Hi all, I have been talking with some friends and was curious if anyone has experimented with supplementing a rule where you can essentially use a Wand or other magical items spell as a prepared spell if it's on your class list. Then use your spell slots or the wands charges to cast the said spell. A specific case is a Wizard who knew Fireball got a wand of fireball, so though there isn't a direct ruling to support this we found, it kind of made sense that he could expend a spell slot through the wand.
Does this seem to broken? It does give him some versatility, but the wand is probably gonna be overused this way. What do y'all think?
I don't know necessarily how broken this would be in concept, but it's not really how wands are intended to work. Keep in mind that wands aren't treated the same as casting the spell yourself... the Dex Save DC for a wand of fireballs is a flat 15, and not modified based on the users' INT modifier or proficiency bonus. So there's intended to be a tradeoff there... you're accepting a lesser version of the spell in exchange for it not occupying your prepared spells or consuming your spell slots to cast.
Hi all, I have been talking with some friends and was curious if anyone has experimented with supplementing a rule where you can essentially use a Wand or other magical items spell as a prepared spell if it's on your class list. Then use your spell slots or the wands charges to cast the said spell. A specific case is a Wizard who knew Fireball got a wand of fireball, so though there isn't a direct ruling to support this we found, it kind of made sense that he could expend a spell slot through the wand.
Does this seem to broken? It does give him some versatility, but the wand is probably gonna be overused this way. What do y'all think?
This would definitely be broken in the scheme of 5e. A character's personal spell slots are only for spells that the character actually knows/has prepared*.
You mention wands, but scrolls would function the same way for that mechanic. They are also vastly easier to find/horde than wands. Would you really want to see characters that can potentially cast every spell on their class list(s)--somehow using their own power, despite not really knowing/preparing the spells--just because they have a backpack stuffed with scrolls that they never actually use? I know I wouldn't. 🤷♂️
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Edited for clarity. Thanks for the heads up. Distinction is minor, but meaningful.
End result is the same: spell slots are only intended to be used with spells that the character has actually prepared for use as the final step of their individual class spellcasting ability dictates. For some classes (like Sorcerer), a spell learned/prepared is the same thing, but it's this final state of "what spell(s) can I actually cast today?" that is meant to be a hard limit.
A Wizard can potentially learn every single spell that is on the Wizard class spell list, but they can only use what they have prepared. Having a scroll on hand does not constitute a prepared spell. There are 298 spells (not including cantrips) that appear on the Wizard spell list. The maximum number of spells a Wizard--level 20, with 20 Intelligence--can prepare is 25.
Would we really want a Wizard that can cast up to an extra 273 unique spells on the fly?
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Maybe an interesting compromise would be you would have to expend a charge or scroll and use spell slots to augment the energy,
Wand of Magic Missile and expend one charge and channel 2 spell levels (2nd level slot) to boost it to a 3rd level spell. This way the items are not just a category of additional spells I can have 'prpared' but are used up but augmented by lower level spell slots which may go unused?
Scrolls and charges are already consumed when you use those items. Wands typically regain some charges each day.
I feel like the compromise here is to accept no compromise at all. Spellcasting is already extremely powerful. Spellcasting rules exist to keep that power in check. Wands, scrolls, etc already provide avenues for casters to go beyond their normal limitations--within reason.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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Hi all, I have been talking with some friends and was curious if anyone has experimented with supplementing a rule where you can essentially use a Wand or other magical items spell as a prepared spell if it's on your class list. Then use your spell slots or the wands charges to cast the said spell. A specific case is a Wizard who knew Fireball got a wand of fireball, so though there isn't a direct ruling to support this we found, it kind of made sense that he could expend a spell slot through the wand.
Does this seem to broken? It does give him some versatility, but the wand is probably gonna be overused this way. What do y'all think?
I don't know necessarily how broken this would be in concept, but it's not really how wands are intended to work. Keep in mind that wands aren't treated the same as casting the spell yourself... the Dex Save DC for a wand of fireballs is a flat 15, and not modified based on the users' INT modifier or proficiency bonus. So there's intended to be a tradeoff there... you're accepting a lesser version of the spell in exchange for it not occupying your prepared spells or consuming your spell slots to cast.
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Sounds like you’re describing how wands used to work (2nd edition?) if I remember correctly
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This would definitely be broken in the scheme of 5e. A character's personal spell slots are only for spells that the character actually knows/has prepared*.
You mention wands, but scrolls would function the same way for that mechanic. They are also vastly easier to find/horde than wands. Would you really want to see characters that can potentially cast every spell on their class list(s)--somehow using their own power, despite not really knowing/preparing the spells--just because they have a backpack stuffed with scrolls that they never actually use? I know I wouldn't. 🤷♂️
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
@Sigred the premise from the OP would be only for spells you already know.
Edited for clarity. Thanks for the heads up. Distinction is minor, but meaningful.
End result is the same: spell slots are only intended to be used with spells that the character has actually prepared for use as the final step of their individual class spellcasting ability dictates. For some classes (like Sorcerer), a spell learned/prepared is the same thing, but it's this final state of "what spell(s) can I actually cast today?" that is meant to be a hard limit.
A Wizard can potentially learn every single spell that is on the Wizard class spell list, but they can only use what they have prepared. Having a scroll on hand does not constitute a prepared spell. There are 298 spells (not including cantrips) that appear on the Wizard spell list. The maximum number of spells a Wizard--level 20, with 20 Intelligence--can prepare is 25.
Would we really want a Wizard that can cast up to an extra 273 unique spells on the fly?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Maybe an interesting compromise would be you would have to expend a charge or scroll and use spell slots to augment the energy,
Wand of Magic Missile and expend one charge and channel 2 spell levels (2nd level slot) to boost it to a 3rd level spell. This way the items are not just a category of additional spells I can have 'prpared' but are used up but augmented by lower level spell slots which may go unused?
Scrolls and charges are already consumed when you use those items. Wands typically regain some charges each day.
I feel like the compromise here is to accept no compromise at all. Spellcasting is already extremely powerful. Spellcasting rules exist to keep that power in check. Wands, scrolls, etc already provide avenues for casters to go beyond their normal limitations--within reason.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.