the DM's, they may rule that some 0ft walking speed creatures can benefit from Longstrider for their walking speed or not, but as a general interpretation, they aren't wrong?
(I'm on mobile and can't select below the second quote)
I'm with you on all points apart from the fact that, speed is explicitly stated to mean walking, unless specified otherwise, PHB chapter 8:
"Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round. This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life-threatening situation."
Here lies the rub, Longstrider doesn't specify a speed type, thus it either applies to any speed the target creature already has, to every speed the target creature already has or, only to it's walking speed. If the rules said that a creature with no capability to fly has a fly speed of 0ft then, Longstrider, RAW, could give a 10ft buff to that speed. But that isn't the rule, the rule is every creature has a speed of at least 0ft Walking and so, every creature, RAW, is able to recieve a buff from Longstrider to give them 10ft walking speed.
This doesn't mean that they have to use the speed (or that they can use the speed) but RAW this works. There is nothing saying (like restrained) that they are not able to recieve an increase to this speed.
How it plays out is entirely up to the DM, but RAW Longstrider is able to increase a speed up from 0ft.
It's been stated repeatedly that because it's magic, it gives the ability to do the thing. In this case, move along the ground. Fly being the prime example of giving a mode of movement not normally allowed to a creature.
If a creature has speed 0, Longstrider give it a bonus +10. If no other mode of movement is given then it doesn't get a bonus to those types.
Fly explicitly gives you the ability to fly. Longstrider doesn't even mention walking speed.
The issue derives, for me, from the fact that 'speed' is never used to decribe a non-walking speed without the type/catagory of speed also being mentioned...
If you look at rules and features that affect speed, you'll find that "speed" is consistently used to mean "whatever speed is currently relevant". Again, look at the Dash action or spells like Ray of Frost, Haste and Slow. None of these are specific to walking. When the rules mean walking speed, they say walking speed. See for example the wood elf's Fleet of Foot trait or the Boots of Striding and Springing.
While there is the ruling: "All creatures have a walking speed, simply called the monster’s speed. Creatures that have no form of groundbased locomotion have a walking speed of 0 feet."
It is not stated in the inverse, it does not state that: "Creatures with that have a walking speed of 0 feet have no form of groundbased locomotion"
Right. Because taking a creature that does have ground-based locomotion and reducing its speed to 0 doesn't change the fact that it does have ground-based locomotion; it just means you've stopped it from using it.
Imagine if player character sheets had boxes for flying, swimming and borrow speeds and the rules said "characters without these speeds have a 0 in their character sheet." The fact that they decided to represent your lack of flying speed with a 0 doesn't imply you get to fly as soon as you get some general bonus to your speed.
Using a different example: A dolphin has a walking speed of 0ft but (I am not supporting this treatment of animals) can traverse a flat dry surface without assistance (granted it required training but that indicates that, from a logical point of view, the ruling is that a creature always has 0ft of walking speed and some creatures with 0ft walking speed have no form of groundbased locomotion)
Again, this is not seeking to require a specific ruling from the DM at the table but to clarify that the DM can fairly rule in either direction (so long as the DM is fair in the rulings with regards to consistancy)
Dolphins are much lighter animals. In the similar thread involving a druid becoming a shark, I argued that the spell would help the shark, since sharks clearly can flip around, just as dolphins can and most (but not all) fish can.
So yes, DM's decision, which is the case whenever the rules are murky or not explicitly stated (and technically true even when explicitly stated).
While I, in principle, disagree with changing the decision based on weight (encumberance rules only counts weight additional to the creatures weight), I understamd why you would and would have no issues with a DM making the decision from that.
I would say the rules are explictly stated and murky as it's possible to find quotes from the rules to back up either interpretation.
Using a different example: A dolphin has a walking speed of 0ft but (I am not supporting this treatment of animals) can traverse a flat dry surface without assistance (granted it required training but that indicates that, from a logical point of view, the ruling is that a creature always has 0ft of walking speed and some creatures with 0ft walking speed have no form of groundbased locomotion)
Again, this is not seeking to require a specific ruling from the DM at the table but to clarify that the DM can fairly rule in either direction (so long as the DM is fair in the rulings with regards to consistancy)
Dolphins are much lighter animals. In the similar thread involving a druid becoming a shark, I argued that the spell would help the shark, since sharks clearly can flip around, just as dolphins can and most (but not all) fish can.
So yes, DM's decision, which is the case whenever the rules are murky or not explicitly stated (and technically true even when explicitly stated).
While I, in principle, disagree with changing the decision based on weight (encumberance rules only counts weight additional to the creatures weight), I understamd why you would and would have no issues with a DM making the decision from that.
I would say the rules are explictly stated and murky as it's possible to find quotes from the rules to back up either interpretation.
More specifically it is not merely a weight issue but muscle to weight. A whale is physiologically built for floatation. Most of its extra weight thus helps it in the water rather than hinders it. However air is a lot less dense than water. Fully on land, it has zero benefit from floatation. Dolphin, sharks, and most fish are not so specialized in that regard. They do not have all that extra mass devoted to floatation.
And in the shallows, it still has at least partial floatation benefit. So if the whale was levitating (thus giving it superior floatation even to that which it has in water), then sure, but simply grounded, completely out of water? Very different story, not just due to the raw weight but the design. In contrast, similarly large land creatures Dragons likely have similar or greater weight, but are built to handle land movement. Whales are not. It is not merely a weight issue.
My point isn't that your concerns are not valid, just that there are no rules covering them in 5e. Again, the difference is in interpretation, I believe that Longstrider is capable of dealing with the physiological issues behind a whales lack of unsupported movement on land, but it is not stated in the rules as to whether this is the case or not, so either interpretation (that it does help or that it doesn't)
Edit: I hope you are willing to accept the blame from my players when I do a levitating killer whale oneshot, because that sounds both awesome and terrible. Just the evil druid 'awaken'ing a pod of killer whales and each night levitating them to go amd harrass the nearby fishing villiage
Generally speaking Whales don't display anti-human proclivities, for my own sake not wanting to villianise the whales, better have them be manipulated into it by a evil/malicious other creature.
While it'd be whacky, I'm not sold on Whale spellcasters yet, I'm not opposed, it just leaves a whole lot more to be explained. Why levitate when you could just cast spells from the water?
But yeah, ultimately DM's decision, Longstride definitely doesn't add to speeds that a creature does have but it's up to the DM to decide where the walking speed RAW situation falls
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From your interpretation of my point, it would be fair to allow a dolphin to utilise a speed buff from Longstrider for ground based locomotion because dolphins walking speed is not representative of their actual groundbased locomotive capabilites. So, again, while the decision is the DM's, they may rule that some 0ft walking speed creatures can benefit from Longstrider for their walking speed or not, but as a general interpretation, they aren't wrong?
(I'm on mobile and can't select below the second quote)
I'm with you on all points apart from the fact that, speed is explicitly stated to mean walking, unless specified otherwise, PHB chapter 8:
"Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round. This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life-threatening situation."
Here lies the rub, Longstrider doesn't specify a speed type, thus it either applies to any speed the target creature already has, to every speed the target creature already has or, only to it's walking speed. If the rules said that a creature with no capability to fly has a fly speed of 0ft then, Longstrider, RAW, could give a 10ft buff to that speed. But that isn't the rule, the rule is every creature has a speed of at least 0ft Walking and so, every creature, RAW, is able to recieve a buff from Longstrider to give them 10ft walking speed.
This doesn't mean that they have to use the speed (or that they can use the speed) but RAW this works. There is nothing saying (like restrained) that they are not able to recieve an increase to this speed.
How it plays out is entirely up to the DM, but RAW Longstrider is able to increase a speed up from 0ft.
While I, in principle, disagree with changing the decision based on weight (encumberance rules only counts weight additional to the creatures weight), I understamd why you would and would have no issues with a DM making the decision from that.
I would say the rules are explictly stated and murky as it's possible to find quotes from the rules to back up either interpretation.
My point isn't that your concerns are not valid, just that there are no rules covering them in 5e. Again, the difference is in interpretation, I believe that Longstrider is capable of dealing with the physiological issues behind a whales lack of unsupported movement on land, but it is not stated in the rules as to whether this is the case or not, so either interpretation (that it does help or that it doesn't)
Edit: I hope you are willing to accept the blame from my players when I do a levitating killer whale oneshot, because that sounds both awesome and terrible. Just the evil druid 'awaken'ing a pod of killer whales and each night levitating them to go amd harrass the nearby fishing villiage
Generally speaking Whales don't display anti-human proclivities, for my own sake not wanting to villianise the whales, better have them be manipulated into it by a evil/malicious other creature.
While it'd be whacky, I'm not sold on Whale spellcasters yet, I'm not opposed, it just leaves a whole lot more to be explained. Why levitate when you could just cast spells from the water?
But yeah, ultimately DM's decision, Longstride definitely doesn't add to speeds that a creature does have but it's up to the DM to decide where the walking speed RAW situation falls