So, I feel like I read somewhere (in official RAW content) that spells such as revivify and the like cannot return an unwilling soul to its body. So say a PC dies and the cleric is on it like ASAP meeting all material and time restrictions. The DM would still have to consult the PC out of character to see if the soul should returns to the body or move on. If anyone can pull some info on this or give me a pg number, I am struggling to find where I saw this.
I cannot recall if the DMG has anything specific about death and resurrection in it and do not have access right now. If it does not then there is no set rule and it depends entirely on the specific method of revival.
Revivify does not need the soul to be willing: you can bring them back, even if they don't want to.
Wish can bring somebody back in two ways: by replicating Revivify or Resurrection as needed. So if the target died within the last minute you can count it as Revivify and the character is returned to life, willing or not, but if it has been over that time it would be as a Resurrection (the highest spell of this nature Wish can replicate) which requires the soul to be willing. These count as "basic use" of Wish and have no negative consequences: they just work. However, you have the option of using Wish in the "non-basic" way, so you can bring back anyone who has ever died, no matter the length of time, be they willing or not, be the soul free or not. However this non-basic use carries 1-in-3 chance of rendering the caster unable to ever cast Wish again by any means and has negative stat consequences for multiple days. Also the result can be twisted or different than expected, as these non-basic uses are at DM's discretion.
The text you're thinking of is from DMG chapter 1:
When a creature dies, its soul departs its body, leaves the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, and goes to abide on the plane where the creature’s deity resides. ... A soul can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be.
However, Revivify doesn't require the deceased soul to be willing. In fact, their soul isn't mentioned at all. I suspect that's deliberate. In 3.5e, the spell's description said it halted the soul's journey to the afterlife and returned it to the target's body before it had completely left. Maybe 5e dropped this text to avoid raising too many questions about the mechanics of dying?
also wish can cast revivify while ignoring the time restriction put on revivify. so yes you can use wish to revivify character whos been long dead.
Not as a "basic use" of replicating spells. When replicating spells you can ignore such things as components and casting time but the effect and any restrictions in the effect are replicated. The 1-minute limit is part of the effect. So, no Wish cannot "revivify" after the 1 minute. Not unless you want to use it as a non-basic wish resulting in stat-debuffs and 1/3 chance of losing the ability to cast wish by any means ever again.
The text you're thinking of is from DMG chapter 1:
When a creature dies, its soul departs its body, leaves the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, and goes to abide on the plane where the creature’s deity resides. ... A soul can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be.
However, Revivify doesn't require the deceased soul to be willing. In fact, their soul isn't mentioned at all. I suspect that's deliberate. In 3.5e, the spell's description said it halted the soul's journey to the afterlife and returned it to the target's body before it had completely left. Maybe 5e dropped this text to avoid raising too many questions about the mechanics of dying?
I don't see why the fact that revivify doesn't specify one way or the other would somehow override the fact that the DMG does specify an unwilling soul cannot be returned to life if it doesn't wish to be.
I dunno. If the soul isn't willing then forcing them back to life against their will is a bit of a dick move, to be fair. So, might as well just replicate Resurrection. Same benefit, 100 years is plenty, and no violating a spirit's will. If they want to be back, they're back, if they don't - then they are happy where they are and might as well let them be.
The reason why revivify doesn't need a willing soul is because it's only been a minute - they're not even had time to register that they're dead and by the earlier editions of lore they haven't even crossed over yet and aren't entirely dead. Basically Revivify is a magic equivalent to modern day resuscitation. Even in real life, it's possible to revive somebody who is physically dead if you're quick enough - it happened to me.
The only time, in my opinion, that Wish is worth the risk is if the soul is willing but currently held and unable to be resurrected normally. A wish can free the soul, allowing it to be resurrected.
I get that Revivify is intended as a Ctrl-Z on someone dying in combat, but if the party tried to revivify someone who they knew didn't want to come back, they wouldn't come back. The party can use Speak With Dead if they want a few words with someone who wishes to remain dead.
The Genie Warlock's Limited Wish feature would allow you to bypass such restrictions iirc. Additionally, the Mercy Monk's Hand of Ultimate Mercy doesn't care about the soul being free/willing as far as I remember. Just a few other examples. :)
Additionally, the Mercy Monk's Hand of Ultimate Mercy doesn't care about the soul being free/willing as far as I remember. Just a few other examples. :)
There is no mention of it, similar to Revivify, however, this is debateable and many would argue that it's not enough. The general rule is a soul must be willing to be resurrected. Now, this rule is general so it is possible for something specific to break this rule -- specific beats general. However, in order for something to be specific and break it the effect must actually state so. Neither Revivify or Hand of Ultimate Mercy actually state they can resurrect unwilling souls - and since they don't they lack the specificity needed to break the general resurrection rule.
So, really, no. The feature, nor revivify, currently allow rezzing an unwilling soul (even though in previous editions revivify did). However, I can see the wiggle room and arguments against this. EDIT: I realise this is my going back on what I said about revivify before, but that post was more about the lore given for its previous incarnations and also because I forgot about the general rule [again]).
However, at my table, rezzing against somebody's will is not permitted - and no spell or feature will make exception regardless of specifying such or not. Why? Because it would be broken, and can lead to some extremely disturbing thought patterns I don't want to deal with be it by lore or player. If you need info - use speak with dead, that's the point of that spell, after all. There's also other ways of getting info like Commune, Legend Lore, and others. So the only other "against will rezzing" reasons that are left are terrible, evil and disgusting. Hard pass.
Additionally, the Mercy Monk's Hand of Ultimate Mercy doesn't care about the soul being free/willing as far as I remember. Just a few other examples. :)
However, at my table, rezzing against somebody's will is not permitted - and no spell or feature will make exception regardless of specifying such or not. Why? Because it would be broken, and can lead to some extremely disturbing thought patterns I don't want to deal with be it by lore or player. If you need info - use speak with dead, that's the point of that spell, after all. There's also other ways of getting info like Commune, Legend Lore, and others. So the only other "against will rezzing" reasons that are left are terrible, evil and disgusting. Hard pass.
The text you're thinking of is from DMG chapter 1:
When a creature dies, its soul departs its body, leaves the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, and goes to abide on the plane where the creature’s deity resides. ... A soul can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be.
However, Revivify doesn't require the deceased soul to be willing. In fact, their soul isn't mentioned at all. I suspect that's deliberate. In 3.5e, the spell's description said it halted the soul's journey to the afterlife and returned it to the target's body before it had completely left. Maybe 5e dropped this text to avoid raising too many questions about the mechanics of dying?
I don't see why the fact that revivify doesn't specify one way or the other would somehow override the fact that the DMG does specify an unwilling soul cannot be returned to life if it doesn't wish to be.
The text you're thinking of is from DMG chapter 1:
When a creature dies, its soul departs its body, leaves the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, and goes to abide on the plane where the creature’s deity resides. ... A soul can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be.
However, Revivify doesn't require the deceased soul to be willing. In fact, their soul isn't mentioned at all. I suspect that's deliberate. In 3.5e, the spell's description said it halted the soul's journey to the afterlife and returned it to the target's body before it had completely left. Maybe 5e dropped this text to avoid raising too many questions about the mechanics of dying?
I don't see why the fact that revivify doesn't specify one way or the other would somehow override the fact that the DMG does specify an unwilling soul cannot be returned to life if it doesn't wish to be.
Just curious where in the DMG is that specified?
Chapter 1 > Magic In Your World > Bringing Back the Dead
The text you're thinking of is from DMG chapter 1:
When a creature dies, its soul departs its body, leaves the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, and goes to abide on the plane where the creature’s deity resides. ... A soul can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be.
However, Revivify doesn't require the deceased soul to be willing. In fact, their soul isn't mentioned at all. I suspect that's deliberate. In 3.5e, the spell's description said it halted the soul's journey to the afterlife and returned it to the target's body before it had completely left. Maybe 5e dropped this text to avoid raising too many questions about the mechanics of dying?
I don't see why the fact that revivify doesn't specify one way or the other would somehow override the fact that the DMG does specify an unwilling soul cannot be returned to life if it doesn't wish to be.
Just curious where in the DMG is that specified?
Chapter 1 > Magic In Your World > Bringing Back the Dead
Mechanic system which revivy is based on is logic and reality, and legal system we have in real life, as players most of us demand some amount of consistency. And in modern medicine we know that a patient is not immedeatly labeled as "dead" the moment his heart stops, and when you fail your death saves thrice, that is what happens, your heart stops, which means you can not wake up with your own regenerative qualities(provided that you are human or anatomically working on similar principles).
Yet, If a person experiences the "irreversible cessation of all functions of the brain," he or she is considered legally dead. So stopping of your heart does not mean you are considered dead from the perspective of law, and not suprisingly our fictional divine magic works through certain principles and laws as well, which is while you are called "dead" by players, you are not called "dead" by physicians in that single "minute". If the malfunction fatal/mortal damage causes can be stopped in time, than death can be averted, or a person who is called "dead" by some can be raised back, like in cpr. Revivify is can be considered similar to a complex form of first aid+cpr, and not to mention it is a "miracle". Even common man incapable of miracle can cure a person who is dead for a minute, we donét expect less from deities' and their instruments right?
It is not evil, as any one can simply commit suicide if they do not want to live. Besides, you call murderers evil, and label those who give you back your life as evil, you call any one infringing on your own will as evil yet you are infringing of something you can not, rejecting reality, having dreams or role playing is something you can obviously but that does not change the fact that real people are being revived after their hps drop to 0 in real life without their consent and they rarely whine about it, do you think you have right to reject reality? or do you think rejecting will change it?
You are attracted to what you do not know, think it is great. And what is worse, you label people who give you another chance as evil, and act as if your opinion is absolution. Seriously dude, i respect your idea that " people should have a say if they want to be ressurected or not" that is why we say that is how resurrection works that way, but i think you might trying to understand that revivify isn't ressurection. It simply saves your life within the last minute. If you want to die anyway no one is stopping you.
There are rules, as written, and they have meaning, an intention behind them, whether for good or evil, for profit or for charity, and there are "facts". This game is created for profit, not for charity as you already know. Do not try to twist and corrupt facts, we are not playing this game for profit.
Since the general rule is that a soul of a creature that died can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be and that Revivify doesn't specifically mention the soul didn't depart yet and work even if unwilling, i'd say it still doesn't work if the soul doesn't wish to.
Since the general rule is that a soul of a creature that died can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be and that Revivify doesn't specifically mention the soul didn't depart yet and work even if unwilling, i'd say it still doesn't work if the soul doesn't wish to.
This depends a lot on whether you consider the Bringing Back the Dead section of "A World of Your Own" to be an actual rule or not, since the entire chapter is really talking about how you bring the world to life, and customise it if you want to. The way it's written implies that the moment something is dead its soul is in another plane but that seems a bit extreme, especially when we know for a fact that ghosts are real, and that their creation can be tied to improper burial, so that seems to suggest there's at least some delay before the soul is actually gone.
Personally I tend to think of revivify as resuscitation; the creature is medically/mechanically "dead", but the soul has not yet departed, so anyone that wants to can put it back into the body and restore it to life. The caveat on willingness applies to the delayed forms of resurrection because the soul has actually had time to depart, and must be coaxed back, in which case it is aware of who is making the attempt and choose not to return.
Since the general rule is that a soul of a creature that died can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be and that Revivify doesn't specifically mention the soul didn't depart yet and work even if unwilling, i'd say it still doesn't work if the soul doesn't wish to.
This depends a lot on whether you consider the Bringing Back the Dead section of "A World of Your Own" to be an actual rule or not, since the entire chapter is really talking about how you bring the world to life, and customise it if you want to. The way it's written implies that the moment something is dead its soul is in another plane but that seems a bit extreme, especially when we know for a fact that ghosts are real, and that their creation can be tied to improper burial, so that seems to suggest there's at least some delay before the soul is actually gone.
I consider it the normal course for a soul's travel when most creature die. Exception exist with some undeads and spells that trap soul among other thing but its otherwise what normally happen to a dead soul. And the rule don't provide any timeline when the soul depart from the Prime Material plane but i would assume its instantaneous since its not noted otherwise.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, I feel like I read somewhere (in official RAW content) that spells such as revivify and the like cannot return an unwilling soul to its body. So say a PC dies and the cleric is on it like ASAP meeting all material and time restrictions. The DM would still have to consult the PC out of character to see if the soul should returns to the body or move on. If anyone can pull some info on this or give me a pg number, I am struggling to find where I saw this.
I cannot recall if the DMG has anything specific about death and resurrection in it and do not have access right now. If it does not then there is no set rule and it depends entirely on the specific method of revival.
Revivify does not need the soul to be willing: you can bring them back, even if they don't want to.
Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection require the soul to be willing and free.
Wish can bring somebody back in two ways: by replicating Revivify or Resurrection as needed. So if the target died within the last minute you can count it as Revivify and the character is returned to life, willing or not, but if it has been over that time it would be as a Resurrection (the highest spell of this nature Wish can replicate) which requires the soul to be willing. These count as "basic use" of Wish and have no negative consequences: they just work. However, you have the option of using Wish in the "non-basic" way, so you can bring back anyone who has ever died, no matter the length of time, be they willing or not, be the soul free or not. However this non-basic use carries 1-in-3 chance of rendering the caster unable to ever cast Wish again by any means and has negative stat consequences for multiple days. Also the result can be twisted or different than expected, as these non-basic uses are at DM's discretion.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
The text you're thinking of is from DMG chapter 1:
However, Revivify doesn't require the deceased soul to be willing. In fact, their soul isn't mentioned at all. I suspect that's deliberate. In 3.5e, the spell's description said it halted the soul's journey to the afterlife and returned it to the target's body before it had completely left. Maybe 5e dropped this text to avoid raising too many questions about the mechanics of dying?
Reincarnate also needs a willing soul!
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/reincarnate
also wish can cast revivify while ignoring the time restriction put on revivify. so yes you can use wish to revivify character whos been long dead.
Not as a "basic use" of replicating spells. When replicating spells you can ignore such things as components and casting time but the effect and any restrictions in the effect are replicated. The 1-minute limit is part of the effect. So, no Wish cannot "revivify" after the 1 minute. Not unless you want to use it as a non-basic wish resulting in stat-debuffs and 1/3 chance of losing the ability to cast wish by any means ever again.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
I don't see why the fact that revivify doesn't specify one way or the other would somehow override the fact that the DMG does specify an unwilling soul cannot be returned to life if it doesn't wish to be.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I mean usually its worth the risk if its like party beloved NPC or Player Character.
I dunno. If the soul isn't willing then forcing them back to life against their will is a bit of a dick move, to be fair. So, might as well just replicate Resurrection. Same benefit, 100 years is plenty, and no violating a spirit's will. If they want to be back, they're back, if they don't - then they are happy where they are and might as well let them be.
The reason why revivify doesn't need a willing soul is because it's only been a minute - they're not even had time to register that they're dead and by the earlier editions of lore they haven't even crossed over yet and aren't entirely dead. Basically Revivify is a magic equivalent to modern day resuscitation. Even in real life, it's possible to revive somebody who is physically dead if you're quick enough - it happened to me.
The only time, in my opinion, that Wish is worth the risk is if the soul is willing but currently held and unable to be resurrected normally. A wish can free the soul, allowing it to be resurrected.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
I get that Revivify is intended as a Ctrl-Z on someone dying in combat, but if the party tried to revivify someone who they knew didn't want to come back, they wouldn't come back. The party can use Speak With Dead if they want a few words with someone who wishes to remain dead.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The Genie Warlock's Limited Wish feature would allow you to bypass such restrictions iirc. Additionally, the Mercy Monk's Hand of Ultimate Mercy doesn't care about the soul being free/willing as far as I remember. Just a few other examples. :)
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Incorrect.
There is no mention of it, similar to Revivify, however, this is debateable and many would argue that it's not enough. The general rule is a soul must be willing to be resurrected. Now, this rule is general so it is possible for something specific to break this rule -- specific beats general. However, in order for something to be specific and break it the effect must actually state so. Neither Revivify or Hand of Ultimate Mercy actually state they can resurrect unwilling souls - and since they don't they lack the specificity needed to break the general resurrection rule.
So, really, no. The feature, nor revivify, currently allow rezzing an unwilling soul (even though in previous editions revivify did). However, I can see the wiggle room and arguments against this. EDIT: I realise this is my going back on what I said about revivify before, but that post was more about the lore given for its previous incarnations and also because I forgot about the general rule [again]).
However, at my table, rezzing against somebody's will is not permitted - and no spell or feature will make exception regardless of specifying such or not. Why? Because it would be broken, and can lead to some extremely disturbing thought patterns I don't want to deal with be it by lore or player. If you need info - use speak with dead, that's the point of that spell, after all. There's also other ways of getting info like Commune, Legend Lore, and others. So the only other "against will rezzing" reasons that are left are terrible, evil and disgusting. Hard pass.
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
That's a perfectly reasonable stance. :)
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Just curious where in the DMG is that specified?
Chapter 1 > Magic In Your World > Bringing Back the Dead
Link: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/a-world-of-your-own#BringingBacktheDead
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Spells | Magic Items | Feats
Need help with Homebrew? Check out this FAQ/Guide thread by IamSposta
See My Youtube Videos for Tips & Tricks using D&D Beyond
Thank you!
Mechanic system which revivy is based on is logic and reality, and legal system we have in real life, as players most of us demand some amount of consistency. And in modern medicine we know that a patient is not immedeatly labeled as "dead" the moment his heart stops, and when you fail your death saves thrice, that is what happens, your heart stops, which means you can not wake up with your own regenerative qualities(provided that you are human or anatomically working on similar principles).
Yet, If a person experiences the "irreversible cessation of all functions of the brain," he or she is considered legally dead. So stopping of your heart does not mean you are considered dead from the perspective of law, and not suprisingly our fictional divine magic works through certain principles and laws as well, which is while you are called "dead" by players, you are not called "dead" by physicians in that single "minute". If the malfunction fatal/mortal damage causes can be stopped in time, than death can be averted, or a person who is called "dead" by some can be raised back, like in cpr. Revivify is can be considered similar to a complex form of first aid+cpr, and not to mention it is a "miracle". Even common man incapable of miracle can cure a person who is dead for a minute, we donét expect less from deities' and their instruments right?
It is not evil, as any one can simply commit suicide if they do not want to live. Besides, you call murderers evil, and label those who give you back your life as evil, you call any one infringing on your own will as evil yet you are infringing of something you can not, rejecting reality, having dreams or role playing is something you can obviously but that does not change the fact that real people are being revived after their hps drop to 0 in real life without their consent and they rarely whine about it, do you think you have right to reject reality? or do you think rejecting will change it?
You are attracted to what you do not know, think it is great. And what is worse, you label people who give you another chance as evil, and act as if your opinion is absolution. Seriously dude, i respect your idea that " people should have a say if they want to be ressurected or not" that is why we say that is how resurrection works that way, but i think you might trying to understand that revivify isn't ressurection. It simply saves your life within the last minute. If you want to die anyway no one is stopping you.
There are rules, as written, and they have meaning, an intention behind them, whether for good or evil, for profit or for charity, and there are "facts". This game is created for profit, not for charity as you already know. Do not try to twist and corrupt facts, we are not playing this game for profit.
Since the general rule is that a soul of a creature that died can’t be returned to life if it doesn’t wish to be and that Revivify doesn't specifically mention the soul didn't depart yet and work even if unwilling, i'd say it still doesn't work if the soul doesn't wish to.
This depends a lot on whether you consider the Bringing Back the Dead section of "A World of Your Own" to be an actual rule or not, since the entire chapter is really talking about how you bring the world to life, and customise it if you want to. The way it's written implies that the moment something is dead its soul is in another plane but that seems a bit extreme, especially when we know for a fact that ghosts are real, and that their creation can be tied to improper burial, so that seems to suggest there's at least some delay before the soul is actually gone.
Personally I tend to think of revivify as resuscitation; the creature is medically/mechanically "dead", but the soul has not yet departed, so anyone that wants to can put it back into the body and restore it to life. The caveat on willingness applies to the delayed forms of resurrection because the soul has actually had time to depart, and must be coaxed back, in which case it is aware of who is making the attempt and choose not to return.
Characters: Bullette, Chortle, Dracarys Noir, Edward Merryspell, Habard Ashery, Legion, Peregrine
My Homebrew: Feats | Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Races
Guides: Creating Sub-Races Using Trait Options
WIP (feedback needed): Blood Mage, Chromatic Sorcerers, Summoner, Trickster Domain, Unlucky, Way of the Daoist (Drunken Master), Weapon Smith
Please don't reply to my posts unless you've read what they actually say.
I consider it the normal course for a soul's travel when most creature die. Exception exist with some undeads and spells that trap soul among other thing but its otherwise what normally happen to a dead soul. And the rule don't provide any timeline when the soul depart from the Prime Material plane but i would assume its instantaneous since its not noted otherwise.