Another thread I was in got nearly derailed by a discussion about Magic Missile, and I've got a few questions about the spell and how it works, or at least, how you all choose to play, since I kind of feel like it's mostly a personal decision, since the difference between the options doesn't have a major impact on gameplay.
As the poll posits, do you roll once and apply that same damage to each dart of magic missile, or do you roll separately for the damage of each dart? In my own games we always rolled for each different dart... it wasn't really a conscious decision,that was just how my friends and I thought the spell was supposed to work. It wasn't until I got into Adventurer's League that I realized there was any debate on the subject.
Also, as a bit of a side... how do you treat magic missile in regards to spells and abilities that deals extra damage or tacks on other effects to the spell? I can see some people trying to use Hex with Magic Missile, although Hex specifically ties to an attack roll, and there's no attack involved with Magic Missile. But something like a goblin's Fury of the Small can be tied to either an Attack, or just any "damage" from a "spell". There's probably more things that could be potentially attached to Magic Missile, but I'm not familiar with more off the top of my head.
Magic Missile is a really unique spell, since it's one of an extremely small number of spells that has no saving throw or attack roll tied to it. I'd be curious to see if anyone has any interesting RAW tactics that would apply to the spell.
Normally we roll separately for each dart just because it's more fun that way, but the rules on it are roll once and if someone played an evoker they'd certainly get the extra damage on each dart, though we might still roll separately.
As for effects that add damage, hex doesn't apply to magic missile any more than it applies to any other spells that don't have attack rolls. For other effects, if it increases one damage roll it applies to every dart, if it increases the damage of the spell against one target, the increase only applies once.
We treat it the same way we do Fireball, Lightning Bolt and other spells that deal multiple dice of damage, so multiple d4s. It is fairly rare in our games to divide the missiles between multiple targets as 1d4+1 is not very much damage.
For a fireball, you roll 8d6 and apply the total to everyone. For magic missile, you do not roll 3d4+3 and apply the total to everyone. The Magic Missile is not treated as one boom but as actual separate missiles that you can divide up as you see fit.
True, but they all strike their targets simultaneously. You roll 1d4+1 and apply the total to a number of targets = darts in a sphere with a 120-foot radius. The targets must be visible to the caster, and multiple darts can target the same creature. But the darts hit simultaneously, so the roll is what is listed, 1d4+1.
I think it is more fun to roll more dice. That is a strictly RAF idea.
A related question? Do you treat magic missile and higher character level eldritch blast the same? Both just direct multiples of the individual effects at a target. I assume the ruling is based on the fact that it is 3 individual 1d4+1 darts. Well, at 11th level, eldritch blast is 3 individual 1d10 beams. If you treat them differently, why?
I think it is more fun to role more dice. That is a strictly RAF idea.
A related question? Do you treat magic missile and higher character level eldritch blast the same? Both just direct multiples of the individual effects at a target. I assume the ruling is based on the fact that it is 3 individual 1d4+1 darts. Well, at 11th level, eldritch blast is 3 individual 1d10 beams. If you treat them differently, why?
True. I guess you could say that you get to re-roll damage for each attack roll. Is that formalized in the rule?
I guess I remember reading that you roll damage once each time the spell does damage. I don't remember where that was off the top of my head. But if there are 3 separate darts, that is still dealing damage 3 times, right?
What I'm really saying is that to me the separate attack rolls don't really separate the beams of EB any more than the separate darts of MM. The attack rolls, after all, are purely mechanical. It isn't as though they "take time" in game.
Eldritch blast acts like extra attack. You definitely roll multiple times for multiple attacks. Those are definitely discrete events. I just don't know how you know that the darts aren't.
I think I've worked what Lunali alluded to for myself. Eldritch blast are separate attacks because they are separate attack rolls. Magic missiles are not attacks at all, so (even though they are separate darts) they're one spell effect - similar to an area effect spell. Each person simultaneously affected by area spells take the same damage.
I think I've worked what Lunali alluded to for myself. Eldritch blast are separate attacks because they are separate attack rolls. Magic missiles are not attacks at all, so (even though they are separate darts) they're one spell effect - similar to an area effect spell. Each person simultaneously affected by area spells take the same damage.
Correct. I was about to say just this and sow you already hit the nail on the head.
Hrm. Just reviewed hex . I've been allowing it to combine w MM, my bad. Hex damage is triggered with an attack, which MM is not.
It is effected by assassinate though (RAW). All that requires is "score a hit," which MM does automatically. This allows a sorcerer assassin to pepper a target subtly with double damage MMs without breaking stealth.
You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the spell creates one more dart for each slot level above 1st.
For a fireball, you roll 8d6 and apply the total to everyone. For magic missile, you do not roll 3d4+3 and apply the total to everyone. The Magic Missile is not treated as one boom but as actual separate missiles that you can divide up as you see fit.
Your right they are separate missiles. So you roll 1d4+1 for each individual missile.
For a fireball, you roll 8d6 and apply the total to everyone. For magic missile, you do not roll 3d4+3 and apply the total to everyone. The Magic Missile is not treated as one boom but as actual separate missiles that you can divide up as you see fit.
Your right they are separate missiles. So you roll 1d4+1 for each individual missile.
Technically no, because they all hit “simultaneously.”
What does "Hit simultaneously" have to do with anything?
It technically makes it follow the rules for all spells that do multiple instances of damage simultaneously such as fireball and other AoEs.
For fireball you don’t roll 6d8 individually for each creature in the blast, you roll once and each instance of damage dealt by that spell does the same amount. Stops you from having to roll 6d8 individually for each goblin in the blast. Roll once, each instance of damage (every goblin hit) does the same amount of damage.
The only difference is that for Magic Missile, each instance of damage can hit the same or different creatures. But the rule is still the same.
Edit: I’m not saying you should play it that way, just that technically, that’s RAW. Feel free to ignore RAW whenever it suits you for your table as far as I’m concerned. I do when I DM.
Another thread I was in got nearly derailed by a discussion about Magic Missile, and I've got a few questions about the spell and how it works, or at least, how you all choose to play, since I kind of feel like it's mostly a personal decision, since the difference between the options doesn't have a major impact on gameplay.
As the poll posits, do you roll once and apply that same damage to each dart of magic missile, or do you roll separately for the damage of each dart? In my own games we always rolled for each different dart... it wasn't really a conscious decision,that was just how my friends and I thought the spell was supposed to work. It wasn't until I got into Adventurer's League that I realized there was any debate on the subject.
Also, as a bit of a side... how do you treat magic missile in regards to spells and abilities that deals extra damage or tacks on other effects to the spell? I can see some people trying to use Hex with Magic Missile, although Hex specifically ties to an attack roll, and there's no attack involved with Magic Missile. But something like a goblin's Fury of the Small can be tied to either an Attack, or just any "damage" from a "spell". There's probably more things that could be potentially attached to Magic Missile, but I'm not familiar with more off the top of my head.
Magic Missile is a really unique spell, since it's one of an extremely small number of spells that has no saving throw or attack roll tied to it. I'd be curious to see if anyone has any interesting RAW tactics that would apply to the spell.
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Normally we roll separately for each dart just because it's more fun that way, but the rules on it are roll once and if someone played an evoker they'd certainly get the extra damage on each dart, though we might still roll separately.
As for effects that add damage, hex doesn't apply to magic missile any more than it applies to any other spells that don't have attack rolls. For other effects, if it increases one damage roll it applies to every dart, if it increases the damage of the spell against one target, the increase only applies once.
Like lunali. As I understand RAW you’re supposed to roll once, but we roll for each. A fistful of dice is just more fun.
We treat it the same way we do Fireball, Lightning Bolt and other spells that deal multiple dice of damage, so multiple d4s. It is fairly rare in our games to divide the missiles between multiple targets as 1d4+1 is not very much damage.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
True, but they all strike their targets simultaneously. You roll 1d4+1 and apply the total to a number of targets = darts in a sphere with a 120-foot radius. The targets must be visible to the caster, and multiple darts can target the same creature. But the darts hit simultaneously, so the roll is what is listed, 1d4+1.
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I think it is more fun to roll more dice. That is a strictly RAF idea.
A related question? Do you treat magic missile and higher character level eldritch blast the same? Both just direct multiples of the individual effects at a target. I assume the ruling is based on the fact that it is 3 individual 1d4+1 darts. Well, at 11th level, eldritch blast is 3 individual 1d10 beams. If you treat them differently, why?
One requires an attack roll, one does not.
True. I guess you could say that you get to re-roll damage for each attack roll. Is that formalized in the rule?
I guess I remember reading that you roll damage once each time the spell does damage. I don't remember where that was off the top of my head. But if there are 3 separate darts, that is still dealing damage 3 times, right?
What I'm really saying is that to me the separate attack rolls don't really separate the beams of EB any more than the separate darts of MM. The attack rolls, after all, are purely mechanical. It isn't as though they "take time" in game.
Eldritch blast acts like extra attack. You definitely roll multiple times for multiple attacks. Those are definitely discrete events. I just don't know how you know that the darts aren't.
I think I've worked what Lunali alluded to for myself. Eldritch blast are separate attacks because they are separate attack rolls. Magic missiles are not attacks at all, so (even though they are separate darts) they're one spell effect - similar to an area effect spell. Each person simultaneously affected by area spells take the same damage.
Correct. I was about to say just this and sow you already hit the nail on the head.
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Another question. Does the spell need the word "simultaneously" to be interpreted this way?
I do believe that is the nexus of the issue, yes. But I might be wrong.
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Hrm. Just reviewed hex . I've been allowing it to combine w MM, my bad. Hex damage is triggered with an attack, which MM is not.
It is effected by assassinate though (RAW). All that requires is "score a hit," which MM does automatically. This allows a sorcerer assassin to pepper a target subtly with double damage MMs without breaking stealth.
I'm not sure on that. No attack roll = not possible to crit. I don't think being affected by a spell counts as a hit either.
Magic Missile
You create three glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4 + 1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the spell creates one more dart for each slot level above 1st.
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Your right they are separate missiles. So you roll 1d4+1 for each individual missile.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
RAW: 1 die
RAF: Roll as many dice as possible
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Technically no, because they all hit “simultaneously.”
I will never insist on RAW over RAF.
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What does "Hit simultaneously" have to do with anything?
The basic casting create 3 separate missiles. Why would the timing of their impact make a difference?
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
It technically makes it follow the rules for all spells that do multiple instances of damage simultaneously such as fireball and other AoEs.
For fireball you don’t roll 6d8 individually for each creature in the blast, you roll once and each instance of damage dealt by that spell does the same amount. Stops you from having to roll 6d8 individually for each goblin in the blast. Roll once, each instance of damage (every goblin hit) does the same amount of damage.
The only difference is that for Magic Missile, each instance of damage can hit the same or different creatures. But the rule is still the same.
Edit: I’m not saying you should play it that way, just that technically, that’s RAW. Feel free to ignore RAW whenever it suits you for your table as far as I’m concerned. I do when I DM.
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