I have recently been debating with a few friends a Dim Light problem: Can a wizard, without Darkvision, cast a spell at a target >60ft away, say a Goblin, in Dim Light?
We read in the PHB, page 183, about Dim Light causing Disadvantage on Perception checks, but I cannot find anything saying it imposes disadvantage on spell attacks or targeting things in Dim Light. Was uncertain if it mattered on which person/thing was in the dim light, the Wizard or the Goblin? Does having Darkvision allow the Wizard to target the Goblin anyway, even outside the 60 ft thing that Darkvision gives? Can the Wizard just not target anything in Dim Light, whether they are in the spells range or not?
Dim light only has one general trait: It causes anything within it to be lightly obscured (which gives disadvantage on Perception (Wisdom) checks). That is all. (Player's Handbook, page 183, or here).
There are traits that may involve dim light, such as creatures that can hide while in it, or similar, but unless a trait specifically mentions something in regards to dim light, it has no other rules baggage.
As such, assuming there's nothing else limiting a target's visibility (such as hiding or being invisible or something), there are no problems in targeting a creature in dim light (with anything, be that a weapon attack, spell attack, or a spell that requires a saving throw). The distance is irrelevant, assuming it's within your weapon's or spell's range.
There no penalties for attacking a target you can see that's in a lightly obscured area.
The disadvantage on Perception checks that rely on sight usually comes into play when trying to notice traps and clues in the environment. The DM decides which parts of the environment require a check to notice.
A lightly obscured area usually isn't obscured enough for a creature to try to hide in without the help of special features (e.g. the Skulker feat, a wood elf's Mask of the Wild, the gelatinous cube's Transparent trait.) Ultimately whether a creature can try to hide or not is up to the DM, though. If the creature somehow successfully hides in dim light then you won't be able to see it until you find it by taking the Search action.
You can try to target things you can't see by default; individual spells will tell you if they require seeing the target.
Do the rules on dim light state you get disadvantage on attack rolls? No. Do the rules state you cannot target people in dim light? No. Do the rules state you cannot see anything in dim light? No.
I'm having a very hard time understanding your confusion. It's like you've invented your own rule and then being confused by it. If the rules wanted your attacks to be at disadvantage when attacking in dim light or for characters you can see to somehow not be targetable it would say so. Since it does not and not even hint at it I don't get what is confusing you.
Dim light is just a little less light for clarity. That's it. You can still see everything around you - you just can't discern small details like reading small signs across a room or fine lines in dust for traps etc. You still see the goblin, and can still just attack it or cast spells on it.
In dim light you can see it is a goblin, you cant see if it is that specific goblin that has the scar/tattoo across it's face (at-least for me without a perception check). So you could target a goblin just fine.
Complete inability to see a creature imposes disadvantage to the attack role (a goblin that is invisible or in complete darkness).
As to which entity is in the light D&D doesn't really cover that aspect.
I have a house rule i use though.
I use that only the target needs to be in the light, and that you can see someone in dim-light out to twice the distance of the light source and bright light out to 4 times. So for example a lantern that has 30 feet of bright light (31-60 of dim light ) lets someone outside that light source see a target in dim-light out to 120 feet, or a target in bright light out to 240 feet as dim light.
Spotting light source: Lantern Bright Light: 0-30 Dim Light: 30-60 Target in Dim as dim: 60-120 Target in Bright as bright: 60-120 Target in Bright as dim: 120-240 Spot light, but not source: 480
I think this is one of those situations where you and your players are imagining dim light as something it isn't, and that has translated into a rule that doesn't need to be made. In this case, I think you're thinking dim light is 'almost darkness', where it's not. It's the fringes of a pool of light created by a torch. The light level at dusk or dawn. A particularly shadowy area. Or what those with Darkvision see in total darkness.
Dim light is still light - you're still able to see - which is why you can target creatures without problem. It's just not quite as easy to spot things, hence the disadvantage to perception checks.
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Hello,
I have recently been debating with a few friends a Dim Light problem: Can a wizard, without Darkvision, cast a spell at a target >60ft away, say a Goblin, in Dim Light?
We read in the PHB, page 183, about Dim Light causing Disadvantage on Perception checks, but I cannot find anything saying it imposes disadvantage on spell attacks or targeting things in Dim Light. Was uncertain if it mattered on which person/thing was in the dim light, the Wizard or the Goblin? Does having Darkvision allow the Wizard to target the Goblin anyway, even outside the 60 ft thing that Darkvision gives? Can the Wizard just not target anything in Dim Light, whether they are in the spells range or not?
Thanks.
You may be overthinking this.
Dim light only has one general trait: It causes anything within it to be lightly obscured (which gives disadvantage on Perception (Wisdom) checks). That is all. (Player's Handbook, page 183, or here).
There are traits that may involve dim light, such as creatures that can hide while in it, or similar, but unless a trait specifically mentions something in regards to dim light, it has no other rules baggage.
As such, assuming there's nothing else limiting a target's visibility (such as hiding or being invisible or something), there are no problems in targeting a creature in dim light (with anything, be that a weapon attack, spell attack, or a spell that requires a saving throw). The distance is irrelevant, assuming it's within your weapon's or spell's range.
There no penalties for attacking a target you can see that's in a lightly obscured area.
The disadvantage on Perception checks that rely on sight usually comes into play when trying to notice traps and clues in the environment. The DM decides which parts of the environment require a check to notice.
A lightly obscured area usually isn't obscured enough for a creature to try to hide in without the help of special features (e.g. the Skulker feat, a wood elf's Mask of the Wild, the gelatinous cube's Transparent trait.) Ultimately whether a creature can try to hide or not is up to the DM, though. If the creature somehow successfully hides in dim light then you won't be able to see it until you find it by taking the Search action.
You can try to target things you can't see by default; individual spells will tell you if they require seeing the target.
Do the rules on dim light state you get disadvantage on attack rolls? No.
Do the rules state you cannot target people in dim light? No.
Do the rules state you cannot see anything in dim light? No.
I'm having a very hard time understanding your confusion. It's like you've invented your own rule and then being confused by it. If the rules wanted your attacks to be at disadvantage when attacking in dim light or for characters you can see to somehow not be targetable it would say so. Since it does not and not even hint at it I don't get what is confusing you.
Dim light is just a little less light for clarity. That's it. You can still see everything around you - you just can't discern small details like reading small signs across a room or fine lines in dust for traps etc. You still see the goblin, and can still just attack it or cast spells on it.
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Think of it like this.
In dim light you can see it is a goblin, you cant see if it is that specific goblin that has the scar/tattoo across it's face (at-least for me without a perception check).
So you could target a goblin just fine.
Complete inability to see a creature imposes disadvantage to the attack role (a goblin that is invisible or in complete darkness).
As to which entity is in the light D&D doesn't really cover that aspect.
I have a house rule i use though.
I use that only the target needs to be in the light, and that you can see someone in dim-light out to twice the distance of the light source and bright light out to 4 times. So for example a lantern that has 30 feet of bright light (31-60 of dim light ) lets someone outside that light source see a target in dim-light out to 120 feet, or a target in bright light out to 240 feet as dim light.
Spotting light source:
Lantern
Bright Light: 0-30
Dim Light: 30-60
Target in Dim as dim: 60-120
Target in Bright as bright: 60-120
Target in Bright as dim: 120-240
Spot light, but not source: 480
As one can see it can get complex in theory
- Loswaith
I think this is one of those situations where you and your players are imagining dim light as something it isn't, and that has translated into a rule that doesn't need to be made. In this case, I think you're thinking dim light is 'almost darkness', where it's not. It's the fringes of a pool of light created by a torch. The light level at dusk or dawn. A particularly shadowy area. Or what those with Darkvision see in total darkness.
Dim light is still light - you're still able to see - which is why you can target creatures without problem. It's just not quite as easy to spot things, hence the disadvantage to perception checks.