One of my players had a necklace of fireballs and threw one of the beads, wanting to deal non-lethal damage to an npc they wanted to keep alive, who they knew had really low health. I didn't know exactly how this would (could?) work, so we said with the aim of the bead, she was to the far end of the spectrum and was pushed from the blast, knocking her into a wall, rendering her unconscious.
I'm not sure if this is something that is doable, or if I ran this right. Any thoughts on a better way to have handled this or if I handled it the wrong way?
You went with rule of cool, which is perfectly acceptable.
Now the rule of lawyering says that the fireball would do damage to anything in a square that the AoE touches and no damage outside of that range. There is no way to do non-lethal damage with a spell like Fireball.
I'm also no firefighter, pyrotechnician, or engineer, but I have been dumb enough to set many things on fire and create explosions. The idea that the force from the fireball explosion could push a person isn't far fetched. However, being outside the range of the spell would mean they're getting struck by the least amount of energy, so I would say they wouldn't get pushed by more than a few feet, and potentially get a dex save.
You went with rule of cool, which is perfectly acceptable.
Now the rule of lawyering says that the fireball would do damage to anything in a square that the AoE touches and no damage outside of that range. There is no way to do non-lethal damage with a spell like Fireball.
Gotcha. That's what I thought, it didn't really make sense for a non-lethal fireball, but in the situation it seemed like the best thing to do for the story so I went with it. I just wanted to know how it held up to the rules. I appreciate it!
I'm also no firefighter, pyrotechnician, or engineer, but I have been dumb enough to set many things on fire and create explosions. The idea that the force from the fireball explosion could push a person isn't far fetched. However, being outside the range of the spell would mean they're getting struck by the least amount of energy, so I would say they wouldn't get pushed by more than a few feet, and potentially get a dex save.
Even though the Fireballexplodes, there is no mention of it exploding with any force at all. Objects are ignited, but nothing is pushed around. If you want to think about it in real-life physics, it's like a cloud of flammable gas suddenly igniting in the air (as opposed to in a sealed container): a big ball of fire, but no pushing force.
Also, like you mentioned, there is no "rules-legal" way to cause non-lethal damage with a Fireball. (In fact, in 5e there is no "non-lethal damage". There is an option to knock a creature out, instead of killing it, when dropping it to 0 hps with a melee attack. At the moment you do, you can opt to knock it out (rendering it unconscious but stable) instead of killing it. Note that this means that you can do it with Shocking Grasp, Vampiric Touch, etc., since those are all melee attacks.) But, again, like you mentioned, rule-of-cool always works. =)
I'd suggest teaming up with another caster in a situation like that one. Dump a bunch of water on the NPC who you want to protect and then hit them with the fireball and rule that they have resistance to the fire damage because they're underwater at the time it hit them. Also, NPC's can make death saving throws just like PC's do so you can knock an NPC unconscious and then heal them to keep them alive.
I'd suggest teaming up with another caster in a situation like that one. Dump a bunch of water on the NPC who you want to protect and then hit them with the fireball and rule that they have resistance to the fire damage because they're underwater at the time it hit them. Also, NPC's can make death saving throws just like PC's do so you can knock an NPC unconscious and then heal them to keep them alive.
Oh, that's maybe what I could have done. In a "I do non-lethal damage" in a situation where you can't ordinarily, I can make it to where the PCs can grant death saving throws. That seems like a fair trade. I appreciate the idea!
I'm also no firefighter, pyrotechnician, or engineer, but I have been dumb enough to set many things on fire and create explosions. The idea that the force from the fireball explosion could push a person isn't far fetched. However, being outside the range of the spell would mean they're getting struck by the least amount of energy, so I would say they wouldn't get pushed by more than a few feet, and potentially get a dex save.
Even though the Fireballexplodes, there is no mention of it exploding with any force at all. Objects are ignited, but nothing is pushed around. If you want to think about it in real-life physics, it's like a cloud of flammable gas suddenly igniting in the air (as opposed to in a sealed container): a big ball of fire, but no pushing force.
The way I like to think about it is you are throwing a match on an open area covered in gasoline. If you have any experience with this, you know there really isn't a "force"... Everything just turns into flames instantly. Also, I think a lot of people have in their mind that it is a fireball coming from the sky (As I did for a long time), but it is a "bright streak...from your pointing finger", so there isn't any "bludgeoning" damage as there is with Meteor Swarm.
I think it makes sense. There's a point where the blow would kill him, there's a point where the blow would not affect him, so there should be a point in-between. I would maybe have made my player roll an intelligence check, or a spellcasting check or something.
You were right in your call anyway, as a player i think there's nothing more frustrating than wanting to engage with the game in a "real world" kind of way only to have the rules quoted back at us. It breaks the immersion, it's frustrating, and the opposite of fun.
I mean, "officially" the rules say "When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out."
So, strictly RAW, you can't do non-lethal damage with a ranged attack. But if the player pretty clearly telegraphed that's what they wanted to do in advance I don't see a problem allowing it.
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One of my players had a necklace of fireballs and threw one of the beads, wanting to deal non-lethal damage to an npc they wanted to keep alive, who they knew had really low health. I didn't know exactly how this would (could?) work, so we said with the aim of the bead, she was to the far end of the spectrum and was pushed from the blast, knocking her into a wall, rendering her unconscious.
I'm not sure if this is something that is doable, or if I ran this right. Any thoughts on a better way to have handled this or if I handled it the wrong way?
Published Subclasses
You went with rule of cool, which is perfectly acceptable.
Now the rule of lawyering says that the fireball would do damage to anything in a square that the AoE touches and no damage outside of that range. There is no way to do non-lethal damage with a spell like Fireball.
I'm also no firefighter, pyrotechnician, or engineer, but I have been dumb enough to set many things on fire and create explosions. The idea that the force from the fireball explosion could push a person isn't far fetched. However, being outside the range of the spell would mean they're getting struck by the least amount of energy, so I would say they wouldn't get pushed by more than a few feet, and potentially get a dex save.
Gotcha. That's what I thought, it didn't really make sense for a non-lethal fireball, but in the situation it seemed like the best thing to do for the story so I went with it. I just wanted to know how it held up to the rules. I appreciate it!
Published Subclasses
Even though the Fireball explodes, there is no mention of it exploding with any force at all. Objects are ignited, but nothing is pushed around. If you want to think about it in real-life physics, it's like a cloud of flammable gas suddenly igniting in the air (as opposed to in a sealed container): a big ball of fire, but no pushing force.
Also, like you mentioned, there is no "rules-legal" way to cause non-lethal damage with a Fireball. (In fact, in 5e there is no "non-lethal damage". There is an option to knock a creature out, instead of killing it, when dropping it to 0 hps with a melee attack. At the moment you do, you can opt to knock it out (rendering it unconscious but stable) instead of killing it. Note that this means that you can do it with Shocking Grasp, Vampiric Touch, etc., since those are all melee attacks.) But, again, like you mentioned, rule-of-cool always works. =)
I'd suggest teaming up with another caster in a situation like that one. Dump a bunch of water on the NPC who you want to protect and then hit them with the fireball and rule that they have resistance to the fire damage because they're underwater at the time it hit them. Also, NPC's can make death saving throws just like PC's do so you can knock an NPC unconscious and then heal them to keep them alive.
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Oh, that's maybe what I could have done. In a "I do non-lethal damage" in a situation where you can't ordinarily, I can make it to where the PCs can grant death saving throws. That seems like a fair trade. I appreciate the idea!
Published Subclasses
The way I like to think about it is you are throwing a match on an open area covered in gasoline. If you have any experience with this, you know there really isn't a "force"... Everything just turns into flames instantly. Also, I think a lot of people have in their mind that it is a fireball coming from the sky (As I did for a long time), but it is a "bright streak...from your pointing finger", so there isn't any "bludgeoning" damage as there is with Meteor Swarm.
I think it makes sense. There's a point where the blow would kill him, there's a point where the blow would not affect him, so there should be a point in-between. I would maybe have made my player roll an intelligence check, or a spellcasting check or something.
You were right in your call anyway, as a player i think there's nothing more frustrating than wanting to engage with the game in a "real world" kind of way only to have the rules quoted back at us. It breaks the immersion, it's frustrating, and the opposite of fun.
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I mean, "officially" the rules say "When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out."
So, strictly RAW, you can't do non-lethal damage with a ranged attack. But if the player pretty clearly telegraphed that's what they wanted to do in advance I don't see a problem allowing it.