Making those kind of remarks against people with disabilities is rude and hurtful.
But regarding Longstrider, every mode of movement is increased. Having a move of 0 doesn't mean you can't get a bonus for it. Like flying, most creatures don't even have it listed do they wouldn't get a bonus.
Right, but the question is whether the 0 for a whale really means 'Could move (slide, slither, whatever) if they had some means of propulsion' or if it means 'Have no form of movement in that medium.'
A human in freefall cannot usually control their falling speed much but nevertheless can by controlling their surface area and can still often somewhat direct their fall. They have no powered flight but nevertheless do actually have a 0 flight speed equivalent.
I have made no remarks against persons with disabilities. Humans are still also tool using and there are ways that even a quadriplegic could 'run,' swim or fly, through prosthetics and/or a breath controlled vehicle (for ground movement), jet pack or plane (for flight) or ship/submarine (for 'swimming'). The state of modern artificial legs is similarly really good, and artificial hands, completely amazing. Humans with disabilities are very much real people and no 'lesser' than anyone else.
But without such technologies, someone with no limbs is someone with no limbs. And a whale has no limbs suitable for land movement, not even its spine. Again, it is not built like a snake.
I’ve said this multiple times now...we can talk about the limitations of movement and anatomy and physiology all day long, but none of that is RAW, and it ignores that the magic spell we are discussing (emphasis on magic) and magic in general can render all of that moot. Humans are incapable of natural flight, yet fly allows them to, and nothing in the spell description causes them to grow wings, let alone the size wings that would allow a human to fly. Magic does not have to follow the rules of anatomy period, and if the game lists a speed for a creature by RAW and plain English the longstrider spell increases that speed by 10. How the creature gains that movement (wriggling, rolling, gliding, etc) is up to the DM, but there is no RAW that says it doesn’t work, in the spell description or elsewhere
Personally, due to a format decision, RAW does give a Killer Whale a walk speed of 0ft, thus Longstrider gives it Walk 10ft Swim 70ft
However, I disagree that Longstrider gives any other speed boost, it only effects speeds a creature has, if all monsters weren't by default given a walk speed (DMG p279) then Longstrider wouldn't give them walking speed. So players don't get an increase to their Swim Speed, unless they had a value for that prior to having Longstrider cast on them.
Having seen a Killer Whale use a "Walking speed", I would argue that this isn't as obscene as is being purported (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk1VdQxeTn4) while certainly an ungainly method of travel, it's hardly immobile on land.
Personally, due to a format decision, RAW does give a Killer Whale a walk speed of 0ft, thus Longstrider gives it Walk 10ft Swim 70ft
However, I disagree that Longstrider gives any other speed boost, it only effects speeds a creature has, if all monsters weren't by default given a walk speed (DMG p279) then Longstrider wouldn't give them walking speed. So players don't get an increase to their Swim Speed, unless they had a value for that prior to having Longstrider cast on them.
Having seen a Killer Whale use a "Walking speed", I would argue that this isn't as obscene as is being purported (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk1VdQxeTn4) while certainly an ungainly method of travel, it's hardly immobile on land.
You do get an increase to swim and climb speeds even if you don’t have one listed, because the default calculation method for those uses walking speed. It’s 2 feet for every 1 foot traveled (same as difficult terrain). That means longstrider does give an effective 5 foot bonus to swim and climb speeds for creatures without them listed
Cool video btw! It’s now known the default means of ground locomotion for killer whales is wriggling
Making those kind of remarks against people with disabilities is rude and hurtful.
But regarding Longstrider, every mode of movement is increased. Having a move of 0 doesn't mean you can't get a bonus for it. Like flying, most creatures don't even have it listed do they wouldn't get a bonus.
Right, but the question is whether the 0 for a whale really means 'Could move (slide, slither, whatever) if they had some means of propulsion' or if it means 'Have no form of movement in that medium.'
A human in freefall cannot usually control their falling speed much but nevertheless can by controlling their surface area and can still often somewhat direct their fall. They have no powered flight but nevertheless do actually have a 0 flight speed equivalent.
I have made no remarks against persons with disabilities. Humans are still also tool using and there are ways that even a quadriplegic could 'run,' swim or fly, through prosthetics and/or a breath controlled vehicle (for ground movement), jet pack or plane (for flight) or ship/submarine (for 'swimming'). The state of modern artificial legs is similarly really good, and artificial hands, completely amazing. Humans with disabilities are very much real people and no 'lesser' than anyone else.
But without such technologies, someone with no limbs is someone with no limbs. And a whale has no limbs suitable for land movement, not even its spine. Again, it is not built like a snake.
I’ve said this multiple times now...we can talk about the limitations of movement and anatomy and physiology all day long, but none of that is RAW, and it ignores that the magic spell we are discussing (emphasis on magic) and magic in general can render all of that moot. Humans are incapable of natural flight, yet fly allows them to, and nothing in the spell description causes them to grow wings, let alone the size wings that would allow a human to fly. Magic does not have to follow the rules of anatomy period, and if the game lists a speed for a creature by RAW and plain English the longstrider spell increases that speed by 10. How the creature gains that movement (wriggling, rolling, gliding, etc) is up to the DM, but there is no RAW that says it doesn’t work, in the spell description or elsewhere
Fly's description is much more limited than Longstrider. Fly specifies a flight speed and simply grants that speed, which in theory means it slows down any willing creature which could otherwise fly faster by whatever means (although discussing any such ramifications of that wording would be off topic here).
In contrast, nothing in Longstrider says it does not allow the target to fly. It does not say 'If the target creature has a listed speed....' Nothing in longstrider says anything about not enhancing burrowing, passing through rock, etc. Taken literally, using your argument, it does not require even a listed 0 speed in any given movement mode.
At some point common sense becomes a part of RAW, a background assumption, even if not formally stated.
Yeah, whales can move on land...see the video linked in post 81...it’s not pretty, but it’s possible, and longstrider will make them slightly better at it
also, I’ve never said the spell grants you a new speed...I’ve only ever said the spell enhances current speeds, and by RAW all creatures are printed with a walking speed
I can't tell if you are just really committed and grasping at straws or just trolling at this point., but no, Longstrider adds to listed speeds only. If a killer whale has listed speeds of 0 Ft (walking) and 60 ft (swimming), then the result is 10/70. the whale has no "listed" climbing speed so longstrider doesn't apply, but theoretically it could climb 5 feet using the movement calculation rules for climbing (now, what DC would you set for that? probably a really high one if one at all). The spell does not grant speeds; but by RAW, whether through intent or formatting, all creatures have a listed walking speed.
I'm done arguing with you, as I've repeated this about 10 times now, and you have yet to refute my actual argument, instead either 1) going of on strange tangents involving disabled people, 2) arguing physiology/anatomy, or 3) ignoring the argument entirely (you don't add the 10 feet to an unlisted speed, as you ask in the above post)
Best of luck in your games; feel free to have the last word; I'm pretty sure the readers know who is being reasonable here.
People don’t actually have any appendages specifically suited to swimming either, but we manage to anyway. And if you cast Longstrider on a person they would swim faster too.
This is very much not true. People may not have bodies specifically specialized for swimming but they most certainly have no problems swimming, providing they have limbs. A quadriplegic, on the other hand, has no way to even so much as insure they keep their head up in the water.
I didn’t say we couldn’t swim. I in fact clearly stated that we do manage to swim. It helps if you pay attention to the whole statement and don’t drift off half way through the first sentence....
While yes we can swim, there are hordes of scientists across many fields of study who can explain to you that human arms and legs are comparatively crappy as a means of aquatic locomotion. Fins, tails, heck even a little interdigital webbing would be an improvement over what we have to work with in terms of how “specifically suited to swimming” our appendages are. Compared to a whale, we practically are paralyzed in the water we’re so slow.
You are describing ways in which we could be specialized for swimming. The human form is evolved for versatility rather than specialized. There are stronger animals, faster animals, animals that swim better or fly better or, naked, handle various specific climates better. However humans can handle a wider variety, even before taking tool use into account. With tool use, of course, even environments where nothing lives (interplanetary space) are not even limits, but even without tools, the form is very versatile.
And when you say 'Comparatively crappy' you are falling back to 'If you are not the best, you are useless.' That argument does not apply when comparing an absolute (no locomotion) to a non-absolute (locomotion at some non-zero speed).
First of all, when I say “comparatively crappy” I am most certainly not “falling back on an 'If you are not the best, you are useless’” argument. Don’t put words in my effing mouth. What I am saying is that compared to a whale, we suck at swimming. Much like when I say that your arguments in this matter are “comparatively crappy” when viewed next to mine. They aren’t “useless,” just nowhere near as good. 😉
Second, interdigital webbing is one of those adaptations that non-specialized vertebrates develop to aid in swimming. If they were actually specialized, they would have actual fins. Tails would fall under that category too. I am of course referring to creatures like frogs and alligators who are other “versatile” creatures who are also both better swimmers than humans. Read a book on the subject if you’d like to learn more.
Lastly, what makes you assume that whales have absolutely no land based locomotion? They very well may, but they’re just too heavy. All they really need is a little boost. Gee, isn’t there a spell that can give a creature just a little boost to their movement speed...?
Personally, due to a format decision, RAW does give a Killer Whale a walk speed of 0ft, thus Longstrider gives it Walk 10ft Swim 70ft
However, I disagree that Longstrider gives any other speed boost, it only effects speeds a creature has, if all monsters weren't by default given a walk speed (DMG p279) then Longstrider wouldn't give them walking speed. So players don't get an increase to their Swim Speed, unless they had a value for that prior to having Longstrider cast on them.
Having seen a Killer Whale use a "Walking speed", I would argue that this isn't as obscene as is being purported (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk1VdQxeTn4) while certainly an ungainly method of travel, it's hardly immobile on land.
In that video, it never actually leaves the water. It enters the shallows, but still has the water and the surf, so it still benefits from at least some buoyancy.
Yes, but Longstrider doesn't specify how it grants the increase to speed, I'm not arguing that Killer Whales have a walking speed irl, I'm arguing that a genuine magic spell is capable of sproviding it with one.
If a bit of surf buoyancy, the depth of water is definitely to small to classify as swimming, is sufficient to provide that much (admittedly awkward) non-swimming movement, then Longstrider is definitely able to provide the Killer Whale a 10ft 'walk speed'.
I can't tell if you are just really committed and grasping at straws or just trolling at this point., but no, Longstrider adds to listed speeds only. If a killer whale has listed speeds of 0 Ft (walking) and 60 ft (swimming), then the result is 10/70. the whale has no "listed" climbing speed so longstrider doesn't apply, but theoretically it could climb 5 feet using the movement calculation rules for climbing (now, what DC would you set for that? probably a really high one if one at all). The spell does not grant speeds; but by RAW, whether through intent or formatting, all creatures have a listed walking speed.
I'm done arguing with you, as I've repeated this about 10 times now, and you have yet to refute my actual argument, instead either 1) going of on strange tangents involving disabled people, 2) arguing physiology/anatomy, or 3) ignoring the argument entirely (you don't add the 10 feet to an unlisted speed, as you ask in the above post)
Best of luck in your games; feel free to have the last word; I'm pretty sure the readers know who is being reasonable here.
I was not saying that it does add flight or anything else. I was pointing out that, according to the logic you are using, it should.
The spell says nothing about 'listed' speed, merely speed. At a minimum, it should not add to anything other than walking speed (and climbing/swimming via the formula, only if there is no listed flying or swimming speed) since that is what 'speed' means with no other qualifier.
However when people use the argument 'But it is magic' then the counter is 'So is a fireball. So is fly.' When people say 'Only listed speeds' well that is not actually said in the spell description. Nor is any clear definition of what zero means.
The logic is that if you have a listed speed, it grants +10ft to that speed.
To quote the Basic Rules on Speed:
Speed
Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round. This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life-threatening situation. The following rules determine how far a character or monster can move in a minute, an hour, or a day.
I've left out the "following rules" because the focus is on the fact that, when mentioned without a special movement time, speed is, RAW, assumed to be walking. The rules are also pretty clear that Swimming, Climbing and, Crawling are 'Special Types of Movement' with specific rules for them, see quote below:
Climbing, Swimming, and Crawling
Each foot of movement costs 1 extra foot (2 extra feet in difficult terrain) when you’re climbing, swimming, or crawling. You ignore this extra cost if you have a climbing speed and use it to climb or a swimming speed and use it to swim.
Where an effect provides a player with a non-walking speed, it is explicitly stated, see Fly Spell, Flying Speed for Aarakocra's, Climbing speed for Tabaxi etc
Because Climbing, Swimming etc are derived from your walking speed if you don't have one, longstrider does boost each of these but only by 5ft unless you have a specific special speed
So you believe elephants can climb trees at 20' per round then? RAW, they can. Even with the optional rule, they might need to make a strength (athletics) check but they can.
To quote from the DMG again, from pg 279 (again):
Every monster has a walking speed. (Immobile monsters have a walking speed of 0 feet.) In addition to its walking speed, a monster might have one or more other speeds, including a burrowing, climbing, flying, or swimming speed.
The explicit wording, is that the walking speed is default (it may be 0 but it is still there) and any other speeds are additional. Fortunately, the 5e rules are pretty consistent with how they refer to things. For example, when referring to a monsters capabilities, it never uses the second person, that is always limited to referring to either the Players, The Player Characters or, The DM. I don't believe that elephants can climb at a speed of 20ft per round, but a Loxodon player could potentially.
Unsurprisingly, the rules for movement given in the Player's Handbook, are intended for the players, and worded as such (You can... when you...) and not, as is the case for Monsters (It can... When the [Monster Name Here])
Fair enough, yes, RAW Elephants have can theoretically climb 20ft per round, which would increase to 25ft with Longstrider.
Personally, due to the lack of multiple gripping appendages, I would require skill checks to do so.
Generally, I would indicate no limbs suitable for moving with a condition like Restrained, but there are very few sentient beings incapable of any movement.
So you believe elephants can climb trees at 20' per round then? RAW, they can. Even with the optional rule, they might need to make a strength (athletics) check but they can.
To quote from the DMG again, from pg 279 (again):
Every monster has a walking speed. (Immobile monsters have a walking speed of 0 feet.) In addition to its walking speed, a monster might have one or more other speeds, including a burrowing, climbing, flying, or swimming speed.
The explicit wording, is that the walking speed is default (it may be 0 but it is still there) and any other speeds are additional. Fortunately, the 5e rules are pretty consistent with how they refer to things. For example, when referring to a monsters capabilities, it never uses the second person, that is always limited to referring to either the Players, The Player Characters or, The DM. I don't believe that elephants can climb at a speed of 20ft per round, but a Loxodon player could potentially.
Unsurprisingly, the rules for movement given in the Player's Handbook, are intended for the players, and worded as such (You can... when you...) and not, as is the case for Monsters (It can... When the [Monster Name Here])
To be clear, you are saying a creature is immobile because it has 0' of walking speed, but the text says the opposite: creatures that are immobile have a 0' walking speed (ostensibly because they're immobile).
So you believe elephants can climb trees at 20' per round then? RAW, they can. Even with the optional rule, they might need to make a strength (athletics) check but they can.
To quote from the DMG again, from pg 279 (again):
Every monster has a walking speed. (Immobile monsters have a walking speed of 0 feet.) In addition to its walking speed, a monster might have one or more other speeds, including a burrowing, climbing, flying, or swimming speed.
The explicit wording, is that the walking speed is default (it may be 0 but it is still there) and any other speeds are additional. Fortunately, the 5e rules are pretty consistent with how they refer to things. For example, when referring to a monsters capabilities, it never uses the second person, that is always limited to referring to either the Players, The Player Characters or, The DM. I don't believe that elephants can climb at a speed of 20ft per round, but a Loxodon player could potentially.
Unsurprisingly, the rules for movement given in the Player's Handbook, are intended for the players, and worded as such (You can... when you...) and not, as is the case for Monsters (It can... When the [Monster Name Here])
To be clear, you are saying a creature is immobile because it has 0' of walking speed, but the text says the opposite: creatures that are immobile have a 0' walking speed (ostensibly because they're immobile).
For my part, I am saying that the 0 speed in the stat block may or may not indicate immobility. There is no explanation given for the 0 speed of any such creature (at least not usually? Not checked every official listing). Hence I am saying that it is DM's option how to handle any given such situation.
I actually like this a lot and has been what I've been for all along.
No, I'm saying that the a creature has a walking speed of at least 0' regardless of how mobile they are.
Right. Then you need a DM to decide that, not an internet forum.
...Because longstrider doesn't change whether they are immobile, just increases their walking speed. Creatures can be immobile and still have a walking speed (see the text of paralyzed that someone brought up as an example).
That's not the same comparison, as paralyzed explicitly states can't move not immobilised.
Immobile being like the Shrieker, not like a Killer Whale.
A more accurate condition would be restrained, which reduces the affected creatures speed to 0, then has to specify that this can't increase.
Paralyzed does explicitly state "can't move". And your quote explicitly says "immobile". Are you saying that for some reason one of those means something other than what an average English speaker would think for some reason? Could you enlighten me as to why?
Can't move is that on their turn they cannot move but could be carried or dragged by a companion/ally/enemy without a direct issue. Like dragging a drunk friend up stairs.
Immobile includes can't be moved , which is to say that there would be difficulty inherently in the attempt to move them. A tree for DnD purposes could be said to be Immobile.
So to compare, Can't move is your unconcious friend, Immobile is the tree they are resting against.
Rules as Written? Yup. LandWhale is a thing. Rules as Intended? Probably not. Rule of Fun? That's based on your campaign.
Each form of travel has quirks though. You don't need a Swim speed at all to Swim, but you can't Fly without a Fly Speed. Land Speed is governed by Terrain. I am perfectly free as a DM to decide in a case by case manner what effect a given type of terrain has for each individual creature. Whales will find any land based terrain difficult at best, and impassable under most circumstances. Elephants technically can climb trees, but I rule that as impassable terrain for them. Judgement calls like that are part of the purpose of having a DM in the first place.
Can't move is that on their turn they cannot move but could be carried or dragged by a companion/ally/enemy without a direct issue. Like dragging a drunk friend up stairs.
Immobile includes can't be moved , which is to say that there would be difficulty inherently in the attempt to move them. A tree for DnD purposes could be said to be Immobile.
So to compare, Can't move is your unconcious friend, Immobile is the tree they are resting against.
Does that clear my perspective up any?
So can either an immobile creature or a creature that can't move move if it's speed is increased by 10'?
An immonile creature can't move even if it's speed is increased unless another rule trumps it. However, the specific case of the Killer Whale, and my earlier comment (very few creatures are immobile), isn't made invalid because of this.
Personally, I would say that a Shrieker is immobile but that's interpretation, I haven't yet seen in the rules a creature other than the Shrieker that as described is immobile. Note: I am interpreting immobile in terms of speed not in terms of any movement at all. There's a feature of the Shrieker that says when it's not moving, X effect, which I interprete to be moving in place (like the movement of an unconscious person in their breathing)
If you want to go back to arguing that point, I'll just point you back to the same beach clip, and if a shallow depth of surf (not swimming) allows that much movement, magic can manage 10ft per 6 seconds.
"This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life-threatening situation."
I’ve said this multiple times now...we can talk about the limitations of movement and anatomy and physiology all day long, but none of that is RAW, and it ignores that the magic spell we are discussing (emphasis on magic) and magic in general can render all of that moot. Humans are incapable of natural flight, yet fly allows them to, and nothing in the spell description causes them to grow wings, let alone the size wings that would allow a human to fly. Magic does not have to follow the rules of anatomy period, and if the game lists a speed for a creature by RAW and plain English the longstrider spell increases that speed by 10. How the creature gains that movement (wriggling, rolling, gliding, etc) is up to the DM, but there is no RAW that says it doesn’t work, in the spell description or elsewhere
Personally, due to a format decision, RAW does give a Killer Whale a walk speed of 0ft, thus Longstrider gives it Walk 10ft Swim 70ft
However, I disagree that Longstrider gives any other speed boost, it only effects speeds a creature has, if all monsters weren't by default given a walk speed (DMG p279) then Longstrider wouldn't give them walking speed. So players don't get an increase to their Swim Speed, unless they had a value for that prior to having Longstrider cast on them.
Having seen a Killer Whale use a "Walking speed", I would argue that this isn't as obscene as is being purported (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk1VdQxeTn4) while certainly an ungainly method of travel, it's hardly immobile on land.
You do get an increase to swim and climb speeds even if you don’t have one listed, because the default calculation method for those uses walking speed. It’s 2 feet for every 1 foot traveled (same as difficult terrain). That means longstrider does give an effective 5 foot bonus to swim and climb speeds for creatures without them listed
Cool video btw! It’s now known the default means of ground locomotion for killer whales is wriggling
Yeah, whales can move on land...see the video linked in post 81...it’s not pretty, but it’s possible, and longstrider will make them slightly better at it
also, I’ve never said the spell grants you a new speed...I’ve only ever said the spell enhances current speeds, and by RAW all creatures are printed with a walking speed
I can't tell if you are just really committed and grasping at straws or just trolling at this point., but no, Longstrider adds to listed speeds only. If a killer whale has listed speeds of 0 Ft (walking) and 60 ft (swimming), then the result is 10/70. the whale has no "listed" climbing speed so longstrider doesn't apply, but theoretically it could climb 5 feet using the movement calculation rules for climbing (now, what DC would you set for that? probably a really high one if one at all). The spell does not grant speeds; but by RAW, whether through intent or formatting, all creatures have a listed walking speed.
I'm done arguing with you, as I've repeated this about 10 times now, and you have yet to refute my actual argument, instead either 1) going of on strange tangents involving disabled people, 2) arguing physiology/anatomy, or 3) ignoring the argument entirely (you don't add the 10 feet to an unlisted speed, as you ask in the above post)
Best of luck in your games; feel free to have the last word; I'm pretty sure the readers know who is being reasonable here.
First of all, when I say “comparatively crappy” I am most certainly not “falling back on an 'If you are not the best, you are useless’” argument. Don’t put words in my effing mouth. What I am saying is that compared to a whale, we suck at swimming. Much like when I say that your arguments in this matter are “comparatively crappy” when viewed next to mine. They aren’t “useless,” just nowhere near as good. 😉
Second, interdigital webbing is one of those adaptations that non-specialized vertebrates develop to aid in swimming. If they were actually specialized, they would have actual fins. Tails would fall under that category too. I am of course referring to creatures like frogs and alligators who are other “versatile” creatures who are also both better swimmers than humans. Read a book on the subject if you’d like to learn more.
Lastly, what makes you assume that whales have absolutely no land based locomotion? They very well may, but they’re just too heavy. All they really need is a little boost. Gee, isn’t there a spell that can give a creature just a little boost to their movement speed...?
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Yes, but Longstrider doesn't specify how it grants the increase to speed, I'm not arguing that Killer Whales have a walking speed irl, I'm arguing that a genuine magic spell is capable of sproviding it with one.
If a bit of surf buoyancy, the depth of water is definitely to small to classify as swimming, is sufficient to provide that much (admittedly awkward) non-swimming movement, then Longstrider is definitely able to provide the Killer Whale a 10ft 'walk speed'.
The logic is that if you have a listed speed, it grants +10ft to that speed.
To quote the Basic Rules on Speed:
Speed
Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round. This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life-threatening situation. The following rules determine how far a character or monster can move in a minute, an hour, or a day.
I've left out the "following rules" because the focus is on the fact that, when mentioned without a special movement time, speed is, RAW, assumed to be walking. The rules are also pretty clear that Swimming, Climbing and, Crawling are 'Special Types of Movement' with specific rules for them, see quote below:
Climbing, Swimming, and Crawling
Each foot of movement costs 1 extra foot (2 extra feet in difficult terrain) when you’re climbing, swimming, or crawling. You ignore this extra cost if you have a climbing speed and use it to climb or a swimming speed and use it to swim.
Where an effect provides a player with a non-walking speed, it is explicitly stated, see Fly Spell, Flying Speed for Aarakocra's, Climbing speed for Tabaxi etc
Because Climbing, Swimming etc are derived from your walking speed if you don't have one, longstrider does boost each of these but only by 5ft unless you have a specific special speed
To quote from the DMG again, from pg 279 (again):
Every monster has a walking speed. (Immobile monsters have a walking speed of 0 feet.) In addition to its walking speed, a monster might have one or more other speeds, including a burrowing, climbing, flying, or swimming speed.
The explicit wording, is that the walking speed is default (it may be 0 but it is still there) and any other speeds are additional. Fortunately, the 5e rules are pretty consistent with how they refer to things. For example, when referring to a monsters capabilities, it never uses the second person, that is always limited to referring to either the Players, The Player Characters or, The DM. I don't believe that elephants can climb at a speed of 20ft per round, but a Loxodon player could potentially.
Unsurprisingly, the rules for movement given in the Player's Handbook, are intended for the players, and worded as such (You can... when you...) and not, as is the case for Monsters (It can... When the [Monster Name Here])
Fair enough, yes, RAW Elephants have can theoretically climb 20ft per round, which would increase to 25ft with Longstrider.
Personally, due to the lack of multiple gripping appendages, I would require skill checks to do so.
Generally, I would indicate no limbs suitable for moving with a condition like Restrained, but there are very few sentient beings incapable of any movement.
To be clear, you are saying a creature is immobile because it has 0' of walking speed, but the text says the opposite: creatures that are immobile have a 0' walking speed (ostensibly because they're immobile).
I actually like this a lot and has been what I've been for all along.
No, I'm saying that the a creature has a walking speed of at least 0' regardless of how mobile they are.
Right. Then you need a DM to decide that, not an internet forum.
...Because longstrider doesn't change whether they are immobile, just increases their walking speed. Creatures can be immobile and still have a walking speed (see the text of paralyzed that someone brought up as an example).
That's not the same comparison, as paralyzed explicitly states can't move not immobilised.
Immobile being like the Shrieker, not like a Killer Whale.
A more accurate condition would be restrained, which reduces the affected creatures speed to 0, then has to specify that this can't increase.
Paralyzed does explicitly state "can't move". And your quote explicitly says "immobile". Are you saying that for some reason one of those means something other than what an average English speaker would think for some reason? Could you enlighten me as to why?
Can't move is that on their turn they cannot move but could be carried or dragged by a companion/ally/enemy without a direct issue. Like dragging a drunk friend up stairs.
Immobile includes can't be moved , which is to say that there would be difficulty inherently in the attempt to move them. A tree for DnD purposes could be said to be Immobile.
So to compare, Can't move is your unconcious friend, Immobile is the tree they are resting against.
Does that clear my perspective up any?
Rules as Written? Yup. LandWhale is a thing. Rules as Intended? Probably not. Rule of Fun? That's based on your campaign.
Each form of travel has quirks though. You don't need a Swim speed at all to Swim, but you can't Fly without a Fly Speed. Land Speed is governed by Terrain. I am perfectly free as a DM to decide in a case by case manner what effect a given type of terrain has for each individual creature. Whales will find any land based terrain difficult at best, and impassable under most circumstances. Elephants technically can climb trees, but I rule that as impassable terrain for them. Judgement calls like that are part of the purpose of having a DM in the first place.
<Insert clever signature here>
So can either an immobile creature or a creature that can't move move if it's speed is increased by 10'?
An immonile creature can't move even if it's speed is increased unless another rule trumps it. However, the specific case of the Killer Whale, and my earlier comment (very few creatures are immobile), isn't made invalid because of this.
Personally, I would say that a Shrieker is immobile but that's interpretation, I haven't yet seen in the rules a creature other than the Shrieker that as described is immobile. Note: I am interpreting immobile in terms of speed not in terms of any movement at all. There's a feature of the Shrieker that says when it's not moving, X effect, which I interprete to be moving in place (like the movement of an unconscious person in their breathing)
Yes, but the Killer Whale is able to move itself.
It neither "can't move" nor "can't be moved"
If you want to go back to arguing that point, I'll just point you back to the same beach clip, and if a shallow depth of surf (not swimming) allows that much movement, magic can manage 10ft per 6 seconds.
"This number assumes short bursts of energetic movement in the midst of a life-threatening situation."