So me and my group have just left 3.0 to go over to 5e. And in 3.0 there is natural armor, normal armor, dex armor and 2-3 more. So my DM says that because there is only +# AC in 5e, means that you cannot stack it together. Like a studded leather armor, plus mage armor wouldn't stack. And it doesn't sound right to me though. Because why would mage armor and shield not stack? Shield would LARGELY lose it's power in my opinion. It would be useless but.... erh. So I'm hoping someone here can help us clarify this problem. ^^
You can only use one AC calculation at a time (e.g. armor, Unarmored Defense, Mage Armor, Draconic Resilience, Natural Armor.) You can stack unlimited bonuses on top of that as long as they're not from two of the same spell, magic item, or any other game feature with the same name.
You can combine Mage Armor with a shield or the Shield spell, but not with Draconic Resilience or Unarmored Defense.
Some spells and class features give you a different way to calculate your AC. If you have multiple features that give you different ways to calculate your AC, you choose which one to use.
So if I have studded leather armor on and I use mage armor, but I can't use shield? But I can use mage armor, while wearing simple clothing, and then top it off with shield? Or do I have to get different bonuses from different spell lists. So if I was a sorcerer and a cleric I could use chain shirt armor, while having shield of faith, AND top it off with mage armor.
It's mostly because that bladesingers get their int modifier to their AC. And they become proficient in light armor. So does that mean that they don't benefit from mage armor while their blade song is active?
Sorry if it's too confusing. I'm really confused myself! xD
Mage armor specifically references a target “not wearing armour”. I believe the standard interpretation is that a shield is not “armour”.
Basically, shields are ok because they only add a plus. But you can only have one feature or spell that changes your base AC. Mage armor does this. But you can add bonuses on top, like the shield bonus.
Bladesingers get a bonus to AC. Thus, on my reading, you should be able to get the bladesong bonus on top of mage armor (or whatever armour you happen to be wearing)
Mage Armor doesn't work on a creature that's wearing armor. Even if it did, light armor and Mage Armor give you two different ways to calculate your AC so you'd have to pick one of them.
You can stack as many bonuses as you want on top of that. It doesn't matter what's giving you the bonus as long as you remember that you can't stack anything with itself. You can benefit from Bladesong, the Shield spell, Shield of Faith, Haste, Warding Bond, a Ring of Protection and a Cloak of Protection all at once. You can't stack any of those things with themselves though. Having two Shield of Faith spells at the same time is no better than having only one.
That goes for any kind of bonus, not just AC. Bonus types are gone. Everything stacks, except with itself.
Mage armor specifically references a target “not wearing armour”. I believe the standard interpretation is that a shield is not “armour”.
Sage Advice Compendium addresses this so I'll just quote that instead of trying to paraphrase.
Can you use a shield with mage armor?
Mage armor works with a shield. Shields are grouped with armor in the equipment rules in the Player’s Handbook, but various game features distinguish between the armor you wear and a shield you wield. Take a look at the monk’s Unarmored Defense feature and compare it to the barbarian’s version. In the monk’s version, you must both forgo wearing armor and forgo wielding a shield if you want to benefit from the feature, whereas a barbarian must only forgo wearing armor.
You can also cast Mage Armor on someone with natural armor since natural armor isn't something you wear; it's part of your body.
Basically, there are three steps in calculating your Armor Class.
1: Base AC. This is usually determined by your armor (e.g. studded leather: 12+Dex, or splint: 17), but sometimes by class features (e.g. monk Unarmored Defense: 10+Dex+Wis) or spells (e.g. mage armor: 13+Dex). You only get one of these. Usually if you have multiple base AC calculations available you get the highest value, but in some cases having access to one base AC calculation removes the access to another (e.g. a monk with Wis +3 and Dex +4 wearing leather armor would have AC 15 (11+Dex) despite their unarmored AC being higher (17), because they can't use their unarmored defense while wearing armor).
2: AC bonuses. This is where things like shield of faith, ring of protection, or mundane shields come in. Note that unlike 3e, there are no bonus types - stacking is generally limited by magical AC bonuses requiring attunement or concentration.
3: Final AC: This step basically consists of a single spell, barkskin which sets your AC to 16 if it would otherwise be lower. Yes, that's a bit weird.
Basically, there are three steps in calculating your Armor Class.
1: Base AC. This is usually determined by your armor (e.g. studded leather: 12+Dex, or splint: 17), but sometimes by class features (e.g. monk Unarmored Defense: 10+Dex+Wis) or spells (e.g. mage armor: 13+Dex). You only get one of these. Usually if you have multiple base AC calculations available you get the highest value, but in some cases having access to one base AC calculation removes the access to another (e.g. a monk with Wis +3 and Dex +4 wearing leather armor would have AC 15 (11+Dex) despite their unarmored AC being higher (17), because they can't use their unarmored defense while wearing armor).
2: AC bonuses. This is where things like shield of faith, ring of protection, or mundane shields come in. Note that unlike 3e, there are no bonus types - stacking is generally limited by magical AC bonuses requiring attunement or concentration.
3: Final AC: This step basically consists of a single spell, barkskin which sets your AC to 16 if it would otherwise be lower. Yes, that's a bit weird.
This ^^^ or most basic way to think of it - if it tells you what your AC is then that's your AC. Then add any modifiers that you have (i.e. +2 from Dex or +2 from Shield). Mage Armor for instance just tells you your AC. It's much simpler than past systems and also means you don't have crazy ACs (nor do the bad guys).
I don’t know. A high level wizard with Mage Armor, Shield, a +3 from their dexterity, and a Ring of Protection has an AC of 22 as long as they have spell slots available and there are a few other magic items that give bonuses to AC that keep stacking on top of that too.
You can get AC easily in the 30-50s in other editions including Pathfinder. I think 22 AC isn’t crazy in relation but within the current 5e it’s pretty hard to beat.
If a wizard starts with a Robe of the Archmagi and and has every item that I found that wizard can have an AC of 29 which is pretty close to untouchable without a natural 20. It's not in the 30's, but it's high.
If you hand-pick magic items you can build some relatively broken characters, yes, but you're not guaranteed to be able to shop for or even quest for specific magic items in 5e and the attunement limit also puts a practical limit on how much you can stack. Even if you pull off 30 AC, there's no shortage of CR 20 to 30 monsters with attack bonuses ranging from 14 to 19, and plenty of fun saving throw abilities that'll bypass your AC completely.
If a wizard starts with a Robe of the Archmagi and and has every item that I found that wizard can have an AC of 29 which is pretty close to untouchable without a natural 20. It's not in the 30's, but it's high.
Really? I can get to 23 using items and Dexterity that's way higher than most wizards will have. You get to 20 with the robe of the archmagi with Dex 20, +2 for bracers of defense, and +1 more from any of a number of items like ring of protection, cloak of protection, or such. If the party cleric (or paladin) is willing to use their concentration on helping you you can get another +2 from shield of faith, but that seems like a big ask.
Or are you including shield in that? I see shield more as a set of ablative hit points - hit the wizard until they run out of spell slots for shield. At least, that's usually how things work out for my poor NPC casters.
If a wizard starts with a Robe of the Archmagi and and has every item that I found that wizard can have an AC of 29 which is pretty close to untouchable without a natural 20. It's not in the 30's, but it's high.
Really? I can get to 23 using items and Dexterity that's way higher than most wizards will have. You get to 20 with the robe of the archmagi with Dex 20, +2 for bracers of defense, and +1 more from any of a number of items like ring of protection, cloak of protection, or such. If the party cleric (or paladin) is willing to use their concentration on helping you you can get another +2 from shield of faith, but that seems like a big ask.
Or are you including shield in that? I see shield more as a set of ablative hit points - hit the wizard until they run out of spell slots for shield. At least, that's usually how things work out for my poor NPC casters.
With Spell Mastery a high level Wizard can cast Shield every round without expending spell slots.
So I am attempting to convert a few of our characters from Pathfinder to 5E, I have most of the basic stuff sorted but some of the magical stuff I am making by modifying an already existing item.
On one character they had a Ring of Protection +2 ( Used a RoP +1 and edited the AC and that seems to work fine ) next up was the Elven Chain Mail +2. This was custom from Pathfinder and it allowed full Dex Mod and Stealth Check None. So I did the edits but I am only seeing a change of 1 to AC when I equip and unequip it.
If everything was edited correctly would the system allow the stacking of the +2 from The ring AND the Armor or is that a change in the system on bonuses ?
So I am attempting to convert a few of our characters from Pathfinder to 5E, I have most of the basic stuff sorted but some of the magical stuff I am making by modifying an already existing item.
On one character they had a Ring of Protection +2 ( Used a RoP +1 and edited the AC and that seems to work fine ) next up was the Elven Chain Mail +2. This was custom from Pathfinder and it allowed full Dex Mod and Stealth Check None. So I did the edits but I am only seeing a change of 1 to AC when I equip and unequip it.
If everything was edited correctly would the system allow the stacking of the +2 from The ring AND the Armor or is that a change in the system on bonuses ?
Thanks
-Robert
Have you attuned to any of the items that require attunement?
I would recommend posting a link to the affected character for more assistance.
The AC bonuses from magical armor and a Ring of Protection should stack.
Dont forget to customize the saving throw bonus of your custom ring.
They do stack. You can only use one item, ability, spell etc. that has a formula for calculating your baseline AC(armor that you wear, natural armor, the Mage Armor spell, Unarmored Defense, etc), but you can make use of multiple items that offer a "bonus" to AC, such as a shield, a Ring of Protection etc. as long as they aren't disallowed by something else you're using. For example, a Barbarian making use of Unarmored Defense to calculate his AC can also use a shield and get its +2 bonus. But the Monk's version of Unarmored Defense does not work when you're using a shield. Both of them work with a Ring Of Protection, though.
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So me and my group have just left 3.0 to go over to 5e. And in 3.0 there is natural armor, normal armor, dex armor and 2-3 more.
So my DM says that because there is only +# AC in 5e, means that you cannot stack it together. Like a studded leather armor, plus mage armor wouldn't stack.
And it doesn't sound right to me though. Because why would mage armor and shield not stack? Shield would LARGELY lose it's power in my opinion. It would be useless but.... erh.
So I'm hoping someone here can help us clarify this problem. ^^
You can only use one AC calculation at a time (e.g. armor, Unarmored Defense, Mage Armor, Draconic Resilience, Natural Armor.) You can stack unlimited bonuses on top of that as long as they're not from two of the same spell, magic item, or any other game feature with the same name.
You can combine Mage Armor with a shield or the Shield spell, but not with Draconic Resilience or Unarmored Defense.
For reference, the rules are here:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/step-by-step-characters#ArmorClass
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So if I have studded leather armor on and I use mage armor, but I can't use shield? But I can use mage armor, while wearing simple clothing, and then top it off with shield?
Or do I have to get different bonuses from different spell lists. So if I was a sorcerer and a cleric I could use chain shirt armor, while having shield of faith, AND top it off with mage armor.
It's mostly because that bladesingers get their int modifier to their AC. And they become proficient in light armor. So does that mean that they don't benefit from mage armor while their blade song is active?
Sorry if it's too confusing. I'm really confused myself! xD
Mage armor specifically references a target “not wearing armour”. I believe the standard interpretation is that a shield is not “armour”.
Basically, shields are ok because they only add a plus. But you can only have one feature or spell that changes your base AC. Mage armor does this. But you can add bonuses on top, like the shield bonus.
Bladesingers get a bonus to AC. Thus, on my reading, you should be able to get the bladesong bonus on top of mage armor (or whatever armour you happen to be wearing)
Mage Armor doesn't work on a creature that's wearing armor. Even if it did, light armor and Mage Armor give you two different ways to calculate your AC so you'd have to pick one of them.
You can stack as many bonuses as you want on top of that. It doesn't matter what's giving you the bonus as long as you remember that you can't stack anything with itself. You can benefit from Bladesong, the Shield spell, Shield of Faith, Haste, Warding Bond, a Ring of Protection and a Cloak of Protection all at once. You can't stack any of those things with themselves though. Having two Shield of Faith spells at the same time is no better than having only one.
That goes for any kind of bonus, not just AC. Bonus types are gone. Everything stacks, except with itself.
Sage Advice Compendium addresses this so I'll just quote that instead of trying to paraphrase.
You can also cast Mage Armor on someone with natural armor since natural armor isn't something you wear; it's part of your body.
Ah! Thank you! ^^ This really helps! Your service has been most helpful, Thank you! ^^
Basically, there are three steps in calculating your Armor Class.
1: Base AC. This is usually determined by your armor (e.g. studded leather: 12+Dex, or splint: 17), but sometimes by class features (e.g. monk Unarmored Defense: 10+Dex+Wis) or spells (e.g. mage armor: 13+Dex). You only get one of these. Usually if you have multiple base AC calculations available you get the highest value, but in some cases having access to one base AC calculation removes the access to another (e.g. a monk with Wis +3 and Dex +4 wearing leather armor would have AC 15 (11+Dex) despite their unarmored AC being higher (17), because they can't use their unarmored defense while wearing armor).
2: AC bonuses. This is where things like shield of faith, ring of protection, or mundane shields come in. Note that unlike 3e, there are no bonus types - stacking is generally limited by magical AC bonuses requiring attunement or concentration.
3: Final AC: This step basically consists of a single spell, barkskin which sets your AC to 16 if it would otherwise be lower. Yes, that's a bit weird.
This ^^^ or most basic way to think of it - if it tells you what your AC is then that's your AC. Then add any modifiers that you have (i.e. +2 from Dex or +2 from Shield). Mage Armor for instance just tells you your AC. It's much simpler than past systems and also means you don't have crazy ACs (nor do the bad guys).
I don’t know. A high level wizard with Mage Armor, Shield, a +3 from their dexterity, and a Ring of Protection has an AC of 22 as long as they have spell slots available and there are a few other magic items that give bonuses to AC that keep stacking on top of that too.
Professional computer geek
You can get AC easily in the 30-50s in other editions including Pathfinder. I think 22 AC isn’t crazy in relation but within the current 5e it’s pretty hard to beat.
If a wizard starts with a Robe of the Archmagi and and has every item that I found that wizard can have an AC of 29 which is pretty close to untouchable without a natural 20. It's not in the 30's, but it's high.
Professional computer geek
If you hand-pick magic items you can build some relatively broken characters, yes, but you're not guaranteed to be able to shop for or even quest for specific magic items in 5e and the attunement limit also puts a practical limit on how much you can stack. Even if you pull off 30 AC, there's no shortage of CR 20 to 30 monsters with attack bonuses ranging from 14 to 19, and plenty of fun saving throw abilities that'll bypass your AC completely.
Really? I can get to 23 using items and Dexterity that's way higher than most wizards will have. You get to 20 with the robe of the archmagi with Dex 20, +2 for bracers of defense, and +1 more from any of a number of items like ring of protection, cloak of protection, or such. If the party cleric (or paladin) is willing to use their concentration on helping you you can get another +2 from shield of faith, but that seems like a big ask.
Or are you including shield in that? I see shield more as a set of ablative hit points - hit the wizard until they run out of spell slots for shield. At least, that's usually how things work out for my poor NPC casters.
With Spell Mastery a high level Wizard can cast Shield every round without expending spell slots.
Professional computer geek
Good point. I'm not super-worried about what happens at level 18+, though. That seems like more of a theoretical issue.
So I am attempting to convert a few of our characters from Pathfinder to 5E, I have most of the basic stuff sorted but some of the magical stuff I am making by modifying an already existing item.
On one character they had a Ring of Protection +2 ( Used a RoP +1 and edited the AC and that seems to work fine ) next up was the Elven Chain Mail +2. This was custom from Pathfinder and it allowed full Dex Mod and Stealth Check None. So I did the edits but I am only seeing a change of 1 to AC when I equip and unequip it.
If everything was edited correctly would the system allow the stacking of the +2 from The ring AND the Armor or is that a change in the system on bonuses ?
Thanks
-Robert
The AC bonuses from magical armor and a Ring of Protection should stack.
Dont forget to customize the saving throw bonus of your custom ring.
Professional computer geek
Have you attuned to any of the items that require attunement?
I would recommend posting a link to the affected character for more assistance.
They do stack. You can only use one item, ability, spell etc. that has a formula for calculating your baseline AC(armor that you wear, natural armor, the Mage Armor spell, Unarmored Defense, etc), but you can make use of multiple items that offer a "bonus" to AC, such as a shield, a Ring of Protection etc. as long as they aren't disallowed by something else you're using. For example, a Barbarian making use of Unarmored Defense to calculate his AC can also use a shield and get its +2 bonus. But the Monk's version of Unarmored Defense does not work when you're using a shield. Both of them work with a Ring Of Protection, though.