Is the drow sensitivity from being in sunlight, or having the sunlight in their eyes? I.E. is it just a physiological thing--been underground, can't take this light! Or is it a magical thing--their bodies don't react well to sunlight?
The rules don't say whether it's a purely biological phenomenon or something extraordinary. It's certainly not magical for rules purposes. The actual rule is:
Sunlight Sensitivity
You have disadvantage on attack rolls and on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight when you, the target of your attack, or whatever you are trying to perceive is in direct sunlight.
So if your goal is to shoot someone that's in direct sunlight and you use Eyes of the Dark to see through your Darkness spell's effect and see them, you haven't helped your situation at all.
Devil's Sight can be interpreted as working since you "see normally". But that would only help if your target is inside the darkness.
Is the drow sensitivity from being in sunlight, or having the sunlight in their eyes? I.E. is it just a physiological thing--been underground, can't take this light! Or is it a magical thing--their bodies don't react well to sunlight?
The rules don't say whether it's a purely biological phenomenon or something extraordinary. It's certainly not magical for rules purposes. The actual rule is:
Sunlight Sensitivity
You have disadvantage on attack rolls and on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight when you, the target of your attack, or whatever you are trying to perceive is in direct sunlight.
So if your goal is to shoot someone that's in direct sunlight and you use Eyes of the Dark to see through your Darkness spell's effect and see them, you haven't helped your situation at all.
Devil's Sight can be interpreted as working since you "see normally". But that would only help if your target is inside the darkness.
Right, I forgot about the part where the target being in the sunlight gives the penalty too. That does seem to suggest a physiological approach. I still think I might be willing to houserule the use of Darkness/Devil's Sight into a kind of giant pair of sunglasses. Mostly because it's a cool but limited use idea :)
Unless...
the Darkness spell as a AoE spell will expand to its 15' radius in straight lines leading out from the target point unless it hit obstacles that provides total cover from the point of origin.
Total cover is defined as a target being 'completely concealed by an obstacle.
The Darkness spell specifies that you can cast it on an object, and that "Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a helm, blocks the darkness."
I would rule therefore that partially covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object would partially block the darkness--as per the AoE rules. Darkness cast on a rock and held in my hand could thereby be projected in a line if I mostly cover the rock but reveal part of it. Like uncovering part of a lantern. Except that the beam that would come out wouldn't be a light beam, but a darkness beam.
So, given that...if you cast the spell on a glass lens...and you set the lens in a pair of glasses that had opaque sides...like this:
You would effectively have glasses that projected a beam of darkness out the front. (Beam or Cone, depending on how far back into the goggles the spell was centered.)
If someone with Devil's Sight wore these goggles...they could see through the projected darkness beam.
If the DM allows a houserule of seeing through darkness working like sunglasses, then here's your sunglasses. :)
Even if not, I like the idea of a warlock walking around with goggles that shoot out darkness from the lenses. Nice way to use Darkness in melee with your party and not affect your allies.
Darkness cast on a rock and held in my hand could thereby be projected in a line if I mostly cover the rock but reveal part of it. Like uncovering part of a lantern. Except that the beam that would come out wouldn't be a light beam, but a darkness beam.
Darkness cast on a rock and held in my hand could thereby be projected in a line if I mostly cover the rock but reveal part of it. Like uncovering part of a lantern. Except that the beam that would come out wouldn't be a light beam, but a darkness beam.
No; Darkness's effect spreads around corners.
Doh, forgot that one sentence. Bah, I'd still allow the goggles :) I don't see why Darkness goes around corners when Light doesn't.
Is the drow sensitivity from being in sunlight, or having the sunlight in their eyes? I.E. is it just a physiological thing--been underground, can't take this light! Or is it a magical thing--their bodies don't react well to sunlight?
The rules don't say whether it's a purely biological phenomenon or something extraordinary. It's certainly not magical for rules purposes.
Both. It's a biological phenomenon with an extraordinary origin, and it is magical (sunlight has magical properties in 5e; distinct from all other forms of light).
Here's an excerpt on exactly how Drow gained this trait:
The Descent of the Drow
Corellon interceded in the Crown Wars and cursed the dark elves so that they might never dwell comfortably under the sun. Now finding themselves pained by exposure to daylight, the drow — in a mere two months’ time — retreated from the sunlit lands of the World Above into the Underdark. They abandoned all loyalty to the elven gods who betrayed and banished them, turning instead to Lolth, the Demon Queen of Spiders, as their patron. Wars soon began between the drow and the underground cities of the dwarves.
The entire race was altered by magic. Like Duergar (whom were also cursed in a similar event), they didn't evolve the trait simply by living underground. Most other subterranean races (like Svirfneblin) don't have this trait. However, the Drow/Duergar trait Improved Darkvision is an evolved trait from the environment.
It's fine if your campaign setting(s) have different explanations & outcomes, but that is the Forgotten Realms canon.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
But you could put the darkness up against a cave entrance or the like for a blackout curtain effect and see through it.
If there's sunlight outside and you see through the darkness spell, you're still staring at sunlight.
Is the drow sensitivity from being in sunlight, or having the sunlight in their eyes?
It is the former.
Except that they get the penalty if their target is in sunlight too, right? That's what I get from Sunlight Sensitivity as InquisitiveCoder posted above. If the drow is in shadows/darkness/whatever, and the target is in sunlight, it's a penalty.
That's not to say anything else you said isn't right and/or the best way to go. It has always made more sense to me that it was a curse equivalent of some kind. That makes even more sense if only the target has to be in sunlight, in fact.
Is the drow sensitivity from being in sunlight, or having the sunlight in their eyes?
It is the former.
It's clearly not just the former since the penalty still applies if a drow is in the shade trying to attack something that's in direct sunlight.
It's a biological phenomenon with an extraordinary origin, and it is magical (sunlight has magical properties in 5e; distinct from all other forms of light).
"Magical" has a very specific meaning in D&D; magic can be detected with Detect Magic and turned off with an Antimagic Field. That's not the case here. Sunlight affects a drow or vampire in an antimagic field just as much as it does outside of it. Not every curse is magical, either; lycanthropy is a good example.
Supernatural or extraordinary is a better term for this.
For the most part, I think we're just splitting hairs on the semantics. I do agree supernatural would be a better term since the "magical" properties, in this specific instance, are the same as Blessings.
I was about to launch into an assault on the penalty applying to targets in sunlight because the entry on Drow/Duergar specifically states that the penalty only applies when the Drow/Duergar are in sunlight... except the PHB description is completely different! Cough... devs do some housekeeping... cough.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I was about to launch into an assault on the penalty applying to targets in sunlight because the entry on Drow/Duergar specifically states that the penalty only applies when the Drow/Duergar are in sunlight... except the PHB description is completely different! Cough... devs do some housekeeping... cough.
They need Crawford to rule two or three times in opposite directions on this one. :)
It’s not always bad having a weakness though. I’m playing a character right now who is a wizard who hates fire and won’t use fire spells because it can damage “his” books. She just might have a ton of fun with that weakness in sunlight as long as she understands it up front.
She ended up following this advice! We started our campaign today and she decided it would be fun to deal with a little challenge, and a little creative playing.
It’s not always bad having a weakness though. I’m playing a character right now who is a wizard who hates fire and won’t use fire spells because it can damage “his” books. She just might have a ton of fun with that weakness in sunlight as long as she understands it up front.
She ended up following this advice! We started our campaign today and she decided it would be fun to deal with a little challenge, and a little creative playing.
Good for her. She's taken her first step along the path of Light, and away from the Munchkin side. But beware, because that path to power is easy, and is always a temptation to the unwary.
Good for her. She's taken her first step along the path of Light, and away from the Munchkin side. But beware, because that path to power is easy, and is always a temptation to the unwary.
;)
While I agree with the sentiment, keep in mind that it's very much in character for a drow to try to find a way around their sunlight sensitivity.
Absolutely true - just as it's in character for me to try and find a Parka given that we just got hit with a blizzard :(
I don't think anyone expects her Character to not to try and find ways around it in the course of the game - but finding those ways as part of her adventure is part of the fun.
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It would be for the character, yes, but the original question was for the player to work around the rules. I think that is what Brotherbock was referring to.
Exactly. It'd probably be a bad idea for the character not to try to mitigate the penalty in game. That's just different from saying "I'd like a character with all the cool bits and no challenges." "I'd like a tiefling with none of the external signs of being a tiefling." :)
I like the example of the tiefling without the signs of a tiefling comparison. Because they get a +2 to Charisma, they are often chosen for classes that prefer charisma and thus are often very skilled at social skills. But because they have external signs of their heritage, there is evidence that is readily available for any NPC who would have problems with a tiefling to either force a higher DC or to have the skill check done at disadvantage. This doesn't mean that a tiefling can't be the face of the party, but that there will have to be concessions made for the moments when an NPC harbors this prejudice.
The same could be true about a drow, since the sunlight sensitivity could be a triggering factor for prejudice to rear its ugly head. In both instances, the character can either accept the prejudice and move on, or they can decide to work against the prejudice and change the perception that others have of their race in spite of that prejudice.
Of course, this requires a DM and player who are willing to explore this RP aspect and some of the uncomfortable aspects of life that it would shed light upon. But that's not much different than playing any other race that has a bad reputation or by playing a character in a way to deserve that reputation regardless of race.
It is part of a curse, and the living innocent dark elves got hit with it too, partly in my headcanon because some of the sun elves back during the crown wars were a-holes, and Correllon was probably subconsciously still a bit miffed at their actions in the primodial times.
Imagine having glass powder and sand being ground in all over your skin and in your eyes, now dial it back to a tenth of that, that's the sort of sensation a drow probably gets being in DIRECT sunlight, and/or staring at something that is in DIRECT sunlight. Possibly also makes using a Sunblade a bastich for them too.
Faerie Fire is your friend when dealing with a sunny day of combat, that and well having actual allies.
Although depending on the Drow's backstory they might have a bead on a possible solution, *cough Knave's Patch Cough* whether you try to get it of of Jarlaxle's cooling corpse, or just study it so you can make or have someone else make an item that while not necessarily having ALL the benefits of that roguish eyepatch, will cure the sensitivity.
That or have a patron that dampens it to a "if you keep your bloody hood up, then ya won't be seeing all blurry because of the sun, ya dingbat!" Straight up quote from my game.
Kinda old thread but goggles of night are such a common "ooh I don't wanna be the only non darkvision character in the party" and seem like such a freebie DM item given to humans that I dont think theres a need to penalize a drow over sunlight sensitivity
Give them sunglasses, have it remove sunlight sensitivity while they wear em and call it good.
I've had players in the past that want to play a drow without sunlight sensitivity. I allow players to do it with a few sacrifices, as you adjust to the sunlight you lose the innate magical abilities of the Underdark. These are:
Reduce Darkvision to 90 feet, You still see better in the dark than most races, just not twice as far, as your eyes adjust to the brightness of the world above.
You get a choice of Darkness or Faerie Fire once per long rest, not both. (you still have access to both at any time, but they share the same timer so to speak). This represents your lessening connection to the Faerzress.
WOTC should add a variant option to remove the sunlight sensitivity for races that have it, they gave variant tieflings wings so why not.
That sounds like a reasonable compromise, although if someone takes the optional Drow High Magic feat, I think that might indicate adapting to using the natural & not so natural abilities on the surface, and bump everything back up, maybe?
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The rules don't say whether it's a purely biological phenomenon or something extraordinary. It's certainly not magical for rules purposes. The actual rule is:
So if your goal is to shoot someone that's in direct sunlight and you use Eyes of the Dark to see through your Darkness spell's effect and see them, you haven't helped your situation at all.
Devil's Sight can be interpreted as working since you "see normally". But that would only help if your target is inside the darkness.
Right, I forgot about the part where the target being in the sunlight gives the penalty too. That does seem to suggest a physiological approach. I still think I might be willing to houserule the use of Darkness/Devil's Sight into a kind of giant pair of sunglasses. Mostly because it's a cool but limited use idea :)
Unless...
Even if not, I like the idea of a warlock walking around with goggles that shoot out darkness from the lenses. Nice way to use Darkness in melee with your party and not affect your allies.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
No; Darkness's effect spreads around corners.
Doh, forgot that one sentence. Bah, I'd still allow the goggles :) I don't see why Darkness goes around corners when Light doesn't.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
It is the former.
Both. It's a biological phenomenon with an extraordinary origin, and it is magical (sunlight has magical properties in 5e; distinct from all other forms of light).
Here's an excerpt on exactly how Drow gained this trait:
The entire race was altered by magic. Like Duergar (whom were also cursed in a similar event), they didn't evolve the trait simply by living underground. Most other subterranean races (like Svirfneblin) don't have this trait. However, the Drow/Duergar trait Improved Darkvision is an evolved trait from the environment.
It's fine if your campaign setting(s) have different explanations & outcomes, but that is the Forgotten Realms canon.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Except that they get the penalty if their target is in sunlight too, right? That's what I get from Sunlight Sensitivity as InquisitiveCoder posted above. If the drow is in shadows/darkness/whatever, and the target is in sunlight, it's a penalty.
That's not to say anything else you said isn't right and/or the best way to go. It has always made more sense to me that it was a curse equivalent of some kind. That makes even more sense if only the target has to be in sunlight, in fact.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
It's clearly not just the former since the penalty still applies if a drow is in the shade trying to attack something that's in direct sunlight.
"Magical" has a very specific meaning in D&D; magic can be detected with Detect Magic and turned off with an Antimagic Field. That's not the case here. Sunlight affects a drow or vampire in an antimagic field just as much as it does outside of it. Not every curse is magical, either; lycanthropy is a good example.
Supernatural or extraordinary is a better term for this.
For the most part, I think we're just splitting hairs on the semantics. I do agree supernatural would be a better term since the "magical" properties, in this specific instance, are the same as Blessings.
I was about to launch into an assault on the penalty applying to targets in sunlight because the entry on Drow/Duergar specifically states that the penalty only applies when the Drow/Duergar are in sunlight... except the PHB description is completely different! Cough... devs do some housekeeping... cough.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
They need Crawford to rule two or three times in opposite directions on this one. :)
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
She ended up following this advice! We started our campaign today and she decided it would be fun to deal with a little challenge, and a little creative playing.
Good for her. She's taken her first step along the path of Light, and away from the Munchkin side. But beware, because that path to power is easy, and is always a temptation to the unwary.
;)
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
While I agree with the sentiment, keep in mind that it's very much in character for a drow to try to find a way around their sunlight sensitivity.
Absolutely true - just as it's in character for me to try and find a Parka given that we just got hit with a blizzard :(
I don't think anyone expects her Character to not to try and find ways around it in the course of the game - but finding those ways as part of her adventure is part of the fun.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
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It would be for the character, yes, but the original question was for the player to work around the rules. I think that is what Brotherbock was referring to.
Exactly. It'd probably be a bad idea for the character not to try to mitigate the penalty in game. That's just different from saying "I'd like a character with all the cool bits and no challenges." "I'd like a tiefling with none of the external signs of being a tiefling." :)
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
I like the example of the tiefling without the signs of a tiefling comparison. Because they get a +2 to Charisma, they are often chosen for classes that prefer charisma and thus are often very skilled at social skills. But because they have external signs of their heritage, there is evidence that is readily available for any NPC who would have problems with a tiefling to either force a higher DC or to have the skill check done at disadvantage. This doesn't mean that a tiefling can't be the face of the party, but that there will have to be concessions made for the moments when an NPC harbors this prejudice.
The same could be true about a drow, since the sunlight sensitivity could be a triggering factor for prejudice to rear its ugly head. In both instances, the character can either accept the prejudice and move on, or they can decide to work against the prejudice and change the perception that others have of their race in spite of that prejudice.
Of course, this requires a DM and player who are willing to explore this RP aspect and some of the uncomfortable aspects of life that it would shed light upon. But that's not much different than playing any other race that has a bad reputation or by playing a character in a way to deserve that reputation regardless of race.
It is part of a curse, and the living innocent dark elves got hit with it too, partly in my headcanon because some of the sun elves back during the crown wars were a-holes, and Correllon was probably subconsciously still a bit miffed at their actions in the primodial times.
Imagine having glass powder and sand being ground in all over your skin and in your eyes, now dial it back to a tenth of that, that's the sort of sensation a drow probably gets being in DIRECT sunlight, and/or staring at something that is in DIRECT sunlight. Possibly also makes using a Sunblade a bastich for them too.
Faerie Fire is your friend when dealing with a sunny day of combat, that and well having actual allies.
Although depending on the Drow's backstory they might have a bead on a possible solution, *cough Knave's Patch Cough* whether you try to get it of of Jarlaxle's cooling corpse, or just study it so you can make or have someone else make an item that while not necessarily having ALL the benefits of that roguish eyepatch, will cure the sensitivity.
That or have a patron that dampens it to a "if you keep your bloody hood up, then ya won't be seeing all blurry because of the sun, ya dingbat!" Straight up quote from my game.
Kinda old thread but goggles of night are such a common "ooh I don't wanna be the only non darkvision character in the party" and seem like such a freebie DM item given to humans that I dont think theres a need to penalize a drow over sunlight sensitivity
Give them sunglasses, have it remove sunlight sensitivity while they wear em and call it good.
I've had players in the past that want to play a drow without sunlight sensitivity. I allow players to do it with a few sacrifices, as you adjust to the sunlight you lose the innate magical abilities of the Underdark. These are:
WOTC should add a variant option to remove the sunlight sensitivity for races that have it, they gave variant tieflings wings so why not.
That sounds like a reasonable compromise, although if someone takes the optional Drow High Magic feat, I think that might indicate adapting to using the natural & not so natural abilities on the surface, and bump everything back up, maybe?