I prepared Inflict Wounds since level 1. And yet, on 2nd character level, I didn't used it.
Since I was on 1st level a spell slot is so precious to simply waste it. And cast a hit or miss spell is a waste when you have only 2 slots. Worst yet: the tougher enemy that we fought have less than 15 hp. My main attack (a shortsword) is more reliable since I can hold the spell for a cure or for Bane (that can reduce the attacks and saves from 3 enemies).
I imagine that it will grow useful on level 3. On level 1 it's a waste.
Technically since Bane is a concentration spell, it is possible that you could lose it before it has a chance to pay off and at only a 30ft. range it does mean you have to be really close to three people to get the max. usage out of it. Bane might still be slightly better, but only slightly.
It really depends on your party and how you build play your Cleric. I have a level 4 Variant Human Arcana Cleric too and I've gotten nothing but great mileage out of Bane. My party has a Druid and Bard and they like to use Faerie Fire, Vicious Mockery and Dissonant Whispers, and Bane increases the chances of those working. The Moon Druid's AC is only 13-14 while transformed, so the attack roll penalty helps him quite a bit.
After I cast the spell I back up and use Sacred Flame or Chill Touch depending on how high the enemy's Dexterity save or how low their AC is. Bane helps Sacred Flame, and since it's not a ranged attack I can take cover behind other party members or obstacles without penalizing myself. Chill Touch has a range of 120 feet so I can go as far as I want. If someone reaches me it's no big deal, my AC is 17 (chain shirt + 2 Dex bonus + shield) and I also have Shocking Grasp to retreat while attacking.
I took Resilient as my level 4 feat to become proficient in Constitution saves (now +4, will be +5 next level), so I'm even less likely to lose concentration.
I don't know how common that would be for most people playing the game though. Also I believe the discussion was talking about the spells as being 1st level, so what you can do by 4th level might change the outcome, at level one, inflict could be better than bane, because of having to keep it up.
I don't know how common that would be for most people playing the game though. Also I believe the discussion was talking about the spells as being 1st level, so what you can do by 4th level might change the outcome, at level one, inflict could be better than bane, because of having to keep it up.
At level 1 it can also be much worse, since if you miss you're out 1 out of 2 spell slots and you're stuck in front of an enemy. Even CR 1/4 enemies do enough damage to KO you in 2 hits without +3 CON and groups of identical monsters can gang up on you since they all have the same initiative. A CR1 monster is probably alone but can do enough damage to KO you in 1 hit.
If you could get Advantage somehow (e.g. a familiar uses Help) Inflict Wounds is most likely the best choice, but otherwise I think Bane is a safer bet.
you still have to be within 30 ft. with bane so you aren't exactly a safe distance away, and each time a hit is scored against you have you have to make at least a DC 10 con save. So high con would certainly help here, but most spell casters end up with con being their second highest. Also your opponents can still overcome bane, but with three targets odds are at least one will fail. But if bane fails you still wasted a spell.
Depending on the situation though, I can see either spell being better than the other one. But I don't think Bane necessarily surpasses inflict wounds.
you still have to be within 30 ft. with bane so you aren't exactly a safe distance away, and each time a hit is scored against you have you have to make at least a DC 10 con save. So high con would certainly help here, but most spell casters end up with con being their second highest. Also your opponents can still overcome bane, but with three targets odds are at least one will fail. But if bane fails you still wasted a spell.
Depending on the situation though, I can see either spell being better than the other one. But I don't think Bane necessarily surpasses inflict wounds.
But you can often place other party members or obstacles between you and the targets, and you can also move back after casting it (on the same turn).
It's true Bane can fail, but most enemies have bad Charisma saving throws. The exceptions are almost always higher level monsters - fiends, true giants, true dragons, genies and CR10+ undead. If you can target multiple enemies, the chances of wasting the spell slot completely are low.
Last night, our party came against an Adult Red Dragon. We 6 were all 5th level. Thankfully three NPC's were roasted by the Dragons breath attack, leaving our party to begin our first attack, with no damage. Planning helped a lot. There is no doubt that a combination of planning, teamwork, luck on our part and bad luck on the DM's rolls led to our success but I did 85 points of damage, in two turns, which was very lucky. I mention this as I had never used Inflict Wounds before I read this thread. I did not understand how to properly use it until the advice given in this thread enlightened me. So thank you to all for your help. (I edited this down as I realized after posting it was most likely a boring tale of the encounter.)
How dare you assume that would have been boring!
Well then...it all started in an inn by the seacoast town of...lol...Seriously though, we knew the Adult Red Dragon was in the large chamber. We all had potions of fire resistance or scrolls. Used them and then I cast Enhance Ability with Cat's Grace on myself. Our three bravest: Fighter, Barbarian and Ranger charged in taking cover behind three large columns. Our Ranger did first damage against the Dragon and more than half of us won initiative. I came in next and being out of range cast Bless on myself the Fighter and Barbarian. The Ranger was out of range of my spell. Our Warlock came in and cast Eldrich Blast. Our Druid cast Faerie Fire. (It became clear after the encounter and I did some research that our DM could have used his legendary feature to automatically succeed on three saving throws but he did not. Had he done so, we would most likely have been toast. The Dragon roasted 3 NPCs that had come in first, lol. That helped a lot too. Poor NPCs. The Dragon came forward and bit, clawed our fighter and Druid. I Inflicted Wounds with about 27 points of damage on my first attack, the Fighter, Ranger and Barbarian all did awesome damage, no one ever missed. At this point the Dragon was already so low in just two rounds that it tried the Wind Legendary attack and then tried to fly away. Because of Bless only our Warlock was knocked down. Our DM told us the Dragon flew away into a hole in the ceiling and then our Fighter asked if we got an opportunity attack first. The DM agreed so the Barbarian, Fighter and myself all got an opportunity attack. With Faerie fire already we couldn't miss. It was awesome. I had last turn and told the DM I jumped up and grabbed the Dragon by the tail casting Inflict Wounds as a 3rd level spell. I did over 40 points of damage and our DM asked Critical Roll style: "How do you want to do it?" I should have said: "I grab the Dragon by the tail and as he gets 20 feet in the air I yell 'evil beast Pelor will not allow you to harm innocents any longer!' I cast Inflict Wounds, bringing it down as I jump to the ground with my Cats Grace landing Iron Man style. Finishing with a prayer to Pelor." But I simple said "I used the power of the spell to bring him down." Missed opportunity to be cool. It was fun and once again the advice here helped. Thanks again.
I prepared Inflict Wounds since level 1. And yet, on 2nd character level, I didn't used it.
Since I was on 1st level a spell slot is so precious to simply waste it. And cast a hit or miss spell is a waste when you have only 2 slots. Worst yet: the tougher enemy that we fought have less than 15 hp. My main attack (a shortsword) is more reliable since I can hold the spell for a cure or for Bane (that can reduce the attacks and saves from 3 enemies).
I imagine that it will grow useful on level 3. On level 1 it's a waste.
Technically since Bane is a concentration spell, it is possible that you could lose it before it has a chance to pay off and at only a 30ft. range it does mean you have to be really close to three people to get the max. usage out of it. Bane might still be slightly better, but only slightly.
Yeah... it's a concentration... but it's easy have an AC 17 with a level 1 cleric (my case), the low CR enemies has +3 to attack, one or another have +4... plus, they will have 1d4 penalty on attack, this spell have the potential no make the enemy hit with a +0 or even -1.
And, of course, you can try to stay away from enemies, strategically speaking.
My DM is said inflict wounds cannot be use by a life cleric since it uses death magic? I have be playing for months, and I can not find anywhere it said a life can’t use inflict wound or necromancy spells?
My DM is said inflict wounds cannot be use by a life cleric since it uses death magic? I have be playing for months, and I can not find anywhere it said a life can’t use inflict wound or necromancy spells?
That was kind of a rule back in 2nd edition. Not any more.
Spells can crit if there is an attack roll made. For instance, fire bolt requires an attack roll plus modifier to hit. If you roll a natural 20, the critical hit boosts the damage to 2d10 instead of 1d10. There are spells that do not have an attack roll; sacred flame, for instance, requires a saving throw and therefore cannot have critical damage (I've discussed with some DMs that if a target rolls a natural 1 on the saving throw, then the damage IS critical, but that's merely a house rule).
And as InquisitiveCoder said, there is no mechanical rule that states Life Clerics cannot cast Inflict Wounds, a DM might invent a justifiable narrative consequence however.
Cleric can easily be made useless with divine soul sorc. Gaining access to the cleric list, sorcery points and meta magic. Thus you can make inflict wounds a twinned spell or make it a ranged spell up to 30ft.
Top that with a 3 level dip( or 5 if you want extra attack) in to pally, and any oath works (oath breaker is pointless if your doing this, you only gain hellish rebuke which if your a fire genasi you get it regardless).
So now your a fire genasi sorcpally divine soul/oath you can smite, cast inflict wounds, and heal. This puts fighter, and cleric to shame.
i'm a war cleric (level 9) and i use cure wounds, healing word, spirit guardians and inflict wounds and I USE INFLICT WOUNDS MOST OF THE TIME, i mean at 4 level spell slot is 6d10 and that is a lot!
i'm a war cleric (level 9) and i use cure wounds, healing word, spirit guardians and inflict wounds and I USE INFLICT WOUNDS MOST OF THE TIME, i mean at 4 level spell slot is 6d10 and that is a lot!
6d10 is certainly nothing to sneeze at. But it’s not as much as it sounds.
Assuming a 50% hit rate (because that’s usually reasonable and it makes the math easier), the expected damage of a 4th-level Inflict Wounds is 16.5. A fighter with 20 strength (easily attainable by 9th-level) and a greatsword has an expected damage of 5.75 for each of their two attacks, or 11.5 for their whole action.
Inflict Wounds only does 5 more damage than the fighter’s greatsword, and the cleric has to expend a 4th-level spell slot to do it, something they can only do three times a day. The fighter can keep up their attacks all night long.
It's interesting to me that spells that just deal a lot of damage are more likely to be seen as unbalanced compared to stuff that has more esoteric, but interesting abilities. One example that's already been brought up in this thread is Faerie Fire... no damage at all, but targeting a small group of enemies and giving your entire party advantage against them for as long as you can maintain concentration will likely add up to a lot more damage than you'd get out of landing a solid Inflict Wounds.
Personally I see IW as more of a Hail Mary play. If your party cleric is pinned down by a powerful enemy and they've got no chance to escape, it might be worth the risk of burning your last spell slot to just try to do as much damage as possible, either to hopefully knock them out, or at least weaken them enough to make it easy for the rest of the party to finish the job.
i'm a war cleric (level 9) and i use cure wounds, healing word, spirit guardians and inflict wounds and I USE INFLICT WOUNDS MOST OF THE TIME, i mean at 4 level spell slot is 6d10 and that is a lot!
6d10 is certainly nothing to sneeze at. But it’s not as much as it sounds.
Assuming a 50% hit rate (because that’s usually reasonable and it makes the math easier), the expected damage of a 4th-level Inflict Wounds is 16.5. A fighter with 20 strength (easily attainable by 9th-level) and a greatsword has an expected damage of 5.75 for each of their two attacks, or 11.5 for their whole action.
Inflict Wounds only does 5 more damage than the fighter’s greatsword, and the cleric has to expend a 4th-level spell slot to do it, something they can only do three times a day. The fighter can keep up their attacks all night long.
well sure but its is just my opinion
and how the F*** do you get 16.5 from 6d10s i mean if you just get 5 on all of them is still 30 damage
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After I cast the spell I back up and use Sacred Flame or Chill Touch depending on how high the enemy's Dexterity save or how low their AC is. Bane helps Sacred Flame, and since it's not a ranged attack I can take cover behind other party members or obstacles without penalizing myself. Chill Touch has a range of 120 feet so I can go as far as I want. If someone reaches me it's no big deal, my AC is 17 (chain shirt + 2 Dex bonus + shield) and I also have Shocking Grasp to retreat while attacking.
I took Resilient as my level 4 feat to become proficient in Constitution saves (now +4, will be +5 next level), so I'm even less likely to lose concentration.
I don't know how common that would be for most people playing the game though. Also I believe the discussion was talking about the spells as being 1st level, so what you can do by 4th level might change the outcome, at level one, inflict could be better than bane, because of having to keep it up.
At level 1 it can also be much worse, since if you miss you're out 1 out of 2 spell slots and you're stuck in front of an enemy. Even CR 1/4 enemies do enough damage to KO you in 2 hits without +3 CON and groups of identical monsters can gang up on you since they all have the same initiative. A CR1 monster is probably alone but can do enough damage to KO you in 1 hit.
If you could get Advantage somehow (e.g. a familiar uses Help) Inflict Wounds is most likely the best choice, but otherwise I think Bane is a safer bet.
you still have to be within 30 ft. with bane so you aren't exactly a safe distance away, and each time a hit is scored against you have you have to make at least a DC 10 con save. So high con would certainly help here, but most spell casters end up with con being their second highest. Also your opponents can still overcome bane, but with three targets odds are at least one will fail. But if bane fails you still wasted a spell.
Depending on the situation though, I can see either spell being better than the other one. But I don't think Bane necessarily surpasses inflict wounds.
Everytime my DM uses this against us, he rolls over 14. Often he rolls at least 20... I only have 36 hp. This spell is bullshit!
I think some of you are missing a point.
Yes you have to be within 5 feet...
But we are talking about a cleric here. A cleric who can wear heavy armor.
Why are you worried about being in melee range?
The cleric in my campaign has an armor class of 18 without a shield.
My DM is said inflict wounds cannot be use by a life cleric since it uses death magic? I have be playing for months, and I can not find anywhere it said a life can’t use inflict wound or necromancy spells?
That was kind of a rule back in 2nd edition. Not any more.
Thank you.
I thought spells could not crit
Spells can crit if there is an attack roll made. For instance, fire bolt requires an attack roll plus modifier to hit. If you roll a natural 20, the critical hit boosts the damage to 2d10 instead of 1d10. There are spells that do not have an attack roll; sacred flame, for instance, requires a saving throw and therefore cannot have critical damage (I've discussed with some DMs that if a target rolls a natural 1 on the saving throw, then the damage IS critical, but that's merely a house rule).
And as InquisitiveCoder said, there is no mechanical rule that states Life Clerics cannot cast Inflict Wounds, a DM might invent a justifiable narrative consequence however.
ok thank you
Cleric can easily be made useless with divine soul sorc. Gaining access to the cleric list, sorcery points and meta magic. Thus you can make inflict wounds a twinned spell or make it a ranged spell up to 30ft.
Top that with a 3 level dip( or 5 if you want extra attack) in to pally, and any oath works (oath breaker is pointless if your doing this, you only gain hellish rebuke which if your a fire genasi you get it regardless).
So now your a fire genasi sorcpally divine soul/oath you can smite, cast inflict wounds, and heal. This puts fighter, and cleric to shame.
i'm a war cleric (level 9) and i use cure wounds, healing word, spirit guardians and inflict wounds and I USE INFLICT WOUNDS MOST OF THE TIME, i mean at 4 level spell slot is 6d10 and that is a lot!
6d10 is certainly nothing to sneeze at. But it’s not as much as it sounds.
Assuming a 50% hit rate (because that’s usually reasonable and it makes the math easier), the expected damage of a 4th-level Inflict Wounds is 16.5. A fighter with 20 strength (easily attainable by 9th-level) and a greatsword has an expected damage of 5.75 for each of their two attacks, or 11.5 for their whole action.
Inflict Wounds only does 5 more damage than the fighter’s greatsword, and the cleric has to expend a 4th-level spell slot to do it, something they can only do three times a day. The fighter can keep up their attacks all night long.
It's interesting to me that spells that just deal a lot of damage are more likely to be seen as unbalanced compared to stuff that has more esoteric, but interesting abilities. One example that's already been brought up in this thread is Faerie Fire... no damage at all, but targeting a small group of enemies and giving your entire party advantage against them for as long as you can maintain concentration will likely add up to a lot more damage than you'd get out of landing a solid Inflict Wounds.
Personally I see IW as more of a Hail Mary play. If your party cleric is pinned down by a powerful enemy and they've got no chance to escape, it might be worth the risk of burning your last spell slot to just try to do as much damage as possible, either to hopefully knock them out, or at least weaken them enough to make it easy for the rest of the party to finish the job.
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well sure but its is just my opinion
and how the F*** do you get 16.5 from 6d10s i mean if you just get 5 on all of them is still 30 damage