I'm having a bit of a minor but significant argument with my DM. He feels that Alter Self can change you to any height or weight you wish, I pointed out the phrase
"You also can't appear as a creature of a different size than you, and your basic shape stays the same; if you're bipedal, you can't use this spell to become quadrupedal, for instance."
He points out it says "You transform your appearance. You decide what you look like, including your height, weight, facial features, sound of your voice, hair length, coloration, and distinguishing characteristics, if any. You can make yourself appear as a member of another race, though none of your statistics change." and that means if you want to alter self to be a storm giant you can.
I need some official input on this if you can. I assume size as used here means Small, Medium, Large etc. Am I wrong cause if I am, that makes Alter Self one of the most powerful 2nd level spells available to any class.
You can't change your size with Alter Self, a Medium creature is only going to be able to transform into another Medium creature. The spell also says none of your statistics change, which 1) would make it pointless (from a combat perspective) to try to transform into a more powerful creature and 2) reinforces the fact that you can't change size, because your size is part of your statistics.
Agreed with above. If you are a Medium size character you can alter yourself to something between a 4-foot Dwarf and an 8-foot Goliath, or any vaguely humanoid shape you can imagine within that range. If you are a small character then you can become a 2-foot Kobold or a 4-foot Gnome or similar. But above all this is a change in appearance with absolutely no change in physical function; even if you look like a (medium) Bugbear you do not gain their Long-Limbed racial trait.
Drawing from the points made above, I suppose technically speaking one could cast alter self and take on the appearance of a storm giant, but the size of the caster would remain the same.
Drawing from the points made above, I suppose technically speaking one could cast alter self and take on the appearance of a storm giant, but the size of the caster would remain the same.
So you would be a storm giant child or a storm giant with dwarfism. If you are a storm giant that is the wrong height you are going to need an explanation as to why.
Sorry for necroing just had to make it clear. With "statistics" it means written on your official character sheet by default in the form of values, speed, ability scores, modifiers and saving throws derived from them etc, though this does not mean your size can change while we use the term medium it consists of certain values(size is usually not mentioned in official 5e character sheets, though if you fill it properly, your racial traits, thus your size should be written down) spell specifically says you can not change size anyway, as size modifies your carry weight which is modified by your statistics and which is also expressed numerically thus statistics,. Speed is also a statistics btw(which is kinda important to mention, so an Aarkorca or Averiel elf turning into another race won't have 30 land movement speed assuming that your DM allows such alterations). And it is not just a spell about only appearances/disguise it is also able to make functional changes, like functional gills and talons which are considered magical weapons and has +1 to damage and hit, effectively impacting combat in certain situations. So not all practical changes on your body are considered forbidden, it just has to make sense.
For example i would allow a player to grow wings, or turn into an Aarkorca if he casts the spell using a thrid level spell slot, but i would limit his/her movement speed to his own movement speed, as movement speed is a "statistic". Some DMs might not some even let it at the original level, as Aarkorca and Averiel elves are bipedal medium creatures, you might be thinking being able to fly at level 3 is op but many DM allow these races anyway. And to be honest a proper gamer does not care about balance but cares about verisimilitude, allowing a player to be an aasimar divine soul is much more unbalanced if balance is an issue. It would take just a small amount of time to religious fanatics to flock around such a character in many parts of realms. This is a roleplaying game not hack and slash, if your flying pc thinks he/she can abuse the ability, then he/she is dimwitted, strong attracts stronger. Why do you think both of those races have lesser number when compared to other races? Just like in real world, people tend to get threatened by the knowledge of guns in their neighbourhood, wings on elf, as if normal elves were not enough trouble? It is similar to putting nuclear capable weapons near the US border, what would US do?
I'm having a bit of a minor but significant argument with my DM. He feels that Alter Self can change you to any height or weight you wish, I pointed out the phrase
"You also can't appear as a creature of a different size than you, and your basic shape stays the same; if you're bipedal, you can't use this spell to become quadrupedal, for instance."
He points out it says "You transform your appearance. You decide what you look like, including your height, weight, facial features, sound of your voice, hair length, coloration, and distinguishing characteristics, if any. You can make yourself appear as a member of another race, though none of your statistics change." and that means if you want to alter self to be a storm giant you can.
I need some official input on this if you can. I assume size as used here means Small, Medium, Large etc. Am I wrong cause if I am, that makes Alter Self one of the most powerful 2nd level spells available to any class.
You can't change your size with Alter Self, a Medium creature is only going to be able to transform into another Medium creature. The spell also says none of your statistics change, which 1) would make it pointless (from a combat perspective) to try to transform into a more powerful creature and 2) reinforces the fact that you can't change size, because your size is part of your statistics.
But, there’s a lot of leeway in the weight of medium creatures. So you can alter your size somewhat, just not completely.
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I agree, thanks guys I'll make sure he sees this and we talk about it more
Agreed with above. If you are a Medium size character you can alter yourself to something between a 4-foot Dwarf and an 8-foot Goliath, or any vaguely humanoid shape you can imagine within that range. If you are a small character then you can become a 2-foot Kobold or a 4-foot Gnome or similar. But above all this is a change in appearance with absolutely no change in physical function; even if you look like a (medium) Bugbear you do not gain their Long-Limbed racial trait.
Drawing from the points made above, I suppose technically speaking one could cast alter self and take on the appearance of a storm giant, but the size of the caster would remain the same.
So you would be a storm giant child or a storm giant with dwarfism. If you are a storm giant that is the wrong height you are going to need an explanation as to why.
Most definitely! Could be hilarious depending how well they roll deception or performance when folk start asking questions.
Sorry for necroing just had to make it clear. With "statistics" it means written on your official character sheet by default in the form of values, speed, ability scores, modifiers and saving throws derived from them etc, though this does not mean your size can change while we use the term medium it consists of certain values(size is usually not mentioned in official 5e character sheets, though if you fill it properly, your racial traits, thus your size should be written down) spell specifically says you can not change size anyway, as size modifies your carry weight which is modified by your statistics and which is also expressed numerically thus statistics,. Speed is also a statistics btw(which is kinda important to mention, so an Aarkorca or Averiel elf turning into another race won't have 30 land movement speed assuming that your DM allows such alterations). And it is not just a spell about only appearances/disguise it is also able to make functional changes, like functional gills and talons which are considered magical weapons and has +1 to damage and hit, effectively impacting combat in certain situations. So not all practical changes on your body are considered forbidden, it just has to make sense.
For example i would allow a player to grow wings, or turn into an Aarkorca if he casts the spell using a thrid level spell slot, but i would limit his/her movement speed to his own movement speed, as movement speed is a "statistic". Some DMs might not some even let it at the original level, as Aarkorca and Averiel elves are bipedal medium creatures, you might be thinking being able to fly at level 3 is op but many DM allow these races anyway. And to be honest a proper gamer does not care about balance but cares about verisimilitude, allowing a player to be an aasimar divine soul is much more unbalanced if balance is an issue. It would take just a small amount of time to religious fanatics to flock around such a character in many parts of realms. This is a roleplaying game not hack and slash, if your flying pc thinks he/she can abuse the ability, then he/she is dimwitted, strong attracts stronger. Why do you think both of those races have lesser number when compared to other races? Just like in real world, people tend to get threatened by the knowledge of guns in their neighbourhood, wings on elf, as if normal elves were not enough trouble? It is similar to putting nuclear capable weapons near the US border, what would US do?
Elves, Dwarves, humans, and Goliaths are both Medium creatures. You can look like any of them convincingy.
You cannot be a halfling, gnome, centaur or Ogre, let alone a giant