You didn't have to alter the next like that, and─some personal advice─don't overthink this. Your "best guess" is exactly how it reads. The weapon can magically produce its own ammunition, but it can still accept actual ammunition. Which you need, if you want to use certain spells. Or maybe you get some magical ammunition. You should know any numerical bonuses stack. For example, a +1 longbow and +1 arrow work together for an effective bonus of +2. And the DM could always just whip up a neat bolt of slaying, or something else entirely.
Honestly, I cannot fathom how any of you are confused.
I'm not confused at all, I'm just saying that it is poorly written.
They chose to have a descriptive text instead of stating that it (possibly) ignores the ammunition property but for the loading property they instead explicitly state it is ignored. Using two different approaches within the same feature is a crappy idea.
But it doesn’t possibly ignore the ammunition property. If it did it would say so.
It's not poorly written. I said it in the post you quoted, though you excised it, and I'll say it again here.
If the intent was for the infusion to ignore the ammunitionproperty, it would say so. That language is omitted, so that's not the intent. It doesn't do that. There's no hidden rule to suss out. A thing does what it says it does, and that's it.
The infusion ignores the loading property, allowing it to be fired more than once per turn, but not the ammunitionproperty. An infused weapon can create its own ammunition, but it can also accept other ammunition for an additional effect. If you want to use said other ammunition, then you still need a free hand. For example, walloping ammunition is a common magic item and infusion available to all artificers. An artificer could then load their magical ammunition into their crossbow, at their leisure.
The ammunition property says that you expend ammunition, that you have to draw said ammunition and that you need a free hand to load it (if one-handed). Your argument is that the that infusion allows you to ignore all three but also that the property still applies and you think it isn't poorly written?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it should let you ignore the ammunition if you use actual ammunition (as it does for the loading property). But if the use of the "it produces its own" part of the infusion is meant to let you ignore all effects of the ammunition property then it should say clearly that it lets you ignore that property too, not just use some words that could possibly be interpreted to mean that.
It's not poorly written. I said it in the post you quoted, though you excised it, and I'll say it again here.
If the intent was for the infusion to ignore the ammunitionproperty, it would say so. That language is omitted, so that's not the intent. It doesn't do that. There's no hidden rule to suss out. A thing does what it says it does, and that's it.
The infusion ignores the loading property, allowing it to be fired more than once per turn, but not the ammunitionproperty. An infused weapon can create its own ammunition, but it can also accept other ammunition for an additional effect. If you want to use said other ammunition, then you still need a free hand. For example, walloping ammunition is a common magic item and infusion available to all artificers. An artificer could then load their magical ammunition into their crossbow, at their leisure.
The ammunition property says that you expend ammunition, that you have to draw said ammunition and that you need a free hand to load it (if one-handed). Your argument is that the that infusion allows you to ignore all three but also that the property still applies and you think it isn't poorly written?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it should let you ignore the ammunition if you use actual ammunition (as it does for the loading property). But if the use of the "it produces its own" part of the infusion is meant to let you ignore all effects of the ammunition property then it should say clearly that it lets you ignore that property too, not just use some words that could possibly be interpreted to mean that.
The property isn't being ignored. That's what you're failing to understand. I'm on my phone, so my options are limited. Hopefully the formatting turns out okay.
Repeating Shot
Item: A simple or martial weapon with the ammunition property (requires attunement)
This magic weapon grants a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it when it's used to make a ranged attack, and it ignores the loading property if it has it.
If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.
It's right there, in plain text, that the property isn't being ignored. The weapon gets a special ammunition options that comes with caveats.
If you still think the infusion is "possibly ignoring" anything, then you aren't reading what we are.
Nothing about the repeating shot infusion ignores or removes the ammunition property from the weapon. If you load ammunition into the weapon, you must do so in accordance with the ammunition property. If you don't load ammunition into the weapon, then the ammunition property does not require a free hand.
If you disagree with this, then fine. But we really don't need to go around in circles about it. I'm pretty sure everyone understands everyone else at this point.
I'm not going to scroll through EVERY page of this discussion to see if this was ever shown.... but... I'm not sure how this question is still being debated, 4 years later, after we were already given a very DIRECT answer to the question.
After reading though this post, I can see and understand the repeating shot makes arcane ammunition. But does it also create the propelling force to launch said ammunition. For example with a bow (regular or cross does not matter) the infusion will make the arrow/ bolt, and in the case of a bow you would pull the string and "dry fire" as part of the attack, but with a crossbow to load it you have to cock it before you fire, so does this infusion cock it ,or what if the bow string is broken does this still allow the bow to fire? Then with firearms does this infusion make the powder as well, or do you still have to load that and since it makes the ammo as part of the attack would the powder just fall out o(if it does not make it) since it has no ammunition to hold it in place? Then if this infusion would allow a string less bow/ uncocked crossbow or powder less gun to fire then could I infuse a stick (bow), board (crossbow) or a metal tube (for a firearm ) and have it function as the crafted version?
Yes, it makes the ammo. In the case of firearms it also makes the powder and wadding too, as that’s part of the ammo. Whether it cocks/draws for you or not is pure flavor and doesn’t matter mechanically. No, it wouldn’t work if the weapon is broken, but seeing as how there are next to no rules governing broken weapons it almost never happens in game.
Yes, it makes the ammo. In the case of firearms it also makes the powder and wadding too, as that’s part of the ammo. Whether it cocks/draws for you or not is pure flavor and doesn’t matter mechanically. No, it wouldn’t work if the weapon is broken, but seeing as how there are next to no rules governing broken weapons it almost never happens in game.
For simplicity's sake, I'm inclined to agree with you. That said, the firearm rules are (a) optional and (b) half-baked. We don't have a description for a bullet, and gunpowder is explicitly called out as a something necessary to propel a bullet. Presumably, if a horn is necessary then the bullet isn't a paper cartridge that includes powder. But then we should know how many shots a full horn can provide, and we don't. (Not without venturing back to the 3.5 DMG, and that's not canon to this edition.)
Yes, it makes the ammo. In the case of firearms it also makes the powder and wadding too, as that’s part of the ammo. Whether it cocks/draws for you or not is pure flavor and doesn’t matter mechanically. No, it wouldn’t work if the weapon is broken, but seeing as how there are next to no rules governing broken weapons it almost never happens in game.
For simplicity's sake, I'm inclined to agree with you. That said, the firearm rules are (a) optional and (b) half-baked. We don't have a description for a bullet, and gunpowder is explicitly called out as a something necessary to propel a bullet. Presumably, if a horn is necessary then the bullet isn't a paper cartridge that includes powder. But then we should know how many shots a full horn can provide, and we don't. (Not without venturing back to the 3.5 DMG, and that's not canon to this edition.)
There's a lot of information left to guesswork.
I just treat it as the mechanomagic that creates the ammo handles those details. It’s simpler that way. RAF and all that.
Not sure if anyone has said this but RAW the hand crossbow has the Ammunition AND the Loading property ... so while repeating shot allows a character to ignore the Ammunition property it does not allow you to ignore the loading property. The loading property requires you to have a free hand to load the weapon. If you want to pull off the trick of ignoring both the Ammunition property AND the Loading property you give your artificer the Crossbow Expert feat which allows a magical piece of ammo to appear in the bolt and then with your feat to pull back that bolt to load it.
Repeating Shot
Item: A simple or martial weapon with the ammunition property (requires attunement)
This magic weapon grants a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it when it’s used to make a ranged attack, and it ignores the loading property if it has it.
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But it doesn’t possibly ignore the ammunition property. If it did it would say so.
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The ammunition property says that you expend ammunition, that you have to draw said ammunition and that you need a free hand to load it (if one-handed). Your argument is that the that infusion allows you to ignore all three but also that the property still applies and you think it isn't poorly written?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it should let you ignore the ammunition if you use actual ammunition (as it does for the loading property). But if the use of the "it produces its own" part of the infusion is meant to let you ignore all effects of the ammunition property then it should say clearly that it lets you ignore that property too, not just use some words that could possibly be interpreted to mean that.
The property isn't being ignored. That's what you're failing to understand. I'm on my phone, so my options are limited. Hopefully the formatting turns out okay.
It's right there, in plain text, that the property isn't being ignored. The weapon gets a special ammunition options that comes with caveats.
If you still think the infusion is "possibly ignoring" anything, then you aren't reading what we are.
Nothing about the repeating shot infusion ignores or removes the ammunition property from the weapon. If you load ammunition into the weapon, you must do so in accordance with the ammunition property. If you don't load ammunition into the weapon, then the ammunition property does not require a free hand.
If you disagree with this, then fine. But we really don't need to go around in circles about it. I'm pretty sure everyone understands everyone else at this point.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I'm not going to scroll through EVERY page of this discussion to see if this was ever shown.... but... I'm not sure how this question is still being debated, 4 years later, after we were already given a very DIRECT answer to the question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw_ZdBUS5vg&t=900s
15 minutes in.
After reading though this post, I can see and understand the repeating shot makes arcane ammunition. But does it also create the propelling force to launch said ammunition. For example with a bow (regular or cross does not matter) the infusion will make the arrow/ bolt, and in the case of a bow you would pull the string and "dry fire" as part of the attack, but with a crossbow to load it you have to cock it before you fire, so does this infusion cock it ,or what if the bow string is broken does this still allow the bow to fire? Then with firearms does this infusion make the powder as well, or do you still have to load that and since it makes the ammo as part of the attack would the powder just fall out o(if it does not make it) since it has no ammunition to hold it in place? Then if this infusion would allow a string less bow/ uncocked crossbow or powder less gun to fire then could I infuse a stick (bow), board (crossbow) or a metal tube (for a firearm ) and have it function as the crafted version?
Yes, it makes the ammo. In the case of firearms it also makes the powder and wadding too, as that’s part of the ammo. Whether it cocks/draws for you or not is pure flavor and doesn’t matter mechanically. No, it wouldn’t work if the weapon is broken, but seeing as how there are next to no rules governing broken weapons it almost never happens in game.
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For simplicity's sake, I'm inclined to agree with you. That said, the firearm rules are (a) optional and (b) half-baked. We don't have a description for a bullet, and gunpowder is explicitly called out as a something necessary to propel a bullet. Presumably, if a horn is necessary then the bullet isn't a paper cartridge that includes powder. But then we should know how many shots a full horn can provide, and we don't. (Not without venturing back to the 3.5 DMG, and that's not canon to this edition.)
There's a lot of information left to guesswork.
I just treat it as the mechanomagic that creates the ammo handles those details. It’s simpler that way. RAF and all that.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Epic Boons on DDB
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale