I was trying to figure out if the net used Dex or Strength for the attack roll, originally I just assumed it would be Strength cause it just made sense to me, but it's in the ranged weapon section and ranged weapons use Dex. Another thing that occurred to me is that since it's a ranged weapon it has disadvantage m targets within 5ft, but it's normal range is 5ft so you'll always have disadvantage attacking unless you have the Crossbow Expert feat or Sharpshooter feat.
I'm also wondering if you can use the Sharpshooter bonus damage with the net, it doesn't specially say the attack has to do damage it just says it has to hit, although it doesn't have a damage type so it would be hard to argue. But since Hex also just says when an attack hits and doesn't specifically says deals damage, and Hex deals a specific damage type, so RAW it should technically be an option, although most DMs would be against it.
I'm also still somewhat confused as to the attack limit on the net, but that's another matter. Anyway, what how do you guys think the net is supposed to work RAI?
If thrown, you always use dexterity. Ranged attacks always use the dexterity modifier. If you are using it as if you are in close combat and aren’t throwing it, you use strength.
If thrown, you always use dexterity. Ranged attacks always use the dexterity modifier. If you are using it as if you are in close combat and aren’t throwing it, you use strength.
Thrown weapons use their regular modifiers, a thrown handaxe use strength, and since a dagger has the finesse property a thrown dagger uses strength or Dex. Although since a net is a ranged weapon, it's regular modifier would presumably be Dex.
Range. A weapon that can be used to make a ranged attack has a range in parentheses after the ammunition or thrown property. The range lists two numbers. The first is the weapon's normal range in feet, and the second indicates the weapon's long range. When attacking a target beyond normal range, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. You can't attack a target beyond the weapon's long range.
2. It has the Thrown property.
Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property.
The ability modifier used for a melee weapon attack is Strength, and the ability modifier used for a ranged weapon attack is Dexterity. Weapons that have the finesse or thrown property break this rule.
Bringing that together - as the net is a Range weapon, the default ability used to attack with it is Dexterity. Checking the text for the Thrown property, the majority of the rule is prefaced with, "If the weapon is a melee weapon..." which it isn't so those rules are disregarded. The net also doesn't have the Finesse property, so there is no rule that would allow the strength ability score to be substituted in.
Conclusion: attacks are made using the dexterity ability bonus.
As noted, ranged attacks at a range of 5' are at disadvantage and also range attacks made at over normal range (in this case over 5' for the net) are also at disadvantage. I am guessing this is because being hit by a net can pretty much disable a combatant, with it being restrained.
As noted, ranged attacks at a range of 5' are at disadvantage
While this is usually how it plays out, that's not strictly correct. Ranged attacks made while a hostile creature who can see you and isn't incapacitated is within 5' of you have Disadvantage.
So you can attack at 5' without Disadvantage in several situations:
Attacking a friendly creature (probably only works once... they're sure be hostile after one attack!)
Attacking a blinded creature (attack is actually made with Advantage, from the blinded condition)
Attacking a prone creature (attacks on a prone creature within 5' have Advantage, which cancels out the Disadvantage)
Attacking while invisible (again, attack with Advantage, from the condition)
Attacking while having the Crossbow Expert Feat (removes Disadvantage from having hostile creatures within 5')
On the other hand, attacking at range over 5' (even with a weapon with a longer reach, like, say, a longbow) can have Disadvantage if there's a hostile creature who can see you and isn't incapacitated within 5' of you, even if that creature is not your target.
TL;DR: it's not that attacking point blank gives you Disadvantage, it's that attacking with an enemy close to you who can interfere (i.e. can see you and isn't incapacitated) gives you Disadvantage.
So what wouldbe the best way of making character that uses a net viable?
A level 7 Eldritch Knight can cast a cantrip (such as True Strike) than attack with a net as a bonus action, they can also summon the net back to them as a bonus action, but it pretty much stops scaling after level 7.
Myother thought was Paladin, be a healer in addition to a being a tank and support, your abilities scale much better than Fighter, but you do lose out on some ASIs which can be used to get feats like Crossbow Expert, or Sharpshooter.
The way True Strike is worded, the attack that gets advantage must be on the casters next turn, so even EK’s can’t cast it and get advantage on the same turn. But I’m sure there are some DM’s who house rule that they can.
So what wouldbe the best way of making character that uses a net viable?
A level 7 Eldritch Knight can cast a cantrip (such as True Strike) than attack with a net as a bonus action, they can also summon the net back to them as a bonus action, but it pretty much stops scaling after level 7.
Myother thought was Paladin, be a healer in addition to a being a tank and support, your abilities scale much better than Fighter, but you do lose out on some ASIs which can be used to get feats like Crossbow Expert, or Sharpshooter.
There are several options, besides eating the Disadvantage, that I can think of. Pick the Crossbow Expert Feat to eliminate Disadvantage when fighting at melee (5') range. Pick Sharpshooter to eliminate Disadvantage when fighting at 10-15' range. Use Shove to make opponent prone before attacking with the net at 5' range. Use Greater Invisibility, Darkness + Devil's Sight as a Warlock, attack from hiding, or otherwise prevent the opponent from seeing you while attacking at 5' range. Use the Lucky Feat to turn Disadvantage into super-Advantage (check with your DM, though... while this is RAW and apparently RAI, some DMs prefer not to handle it this way). Basically, any mechanic that normally offers Advantage can be used to nullify the Disadvantage, although it is arguable that this isn't "efficient", since you're losing out on what otherwise would be Advantage.
You can also have something help you with the attack. With Find Familiar, you can even do this by yourself, ordering the familiar to help you. An owl is very useful for this, as it can fly in, help, and fly away without provoking an attack of opportunity.
Well that just because of the name of the feat. You could simply rename the feat to ranged quickshoot feat. After all the removal of close ranged disadvantage work on all ranged weapon not only crossbows
We need a "Gladiator" feat that gives special use to nets, and maybe a few other perks. That would be awesome. Yes, the crossbow thing sounds as ridiculous as the various crossbow expert builds I've seen, lol!
The power to restrain your target for at least his next round by tossing your net (and you can do this as a bonus action with your offhand at no penalty), is almost OP. The disadvantage rule helps keep the item reasonable, or everyone would carry a net.
The power to restrain your target for at least his next round by tossing your net (and you can do this as a bonus action with your offhand at no penalty), is almost OP. The disadvantage rule helps keep the item reasonable, or everyone would carry a net.
It's generally impossible to throw a net as a bonus action.
The power to restrain your target for at least his next round by tossing your net (and you can do this as a bonus action with your offhand at no penalty), is almost OP. The disadvantage rule helps keep the item reasonable, or everyone would carry a net.
It's generally impossible to throw a net as a bonus action.
This is false. As has been said in this very thread:
The power to restrain your target for at least his next round by tossing your net (and you can do this as a bonus action with your offhand at no penalty), is almost OP. The disadvantage rule helps keep the item reasonable, or everyone would carry a net.
It's generally impossible to throw a net as a bonus action.
This is false. As has been said in this very thread:
A level 7 Eldritch Knight can cast a cantrip (such as True Strike) than attack with a net as a bonus action,
And I would add that the CR Bloodhunter subclass Order of the Profane Soul has the same ability, under the name of Mystic Frenzy.
Something 2 specific subclasses (I'm taking you at your word about the Profane Soul Bloodhunter, as I am not versed in homebrew classes or their subclasses) can do that almost no-one else can is essentially the definition of "generally impossible" (emphasis added).
In fact, the subclass that's best with a net is probably Beast Master Ranger (who doesn't throw it as a bonus action).
I was trying to figure out if the net used Dex or Strength for the attack roll, originally I just assumed it would be Strength cause it just made sense to me, but it's in the ranged weapon section and ranged weapons use Dex. Another thing that occurred to me is that since it's a ranged weapon it has disadvantage m targets within 5ft, but it's normal range is 5ft so you'll always have disadvantage attacking unless you have the Crossbow Expert feat or Sharpshooter feat.
I'm also wondering if you can use the Sharpshooter bonus damage with the net, it doesn't specially say the attack has to do damage it just says it has to hit, although it doesn't have a damage type so it would be hard to argue. But since Hex also just says when an attack hits and doesn't specifically says deals damage, and Hex deals a specific damage type, so RAW it should technically be an option, although most DMs would be against it.
I'm also still somewhat confused as to the attack limit on the net, but that's another matter. Anyway, what how do you guys think the net is supposed to work RAI?
nets are thrown and don't have finesse, and so use strength. you do not use dex.
sharpshooter's bonus dmg is added to the attack's dmg. nets don't have damage because of their special rules, so I'd argue you don't get free damage.
I'll leave it to others who may have used nets often to comment on the RAI.
If thrown, you always use dexterity. Ranged attacks always use the dexterity modifier. If you are using it as if you are in close combat and aren’t throwing it, you use strength.
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Thrown weapons use their regular modifiers, a thrown handaxe use strength, and since a dagger has the finesse property a thrown dagger uses strength or Dex. Although since a net is a ranged weapon, it's regular modifier would presumably be Dex.
That’s .correct. I forgot it was a ranged weapon. But, one second.
just checke, that’s correct! Hm. I didn’t know that.
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Let's run through all of the relevant properties:
1. The net is a Martial Ranged Weapon.
2. It has the Thrown property.
The rules for Making an Attack state:
Bringing that together - as the net is a Range weapon, the default ability used to attack with it is Dexterity. Checking the text for the Thrown property, the majority of the rule is prefaced with, "If the weapon is a melee weapon..." which it isn't so those rules are disregarded. The net also doesn't have the Finesse property, so there is no rule that would allow the strength ability score to be substituted in.
Conclusion: attacks are made using the dexterity ability bonus.
As noted, ranged attacks at a range of 5' are at disadvantage and also range attacks made at over normal range (in this case over 5' for the net) are also at disadvantage. I am guessing this is because being hit by a net can pretty much disable a combatant, with it being restrained.
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While this is usually how it plays out, that's not strictly correct. Ranged attacks made while a hostile creature who can see you and isn't incapacitated is within 5' of you have Disadvantage.
So you can attack at 5' without Disadvantage in several situations:
On the other hand, attacking at range over 5' (even with a weapon with a longer reach, like, say, a longbow) can have Disadvantage if there's a hostile creature who can see you and isn't incapacitated within 5' of you, even if that creature is not your target.
TL;DR: it's not that attacking point blank gives you Disadvantage, it's that attacking with an enemy close to you who can interfere (i.e. can see you and isn't incapacitated) gives you Disadvantage.
True and thank you for the lengthy explanation. :)
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So what wouldbe the best way of making character that uses a net viable?
A level 7 Eldritch Knight can cast a cantrip (such as True Strike) than attack with a net as a bonus action, they can also summon the net back to them as a bonus action, but it pretty much stops scaling after level 7.
Myother thought was Paladin, be a healer in addition to a being a tank and support, your abilities scale much better than Fighter, but you do lose out on some ASIs which can be used to get feats like Crossbow Expert, or Sharpshooter.
The way True Strike is worded, the attack that gets advantage must be on the casters next turn, so even EK’s can’t cast it and get advantage on the same turn. But I’m sure there are some DM’s who house rule that they can.
There are several options, besides eating the Disadvantage, that I can think of. Pick the Crossbow Expert Feat to eliminate Disadvantage when fighting at melee (5') range. Pick Sharpshooter to eliminate Disadvantage when fighting at 10-15' range. Use Shove to make opponent prone before attacking with the net at 5' range. Use Greater Invisibility, Darkness + Devil's Sight as a Warlock, attack from hiding, or otherwise prevent the opponent from seeing you while attacking at 5' range. Use the Lucky Feat to turn Disadvantage into super-Advantage (check with your DM, though... while this is RAW and apparently RAI, some DMs prefer not to handle it this way). Basically, any mechanic that normally offers Advantage can be used to nullify the Disadvantage, although it is arguable that this isn't "efficient", since you're losing out on what otherwise would be Advantage.
You can also have something help you with the attack. With Find Familiar, you can even do this by yourself, ordering the familiar to help you. An owl is very useful for this, as it can fly in, help, and fly away without provoking an attack of opportunity.
I totally understand that that is RAW, but it sure does sound silly when applying it to throwing a net.
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Well that just because of the name of the feat. You could simply rename the feat to ranged quickshoot feat. After all the removal of close ranged disadvantage work on all ranged weapon not only crossbows
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We need a "Gladiator" feat that gives special use to nets, and maybe a few other perks. That would be awesome. Yes, the crossbow thing sounds as ridiculous as the various crossbow expert builds I've seen, lol!
The power to restrain your target for at least his next round by tossing your net (and you can do this as a bonus action with your offhand at no penalty), is almost OP. The disadvantage rule helps keep the item reasonable, or everyone would carry a net.
It's generally impossible to throw a net as a bonus action.
This is false. As has been said in this very thread:
And I would add that the CR Bloodhunter subclass Order of the Profane Soul has the same ability, under the name of Mystic Frenzy.
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Something 2 specific subclasses (I'm taking you at your word about the Profane Soul Bloodhunter, as I am not versed in homebrew classes or their subclasses) can do that almost no-one else can is essentially the definition of "generally impossible" (emphasis added).
In fact, the subclass that's best with a net is probably Beast Master Ranger (who doesn't throw it as a bonus action).